| rrq | (famous last words :) | 00:57 |
|---|---|---|
| darwin | The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: 'NO_PUBKEY 47981EA73D0E1C63 Hit:24 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease Hit:25 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security InRelease Hit:26 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates InRelease' and just about everything else sometimes/randomly | 12:03 |
| rrq | whose key is that? | 12:10 |
| rrq | LibreWolf Maintainers <gpg@librewolf.net> ... | 12:15 |
| rrq | if you put their repository in sources list then you'll alse need to add their key | 12:16 |
| rrq | perhaps they have instructions about that | 12:16 |
| djph | ... shame that apt-key got deprecated, that made this part easy | 12:16 |
| darwin | can I copy all keys from another Devuan PC that doesn't have this problem? | 12:16 |
| darwin | yes :( | 12:16 |
| darwin | and something else got deprecated before that... it's a mess | 12:17 |
| rrq | I think the issue is rather your sources.list | 12:17 |
| darwin | this happens on every Debian-based install for years, so we might have to try something else | 12:17 |
| djph | just, y'know, download the key and stuff it off in ... oh what's it, /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ ? | 12:17 |
| rrq | yes a binary key in there should work | 12:17 |
| djph | I mean, it's not a difficult task, it's just that it requires a little more manual work now than apt-key did | 12:18 |
| djph | note to self, write an "apt-keyng" script that just does that bit easy like | 12:19 |
| darwin | it's the same sort of thing large software corporations and large websites do when they change things and believe users will like it (but 90% won't) | 12:19 |
| djph | the problems with apt-key warranted its removal though | 12:19 |
| rrq | I think it's about to change.. to use /usr/share/keyrings and /etc/apt/kerings instead but I'm not sure what and when | 12:20 |
| djph | er deprecation | 12:20 |
| djph | well, yeah, IIRC, 'trusted.gpg.d' still has some of the "it's a bit of a global allowlist" issue that apt-key had. | 12:20 |
| darwin | i rsynced /etc/apt/sources.list* from a Devuan PC that doesn't have this problem... the one that had the problem still does | 12:20 |
| djph | sources.list doesn't contain gpg keys | 12:21 |
| darwin | i also rsynced /etc/apt/trusted.gpg ... same problem | 12:21 |
| rrq | did that rsync include --delete ? | 12:21 |
| darwin | yes | 12:22 |
| djph | this is a 2 second fix, look at the librewolf entry, and see what key it's referencing | 12:22 |
| djph | and go grab that file ... | 12:22 |
| darwin | and the ones that it says NO_PUBKEY seem random | 12:22 |
| darwin | it's not just LibreWolf | 12:22 |
| djph | so then grab ALL of the missing keyfiles. | 12:23 |
| darwin | it's maybe 15 different ones, random each time | 12:23 |
| djph | *sigh* | 12:23 |
| darwin | well, I just did from the other PC | 12:23 |
| darwin | i did also download some of them as .asc and install them | 12:24 |
| rrq | do you use a proxy? | 12:24 |
| darwin | no | 12:24 |
| rrq | and this happens with "apt-get update" after fixing the sources.list* to be correct? | 12:24 |
| darwin | this time it was Google Earth, WaterFox, but not LibreWolf (though still in /etc/apt/sources.list.d ) | 12:25 |
| darwin | yes | 12:25 |
| darwin | next time it might not be some of these rather than other; tried this about 10 or 20 or 30+ times today | 12:25 |
| rrq | so sources.list* includes other than devuan repository points? | 12:25 |
| darwin | no | 12:26 |
| darwin | not sources.list , but sources.list.d | 12:26 |
| darwin | same on both PCs | 12:26 |
| rrq | so you need to have the associated keys for those repository points as well | 12:26 |
| rrq | it all concerns the signings of the various InRelease files from the repository points | 12:27 |
| darwin | didn't keys used to be somewhere else when you installed them with gpg? | 12:38 |
| darwin | like gpg --keyserver 'keys.openpgp.org' --recv-keys 662E3CDD6FE329002D0CA5BB40339DD82B12EF16 | 12:39 |
| djph | those would get stuffed into your keyring | 12:40 |
| darwin | i only use a physical keyring | 12:40 |
| djph | OK .. | 12:44 |
| ZeeNeep | Goodmorning. | 15:47 |
| ZeeNeep | On windows I had to downgrade to nvidia470 drivers in order to use a version of ollama built for my gpu. (reason) i cant seem to get nvidia470 and cuda5 (not12) installed on devuan, one or the other ends up being whats in the repo. Is there a right way to install nvidia470/cuda5 on devuan daed? >:D | 15:50 |
| djph | It's probably a case of "download both from nVidia, and get compiling" | 15:52 |
| ZeeNeep | After numerous attempts I can get one of those installed, but then the other results in chaos. attempted nvidia470 then cuda toolkit then visa versa. >:D | 15:53 |
| ZeeNeep | Thats where I get stuck, One install acts like the other install is bad and wants to get rid of it and somehow I end up with 470/cuda12 or 535/cuda5 | 15:54 |
| ZeeNeep | I can see the 470 drivers I want in bullseye repos. I dont think thats the way though. | 15:54 |
| ZeeNeep | *bows* | 15:56 |
| rrq | seems like both of those are in chimaera | 15:58 |
| darwin | i figured it out | 15:59 |
| UsL | 'memory test' on 'daedalus-live boot menu' is missing it says. I was just curious what would show. | 16:04 |
| UsL | refractainstaller-wrapper.sh isn't an executeable | 16:09 |
| fsmithred | UsL, the name is wrong | 16:10 |
| fsmithred | huh? | 16:10 |
| fsmithred | you can't start the graphical installer? | 16:10 |
| UsL | I can chmod it x I guess | 16:10 |
| UsL | oh, I didn't see the window. I could mark it executeable. There is refracta running now. | 16:11 |
| fsmithred | oh just the desktop file is not executable? | 16:12 |
| UsL | yeah, the install devuan icon on the desktop that points to it wasn't an executeable it said. But the dialouge window asked nicely. | 16:13 |
| UsL | I just didn't see it first. All good now. | 16:13 |
| fsmithred | That seems to happen with the desktop icons in live iso and I've also seen it in new installs. | 16:16 |
| fsmithred | not just the installer icon | 16:16 |
| Alverstone | By the way why not Calamares installer? AFAIK it is the best of what is available today | 16:26 |
| UsL | wow, I haven't done this in ages.. If I want english locale, but not all the sub par ISO units/standards that comes with it. Is that smthng I can fix afterwards | 16:28 |
| UsL | I have a faint memory of doing it, just not where or how | 16:33 |
| djph | UsL: you mean leaving most of the locale bits to "local" customs, but just changing hte language? | 16:39 |
| UsL | yes. | 16:40 |
| djph | pretty sure that's doable by setting LANG or LANGUAGE and leaving the other stuff alone | 16:45 |
| UsL | yeah, that's the faint memory I have of it. I've been doing dist-upgrades for far too long. Need to brush up every now and then.. | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | dpkg-reconfigure locales ; dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration ; dpkg-reconfigure tzdata | 17:07 |
| fsmithred | ^^^ you might want to do some of those | 17:07 |
| fsmithred | there's also setxkbmap to set the keyboard on the desktop | 17:08 |
| greenjeans | timely subject, just added a menu entry last night to one of my projects to reconfigure the keyboard, thanks fsmithred I stole a couple lines from Installer to make it pretty, never knew about the "fgnome" arg | 17:10 |
| fsmithred | lol | 17:11 |
| greenjeans | re-did my tzdata calendar command too, much nicer now | 17:11 |
| greenjeans | plus I kinda just enjoy typing "fgnome", lol | 17:11 |
| fsmithred | I recall disabling the fgnome bit because it made windows that went off-screen | 17:11 |
| fsmithred | well, just the buttons went off-screen | 17:12 |
| greenjeans | yikes | 17:12 |
| greenjeans | works great now though | 17:12 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that name does have a certain appeal | 17:12 |
| fsmithred | it might need a hyphen | 17:12 |
| greenjeans | F-gnome, yep that's even better ;) | 17:13 |
| greenjeans | Only thing that bugs my OCD, is the first window that pops up, it's window title is "Unnamed window", the subsequent windows have appropriate window-titles, but that's in the config scripts somewhere | 17:20 |
| UsL | ah, thanks, fsmithred. My memory starts to comeback now (dpkg-(stuff)) I'll add this to my own documentation now. | 17:22 |
| UsL | what is a normal mem usage from a live daedalus install with xfce? | 19:05 |
| UsL | I remember ascii. It used 290 MB on a 4 GB RAM system. | 19:05 |
| UsL | This is also a 4 GB system and it's currently on 730 MB ram usage. No windows/programs opened. | 19:07 |
| greenjeans | I don't use xfce, but in Mate it's about 650-670 mb at idle | 19:14 |
| greenjeans | My openbox stuff does better, about 500-550 | 19:15 |
| greenjeans | My original jessie-based Openbox Devuan's idled at around 125-130 | 19:15 |
| greenjeans | It also depends on how mem usage is getting measured | 19:16 |
| greenjeans | What shows in task manager is different from what shows in my conky display | 19:17 |
| UsL | indeed. So, xfce is more demanding than mate now? That's kind of a bummer. Xfce used to be lean | 19:27 |
| greenjeans | Lot depends on how many other programs are installed in addition to the main architecture, my openbox mini idles at around 450, while the max jumps to 550 or so | 19:29 |
| greenjeans | My machine is old too, that might have some bearing on ram usage, older slower ram and cpu | 19:30 |
| UsL | I have 190 processes running. I guess I could trim that down some. Probably somethings I have no use for on this client system | 19:35 |
| XFaCE | "landley" was here? | 19:45 |
| XFaCE | Rob Landley? | 19:45 |
| XFaCE | Anyway, I successfully bootstrapped Devuan to a ZFS pool via Slackware... other than some keyring messing-around it was fine | 19:46 |
| XFaCE | Quite pleasant indeed | 19:46 |
| n4dir | openbox idling with 500 MB sounds like a lot. fluxbox here idles at like 130, perhaps 150. xfce should be like 400. | 19:51 |
| UsL | n4dir: I am almost double that.. | 19:56 |
| n4dir | i didn't fully understand which DE or WM | 19:57 |
| UsL | xfce | 19:57 |
| n4dir | and you use the mentioned 730 MB right after starting it? | 19:58 |
| UsL | yes | 19:58 |
| n4dir | well, first of all i am on old-stable. Also i might have had refracta in mind, regarding those 400 MB. Let me quickly exit fluxbox and check | 19:58 |
| UsL | it's okay. I still have 2 GB left | 19:59 |
| greenjeans | It depends on how you set up Openbox, lots of folks set it up to be super-lightweight, mine are in contrast VERY cushy for OB. | 19:59 |
| n4dir | UsL: htop reports 360 MB, ps_mem.py 226 | 20:00 |
| greenjeans | And again, that's just what conky is reporting, conky itself takes 10-20 mb itself when running | 20:00 |
| n4dir | not sure if i disabled a heck lot, it's been ages i used xfce | 20:00 |
| gnarface | i thought that any given live image would be expected to use something greater than 100% of the size of the live image itself in memory? | 20:01 |
| gnarface | because basically to boot it's gotta uncompress the whole thing and load it into a ram disk | 20:01 |
| greenjeans | task manager on my OB installs shows much less, 275-350 or so | 20:01 |
| gnarface | hmmm.... | 20:01 |
| greenjeans | only if you choose install to ram at prompt | 20:01 |
| greenjeans | standard live only loads basic components | 20:02 |
| greenjeans | then loads other stuff as needed | 20:02 |
| gnarface | what about swap? i was a aware that at some point live images were able to use the default swap partition, are we sure the rest just isn't ending up there? | 20:02 |
| gnarface | i did not hear about this "only loading parts you use" thing, with regard to live images | 20:03 |
| greenjeans | yep, that's the default load, you have to choose load to ram at the isolinux or syslinux boot screen to get a full load | 20:04 |
| greenjeans | weirdly enough, my projects when booted live, actually use less ram at idle than installed versions do | 20:04 |
| greenjeans | Everything does run quicker if you load it all to ram, nice and quick, especially if you compressed with zstd | 20:05 |
| UsL | okay, I may not been completely truthful there. I did enable some widgets in the panel like temps and network activity. Apparently those gobble up a bunch. | 20:06 |
| n4dir | yeah, the stuff in the xfce panel uses quite a bit, the ones i checked. Probably in all other panels, like mate and stuff, as well | 20:07 |
| UsL | yes, every one use about ~30-25 MB and I loaded in 5 of them | 20:07 |
| n4dir | also i don't use a display-manager, which uses RAM all the time too. | 20:07 |
| UsL | yikes. | 20:07 |
| n4dir | so in general i use the PC to use really as little as possible. | 20:08 |
| n4dir | stuff like the panel-plugins and the display-manager i gave up so long ago, i didn't remember it earlier anymore | 20:08 |
| greenjeans | I use conky for that instead of panel widgets | 20:09 |
| UsL | yeah.. Xorg is 110 and xfwm4 98 | 20:09 |
| n4dir | which web-browser you use? (you said your machine has 4 Gigs, right?) | 20:10 |
| UsL | I might install conky. This was a bit excessive.. | 20:10 |
| UsL | firefox. | 20:11 |
| n4dir | works ok, kinda, i assume? | 20:11 |
| UsL | sure. I haven't liberated it yet. | 20:11 |
| UsL | But still does okay | 20:11 |
| UsL | : ) | 20:11 |
| n4dir | i got 4 Gig machines, one perhaps even 3, and it kinda is ok, but it is half a year ago i booted any of those. Regaring firefox | 20:12 |
| n4dir | all the rest works well anyway | 20:12 |
| greenjeans | my machine is 4 gigs too, in practice I almost never max out the ram, even with a lot of tabs open | 20:13 |
| UsL | and then you open a single youtube tab and awaay we goo | 20:14 |
| n4dir | i see. I don't use more than 4 or 5 tabs anyway. So i wouldn't know | 20:14 |
| greenjeans | uuugh, youtube, yeah I stay away | 20:14 |
| UsL | but, yeah. yt-dlp and that fancy terminal thing I saw will fix that | 20:14 |
| greenjeans | Talk about websites that bog down, try using Home Depot's website sometime...arrgh it's bad | 20:18 |
| djph | yup | 20:23 |
| XFaCE | hagbard: plasma41: I think I'll stick with usr-merge off for now with Daedalus | 20:39 |
| XFaCE | Unless there's a compelling reason to switch now? | 20:39 |
| gnarface | there's not, and half the packages in excalibur just re-copy themselves back into /bin and /sbin to unbreak themselves anyway | 20:40 |
| gnarface | it's a stupid massive waste of time | 20:41 |
| hagbard | It think it does not hurt to do the usrmerge, and it is easier to do that from the beginning, than later. | 20:42 |
| XFaCE | gnarface: Yes, but have you considered if I up and decided to turn Devuan into an immutable system for no good reason? | 20:42 |
| plasma41 | XFaCE: usr-merge is a prerequisite of migrating from Daedalus to Excalibur, but AIUI, Daedalus works unmerged. | 20:42 |
| XFaCE | Yeah, the default for deboostrap is still no usr merge for daedalus | 20:43 |
| gnarface | XFaCE: i'm not clear on whether that matters or not | 20:44 |
| XFaCE | gnarface: I was alluding to the core reasons why usr-merge is being pushed on the corporate level | 20:44 |
| XFaCE | plasma41: Also... given the less than stellar reputation of migrations between Debian stable releases, at that point I'd probably reinstall | 20:45 |
| XFaCE | Though that comes from reputation mentioned by others rather than personal experience, so please let me know if that fear is unwarranted | 20:46 |
| gnarface | i think in the case of usrmerge, the fear is warranted. i'm just counting on the world ending before i'll have to deal with it. | 20:47 |
| XFaCE | Sorry, I should mention the "fear" in this case is in regards to oldstable->stable upgrades, not usr-merge in particular | 20:48 |
| XFaCE | usr-merge doesn't make me afraid as much as annoyed | 20:48 |
| XFaCE | My conclusion is outside immutable distro frameworks it's a mostly pointless semantic change for non-immutable distros | 20:49 |
| gnarface | i classify it as vandalism | 20:51 |
| XFaCE | gnarface: Lennart Standard Base | 20:54 |
| golinux | gnarface said ". . . i'm just counting on the world ending before i'll have to deal with it." | 21:03 |
| golinux | at 82, I am familiar with that line of thinking . . . | 21:04 |
| golinux | But I think the odds are we'll have to deal with it sooner or later . . . | 21:04 |
| djph | golinux: what're you dealing with? | 21:15 |
| gnarface | we're talking about usrmerge, and whether it's advisable to allow it on a daedalus install or not | 21:17 |
| gnarface | since as of daedalus it's still optional | 21:17 |
| gnarface | so the question is whether to get it out of the way before the next release upgrade, or just wait | 21:18 |
| UsL | ok, I am a bit confused. doing apt update -> apt upgrade -y and then grub asks me where to install it self. /dev/sda and/or /dev/sda1 | 21:35 |
| gnarface | you usually want /dev/sda | 21:36 |
| UsL | right. | 21:37 |
| UsL | but, shouldn't grub now that | 21:38 |
| gnarface | it doesn't know whether you want to install/update grub for the whole machine or just this one install | 21:39 |
| UsL | ah, I see. | 21:39 |
| gnarface | grub can boot to other grubs | 21:39 |
| UsL | sure can. | 21:39 |
| UsL | thanks, I'll run downstairs and continue the configuration and polish.. | 21:39 |
| gnarface | np | 21:40 |
| DPA | People still use the old bios boot method instead of EFI?!? | 21:41 |
| gnarface | i still do, lots of old machines still out there... | 21:41 |
| gnarface | lots more that still allow "legacy" boot mode, and it usually causes less problems | 21:42 |
| gnarface | UsL: it's not EFI, is it? | 21:42 |
| fsmithred | FWIW, I did a debootstrap install of ascii when it was still in testing and it was a year before I noticed that I had merged usr | 21:42 |
| fsmithred | on the other hand, I got bitten by it in the past week building a live-iso. At the end of the build, two custom scripts get copied to /lib/live/config/ and that wiped out the symlink. | 21:43 |
| fsmithred | there were just the two scripts in that directory. All the rest were in /usr/lib/live/config but they didn't run. | 21:44 |
| UsL | oh, yeah. Old 2009 laptop. It's a wonder what an ssd can do to those old machines | 21:46 |
| UsL | no efi insight : ) | 21:46 |
| fsmithred | I have a 32-bit netbook I still use for some things. | 21:46 |
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