| AlexLikeRock | is a milkl smoothie | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| AlexLikeRock | hahaha | 00:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | in my desperation , : | 00:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | junmp from ASCII , to beowolf | 00:02 |
| AlexLikeRock | then by problems with "MOUNT" JUMP TO CHIMAERA | 00:02 |
| AlexLikeRock | problem with MOUNT conthinues THEN JUMP to daedalus | 00:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | then | 00:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | i chickened out | 00:03 |
| gnarface | maybe the update is just incomplete? | 00:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | and put it back to chimaera | 00:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | YES | 00:04 |
| gnarface | "apt-get update && apt-get --no-install-recommends dist-upgrade" | 00:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | its F*** dissarter ! | 00:04 |
| gnarface | you're not supposed to downgrade | 00:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | and one mo think , to blow your mind | 00:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | they con from 32 bit | 00:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | i migrate from 32 bit to 64 bit | 00:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH | 00:06 |
| gnarface | hmm, lots of opportunities for dependency mess there | 00:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 00:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | like this | 00:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | ¿agree? [Y/n/q/?]y | 00:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | the new ones : | 00:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | libinput-bin | 00:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | Se delete los siguientes paquetes: | 00:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | libinput-bin:i386{a} | 00:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | i have alot of files at i386 XDDDD | 00:09 |
| gnarface | hmm, so it is probably trying to replace the i386 one with the amd64 one because you didn't enable multi-arch ? just a guess | 00:09 |
| AlexLikeRock | well , yes, now my pcs are a 64 bit | 00:09 |
| gnarface | maybe you should go through pkginfo.devuan.org and check the version of every package to make sure it's the right one for chimaera | 00:09 |
| gnarface | and also i guess make sure it's the 64-bit one... | 00:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | but i feel dager by now remplace all at one ,, | 00:10 |
| gnarface | yea, seems dangerous. you should probably make a backup first.... | 00:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | I prefer to replace little by little | 00:10 |
| gnarface | you probably should have made a backup before doing any of this in fact... | 00:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | i can not make a backup | 00:10 |
| gnarface | :( i'm sorry | 00:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | i dont hace free space | 00:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | thats why im try to fix bby days | 00:11 |
| gnarface | maybe if you enable multi-arch it will be easier because then you can have amd64 and i386 packages installed concurrently, and you can just remove the ones you want... | 00:13 |
| gnarface | still, seems very risky | 00:13 |
| gnarface | also, that'll use more space so you'll have to keep an eye on it | 00:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, libinput-bin its now install at 64 bit , let me try reboot | 00:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 00:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | bye the way | 00:17 |
| AlexLikeRock | gnarface, | 00:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | when start the OLD DEVUAN | 00:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | say : | 00:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | user@(none):$ | 00:18 |
| gnarface | that means you didn't define a hostname | 00:19 |
| gnarface | it's set by /etc/init.d/hostname.sh from the contents of /etc/hostname | 00:19 |
| gnarface | though i've seen some other stuff pull it from /etc/hosts too | 00:20 |
| gnarface | you should have both set correctly | 00:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/hostname = they hace a name | 00:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | sexy | 00:20 |
| gnarface | oh, you did bring this up before, i remember... not sure why it wouldn't work though | 00:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/init.d/hostname.sh | 00:21 |
| gnarface | is it possible your init system isn't running /etc/init.d/hostname.sh at boot? | 00:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | 127.0.0.1 localhost | 00:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | #127.0.0.1 sexy | 00:22 |
| gnarface | see what happens if you run it manually then reopen the terminal | 00:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | hosts | 00:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, let me copy the script | 00:22 |
| gnarface | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Aug 27 2016 /etc/rcS.d/S01hostname.sh -> ../init.d/hostname.sh* | 00:23 |
| gnarface | you'll also need this symlink^ | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | its at /etc/init.d/ | 00:25 |
| gnarface | i think i mentioned this last time, but depending on your dhcp server and client, it might override your host name configuration | 00:26 |
| gnarface | but if you're not using dhcp, you should put your static ip in /etc/hosts as the hostname sexy | 00:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | i foiund it | 00:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/rcS.d/S07hostname.sh | 00:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | mmmmmm | 00:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, whats unistall? | 00:28 |
| gnarface | dunno, that should have been installed already from the "initscripts" package | 00:28 |
| gnarface | you're using sysvinit, right? | 00:28 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 00:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | how to reinstall init | 00:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | ? | 00:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | 00:29 | |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/rcS.d/S07hostname.sh: 16: .: cannot open /lib/init/vars.sh: No such file | 00:29 |
| gnarface | ah, that's from the package sysvinit-utils | 00:30 |
| gnarface | you'll need that too | 00:30 |
| gnarface | as well as sysvinit and sysvinit-core, i assume | 00:30 |
| gnarface | also sysv-rc | 00:30 |
| gnarface | that begs the question of what you were using as an init before though... | 00:31 |
| gnarface | you have a live iso on hand to recover with if this goes sideways, don't you? | 00:31 |
| AlexLikeRock | i foud a lost script : http://paste.debian.net/1320293/ | 00:38 |
| AlexLikeRock | Thanks so much | 00:38 |
| AlexLikeRock | gnarface | 00:38 |
| AlexLikeRock | !!!! | 00:38 |
| AlexLikeRock | do you like my script ? | 00:39 |
| gnarface | heh, yea that's great | 00:39 |
| AlexLikeRock | hehehehe | 00:39 |
| gnarface | not sure how that fixes your problem, but it's something anyway | 00:39 |
| AlexLikeRock | i put at /etc/rcS.d/ | 00:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | yesh , wait | 00:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | i copy 2 scripts | 00:40 |
| gnarface | it should actually be in /etc/init.d/ but with a symlink from /etc/rcS.d/ | 00:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | from new dev uan to old devuan | 00:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | /lib/init/init-d-script and /lib/init/vars.sh | 00:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | OK, ITS TIME TO eat | 00:44 |
| AlexLikeRock | thankns so much for your help today , towmorrow , i will come , if my baby let me do it | 00:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | heheheh | 00:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | o/ | 00:45 |
| darwin | trying to boot Devuan installer on an old PC with a Radeon RX 5700 XT... still got messed-up graphics like on anything newer... but I thought this card was from 2010s and still the installer kernel can't run it? | 09:08 |
| darwin | had to do vga=ask | 09:08 |
| rrq | yes, it's actually pretty recent that the installer vga setting got changed to use 800x600 rather than the previous 640x480... devuan followed debian on that and maybe the idea was that nowadays "all" systems are capable of 800x600 | 09:30 |
| darwin | i'm installing Devuan on spare PC now | 09:31 |
| rrq | enjoy :) | 09:31 |
| darwin | how can I rollback to classic Thunderbird Mail that still had UNIX MoveMail/mailspool? | 09:36 |
| darwin | just installed Devuan on our third desktop but seems to not have zfsutils-linux available, so I can't access my /home drive | 14:36 |
| rrq | in contrib | 14:39 |
| rrq | daedalus-backports/contrib for 2.2.4 | 14:39 |
| darwin | ok | 14:44 |
| darwin | so far it always halts (overheats) building zfs 'dkms'... isn't there a way to force it to use fewer cores/jobs/threads like you can on Slackware? Might have to switch that desktop | 14:51 |
| darwin | the CPU is only FX-8350... simply can't run that many jobs of this size without that problem | 14:54 |
| darwin | or can I maybe rsync the kernel from the other desktop? | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | darwin, try cpulimit to slow things down and run cooler. | 15:27 |
| opty | hi, just migrated from bullseye to chimaera :) | 15:44 |
| opty | i guess i don't have to reboot before upgrade to daedalus if i already used sysvinit etc. before the migration | 15:46 |
| opty | and i don't need to start eudev during boot in a container | 15:50 |
| rustyaxe | darwin: i've had to use cpufreq-set -u (to set max frequency) on my CPU cores on hot days, it might be worth a try. | 16:14 |
| opv | Hi all! I would like to know if it's still possible to migrate from Debian to Devuan, in this case Bookworm to Daedalus. Thank you | 18:44 |
| Xenguy | opv, Hi | 19:02 |
| Xenguy | It is possible, yes | 19:02 |
| Xenguy | What version of Debian are you running? | 19:03 |
| Xenguy | Oh sorry, missed that | 19:03 |
| opv | That is awesome, thank you | 19:04 |
| Xenguy | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/bookworm-to-daedalus | 19:04 |
| opv | systemd truly is a cancer upon the ecosystem | 19:04 |
| Xenguy | opv, If you use those instructions, please report back how things went for you, so we can constantly improve the documentation | 19:05 |
| cousin_luigi | opv: May I ask what pushed you back to sysv? | 19:08 |
| Xenguy | Meanwhile, thank you fsmithred and rustyaxe , there's an application I use that has been CPU hungry lately. I tried cpulimit just now, and it seems to work nicely so far for constraining the process to a reasonable limit, keeping the CPU temperatures away from dangerous levels | 19:13 |
| rustyaxe | welcome. It gets over 90degF indoors if i let the server run full steam in the summer :o | 19:15 |
| Xenguy | Wow, that's hot indeed (usually the most I have to deal with is 86 or so, which is hot enough) | 19:19 |
| opv | cousin_luigi: to be honest, I've started looking for alternatives years ago, but I still run Debian on some servers | 19:28 |
| opv | The XZ fiasco, and now the systemd-tmpfile-home thing, really is the last straw. | 19:29 |
| opv | I consider systemd to be akin to microsoft products in that their production use can no longer be justified | 19:29 |
| fsmithred | note that if you have multi-cores, you can set cpulimit to greater than 100%. | 19:33 |
| cousin_luigi | opv: Was xz systemd-specific? | 19:46 |
| cousin_luigi | And I have no idea what the other is | 19:47 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, My knowledge of cores is weak, but my goal is to limit the application from consuming 100% CPU, which drives up the temperature to levels that feel too high for comfort | 19:50 |
| fsmithred | run top then press 1 to see how many cores/threads you have | 19:51 |
| fsmithred | so if you have a dual-core, setting a process to 100% will let it use half your computing power. | 19:52 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, I see CPUs numbered 0 to 3 | 20:01 |
| Xenguy | But now that I think of it, it's not so much the 'cores' issue, as the temperatures being reported by 'sensors' | 20:02 |
| fsmithred | quad-core or dual-core with hyperthreading | 20:02 |
| Xenguy | In the end I don't want to see temperatures approaching 'critical' levels | 20:02 |
| opv | cousin_luigi: yes, xz specifically targetted systemd. it was super sneaky on multiple levels like that | 20:02 |
| opv | the other one is a new functionality which lets it manage tmpfiles and homefiles | 20:02 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, Okay makes sense | 20:02 |
| fsmithred | knowing how many cores lets you know how much percentage you can use | 20:02 |
| opv | where just now they've had a beautiful bug which would nuke /home if you tell it to clean tmpfiles | 20:03 |
| Xenguy | Again, sensors reports temperatures approaching 'critical', and that is worrisome | 20:03 |
| fsmithred | cpulimit -e <program> -l <percentage> | 20:04 |
| Xenguy | But cpulimit is delivering lower temperatures as promised, so that's a clear win, even if I haven't optimized things perfectly | 20:04 |
| GeDaMo | systemd is now replacing sudo, I'm sure there's no way that could go wrong | 20:05 |
| opv | completely unacceptable | 20:05 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, Thanks, appreciate the cpulimit option, it's exactly what I was looking for, and needed | 20:05 |
| fsmithred | if you run it before the program starts, it will wait for it | 20:06 |
| Xenguy | GeDaMo, Funnily enough I just removed sudo, 'just in case' | 20:06 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, Hrm, good to know, yeah I was wondering what the easiest workflow was, cos I'm going to be using it on a regular basis with this application I expect | 20:07 |
| fsmithred | you could make a wrapper script for it | 20:08 |
| fsmithred | afk, bbl | 20:14 |
| cousin_luigi | opv: Are you sure that's not a question of convenience due to its widespread adoption? | 20:39 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, My cheat: alias qb='qbittorrent && cpulimit -e qbittorrent -l 50' | 20:47 |
| opv | cousin_luigi: the xz thing? no, they found out it was tailored to be triggered by systemd on ssh login | 20:58 |
| opv | quite literally the mother of 0days as far as classic servers are concerned | 20:59 |
| Xenguy | opv, But IIRC it was some 'smart' config set up by Debian, no? | 21:08 |
| Xenguy | That linked systemd and ssh somehow? | 21:08 |
| darwin | thanks | 21:20 |
| opv | Xenguy: yes, but that's not exclusive to Debian, that's just another systemd tentacle that happened to be specifically targetted | 22:14 |
| opv | Distros like Fedora and Arch were just as affected, aswell as upcoming Rocky etc | 22:15 |
| opv | I don't remember the specific name of the systemd-something, but it hooks into the login process | 22:16 |
| darwin | how can I select only 1/8 threads and cpulimit apt-get install zfsutils? It just says the process died | 22:17 |
| gnarface | cgroups maybe? (not sure, sorry, just a guess) | 22:20 |
| darwin | you don't need that for cpulimit but apparently can't just have it run another program as an argument/flag/switch. I started but didn't press 'y' then got the process number in another terminal and passed that to cpulimit | 22:25 |
| darwin | even with 1/8 threads it halted apparently from overheating... so there's some other program I can us for this, maybe cpufreq also? | 22:26 |
| darwin | maybe I need to 'repaste' CPU? | 22:27 |
| gnarface | well if it's even overheating at that point, you might want to make sure the fans are still working.... | 22:27 |
| gnarface | but how i'd usually handle this is set the cpufreq governor to "powersave" which will just lock all cores to minimum clock speed | 22:27 |
| gnarface | (then i'd get the air conditioner repaired) | 22:28 |
| gnarface | if you have a situation where your rig is even overheating in powersave mode, you've got a physical problem with your cooling system, either in the rig itself or in the environmentals | 22:29 |
| gnarface | like, maybe a disconnected heatsinc or a melted cpu fan or something | 22:29 |
| darwin | 'use' | 22:29 |
| gnarface | ? | 22:30 |
| darwin | i hadn't pressed the last key | 22:31 |
| gnarface | oh | 22:31 |
| gnarface | cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor | 22:32 |
| gnarface | compare that to "cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors" | 22:32 |
| gnarface | (those are your current options but there may be more supported by kernel modules in /lib/modules/`uname -r` that you simply haven't loaded) | 22:33 |
| gnarface | (you should be able to find them with: find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -iname '*cpufreq*') | 22:34 |
| darwin | i didn't find that exact directory/folder | 22:37 |
| darwin | there was /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpuidle/available_governors | 22:38 |
| darwin | which said ladder, menu | 22:38 |
| darwin | it is about time for a fan checkup on that desktop. It's not a hot day but I have a few computers in one area | 22:39 |
| darwin | maybe I should shut the rest off though they're idling | 22:39 |
| gnarface | darwin: hmm, strange...what kernel version? | 22:42 |
| gnarface | darwin: and what cpu? | 22:42 |
| darwin | FX-8350 | 22:44 |
| darwin | it's old which might be part the problem | 22:44 |
| gnarface | nope | 22:44 |
| gnarface | what does "uname -a" say? | 22:44 |
| darwin | the system-board model is 13 years old, not very powerful | 22:44 |
| gnarface | it's the exact same cpu i'm using right now, i know the capabilities quite well | 22:45 |
| gnarface | what does "uname -a" say? | 22:45 |
| darwin | Linux <hostname> 6.1.0.21-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.90-1 (2024-05-03) x86_64 GNU/Linux | 22:45 |
| darwin | i am not IRCing from that one | 22:45 |
| gnarface | weird, current kernel... you should be seeing the same thing i'm seeing | 22:45 |
| gnarface | unless... hmm, do you have "quiet & cool" disabled in the bios? if so, that's probably your entire problem here | 22:46 |
| darwin | i didn't type out the hostname because it's long and kind of irrelevant | 22:46 |
| gnarface | yea i don't care about your hostname dude that's fine | 22:46 |
| darwin | i don't know if it has that setting... old BIOS... it's an ASUS Sabertooth 990FX | 22:46 |
| gnarface | are you fucking trolling me? | 22:46 |
| * gnarface facepalm | 22:47 | |
| * gnarface sighs | 22:47 | |
| darwin | no | 22:47 |
| darwin | i will check | 22:47 |
| gnarface | yes, i know that motherboard has that feature | 22:47 |
| gnarface | don't ask how | 22:47 |
| darwin | it's been a long time since I opened that BIOS | 22:47 |
| darwin | i forgot I hadn't recently | 22:48 |
| gnarface | every single asus bios going back well before that one has had the "quiet&cool" feature, but the important thing to understand is it's just your regular normal cpufreq feature. if you disable that, you have no speed controls and it just runs at redline 100% of the time | 22:48 |
| darwin | so I change it to 'always enabled'? | 22:48 |
| gnarface | it should have default profile settings under ittoo | 22:49 |
| gnarface | enable it and set the profile to performance | 22:49 |
| darwin | should I enable power down modes for storage and RAM also? | 22:49 |
| gnarface | (note that's "performance" for the fan speeds, not to be confused with the cpufreq "performance" governor) | 22:50 |
| darwin | i wasn't sure about these settings; used to have PCs that would enter hibernation/suspend and not come out, or I thought would be stuck in quiet mode. I remember you or someone said it should be called 'cool or quiet' | 22:50 |
| gnarface | yea, i said that | 22:51 |
| gnarface | but the only other option is always hot | 22:51 |
| gnarface | i don't think the other stuff will matter in this context | 22:51 |
| gnarface | do whatever you want with it | 22:51 |
| gnarface | uh... darwin note i always view it in "advanced" mode, i don't think the default interface you see when you enter the bios has all the controls, not sure what you're looking at right now | 22:53 |
| darwin | i always set advanced mode | 22:54 |
| darwin | i set that... just forgot it was a different desktop (burnt out) I did this on recently | 22:54 |
| darwin | or maybe not burnt out but hardware failed, was pretty old | 22:54 |
| gnarface | when you have it set right, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies will contain 5 different speeds | 22:55 |
| gnarface | if you've been running them without cpu frequency controls, that might have been affecting the failure rates | 22:56 |
| darwin | yes | 22:56 |
| gnarface | they get hot, and you really need the fans, i would recommend not using stock coolers, get something aftermarket and large | 22:56 |
| gnarface | (if you want to keep them longer, that is) | 22:57 |
| darwin | before water cooling I usually used CoolerMaster Hyper Evo 212 | 23:00 |
| darwin | but I think this one is older than those | 23:00 |
| darwin | it has something else, medium-sized | 23:00 |
| darwin | maybe I can put a bigger one on but I think we're retiring that 13-year old design hardware as soon as I rebuild my main PC and the spare PC | 23:00 |
| darwin | i see | 23:09 |
| darwin | ever after BIOS changed from easier-to-navigate text mode before windows 1995 to forced GUI, they added so many options that some disappear on newer updates then even more options appear, often poorly-documented... I looked most up but forgot but some never found much information on either. It's just too difficult to remember all these settings... but I think I've done this 'cool & quiet' one enough times now I'll remember it until we have newer ones | 23:11 |
| darwin | great, adding that setting let me compile it so I can now mount /home HDD! :) | 23:15 |
| gnarface | cool | 23:17 |
| gnarface | glad it worked out for you | 23:17 |
| gnarface | darwin: by the way, make sure you have acpid installed on there too | 23:30 |
| darwin | ok | 23:37 |
| darwin | is an FX-8350 still going to be enough for xterm, file manager, text (editing, email, Usenet, IM/IRC), viewing (magazine, comic book), audio (XMMS or Audacious or DeadBeef), maybe one or a few web browser tabs all at once on Devuan 5? | 23:40 |
| darwin | the main bottleneck was web browsers which now are using a hundred or several hundred MB per webpage, but it only has 32GB RAM, and I used to have 100+ tabs but won't be opening all those on this | 23:41 |
| gnarface | yea, it's fine. i even game on it. new CPUs are overrated. | 23:45 |
| gnarface | what you really want is a SSD, but not the samsung evo ones, because there's a stupid bug with the bios that requires you to disable concurrent queries or whatever they're called (they're overpriced anyway) | 23:46 |
| darwin | i see | 23:47 |
| gnarface | most the stuff these days that still drags is gonna be stuff that's GPU bound | 23:47 |
| gnarface | if you've got a decent GPU in there and plenty of ram you should be fine | 23:48 |
| darwin | i have SSDs/M2/NVMe for OS when I can and HDDs for /home | 23:48 |
| gnarface | good enough | 23:48 |
| gnarface | keep the swap on the HDDs, don't swap on SDD | 23:48 |
| darwin | ok | 23:48 |
| gnarface | but with that much ram you might want to consider using zram for swap | 23:48 |
| darwin | but with 32GB or 64GB do you even need swap? I read higher than 4GB you don't need it | 23:48 |
| gnarface | well, technically yes, but of course the more ram you have the less likely you are to get into a situation where it's a problem, but without swap stuff will still crash if it runs out | 23:49 |
| gnarface | so you're gambling on literally never running out of ram | 23:49 |
| gnarface | (which might be a tall order if you're playing World of Warcraft) | 23:50 |
| darwin | i tend to not play commercial games but I do other stuff that can use up all RAM in a while | 23:50 |
| gnarface | well, firefox is a ram pig, but even so you'll need to open a lot of tabs to run out of 32G unless it's also leaking | 23:51 |
| gnarface | i can't frankly imagine a workflow with over 100 tabs though, so maybe firefox will be the thing that it can't handle | 23:51 |
| gnarface | for me, it handles what i need it to do, but my needs are fairly modest | 23:52 |
| gnarface | you might want to review your RAM speed settings in the bios just to make sure you're not wasting good ram if you have good ram | 23:53 |
| gnarface | i didn't like what their optimized/auto-detected profiles did, and ended up just dialing in the spec speeds statically | 23:53 |
| gnarface | (their supposedly auto-optimized profiles fell short of the speeds on the product label) | 23:55 |
| gnarface | you asked about the ram and drive sleep/suspend state settings? i don't remember what i set for those | 23:56 |
| gnarface | i never sleep the computer | 23:56 |
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