| freem | it's such a long time I have not used a gtk3 application... that I never noticed one of gnome people had the bright idea to make mouse wheels act the invert of what is logical to any non-gnome person, and sadly solvespace still only provides a gtk3 interface. Is there is a way to make gtk3 applications sane, without installing gnome's bloat? I'm pretty sure last time I used it it behaved the sane way, which was in 2022 apparently. Or maybe someone | 05:01 |
|---|---|---|
| freem | knows which gtk3 version got *this* insane, so I could downgrade gtk libs to the last least broken one? | 05:01 |
| freem | I will never understand why they keep breaking everyone's applications instead of just gnome, as they should | 05:02 |
| * freem really need to get rid of the few remaining gtk applications he uses | 05:03 | |
| onefang | I'm still annoyed at what they did to the latest version of meld. | 05:04 |
| freem | I use xxdiff, works well enough for me, and integrates well in my i3 based workflow | 05:04 |
| freem | qt is certainly not perfect and clearly bloated, but at least it does not behaves in stupid ways | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | vim has a diff, and so does emacs, no? | 05:05 |
| freem | and I'm pretty sure it will never, because they have to pay their developpers | 05:05 |
| freem | probably, and? | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | So why use this gtk crap then? | 05:06 |
| freem | to use a graphical application, which happen to allow better usage of screen space since everything does not have to be the width of a unicode character? | 05:07 |
| freem | s/unicode/monospace/ | 05:07 |
| Xenguy | Ok, have fun with that then | 05:07 |
| freem | I don't use meld anyway | 05:07 |
| Xenguy | I wonder how kdiff3 is faring? | 05:07 |
| freem | and my question is not about diffing neither | 05:07 |
| freem | solvespace is *really* a great application, it's only default is to depend on gtk | 05:08 |
| Xenguy | Well someone else can answer your question I'm sure | 05:08 |
| freem | which was a sane choice, back in time | 05:08 |
| Xenguy | Things change, sometimes that sucks, yada yada | 05:08 |
| freem | yes | 05:08 |
| freem | especially stuff gnome people touch | 05:08 |
| Xenguy | You got that right | 05:09 |
| freem | I did read a fun joke recently, something about gnome people willing to "optimise for small screens" | 05:09 |
| freem | pretty sure they didn't meant small resolutions :D | 05:09 |
| freem | something about screens which are 1" wide, with a resolution of 4096x4096 | 05:10 |
| Xenguy | The Neil Young lyrics come to mind (but this is getting dangerously offtopic): "But I hate them worse than lepers, and I kill them in their cars" | 05:10 |
| freem | hehe | 05:10 |
| freem | I honestly don't understand why distros keep installing gnome by default | 05:10 |
| freem | it is as if people wanted to keep as much people *away* from open source OSes | 05:11 |
| freem | but yeah, offtopic :) | 05:11 |
| Xenguy | Probably time for me to get depressed and listen to On The Beach again; don't the GNOME folks get you down, it's only something turning, find someone who's turnin', and you will come around | 05:11 |
| Xenguy | I run GNOME2, aka MATE | 05:12 |
| Xenguy | Everything after that was total crap | 05:12 |
| Xenguy | Everything GNOME I mean | 05:12 |
| freem | oh, since we're talking about that kind of stuff, anyone knows a decent replacement for gparted? It *was* great, when it was gtk2. I do know about fdisk and cfdisk, and use the last one in my scripts, but gparted was comfy to do things quickly and in the lazy way | 05:14 |
| freem | now, any single gparted button takes half my screen, and it even refuses to start as root | 05:15 |
| rwp | I only ever use the text partition tools. cfdisk mostly, sfdisk, sgdisk, parted | 05:15 |
| freem | A tool to manipulate the partitions, refusing to run as root, so that you *have* to go through whatever crap they decided is better, but still gives UID0 rights to the app | 05:16 |
| onefang | Daedulas gparted is still fine, is this a later version? | 05:16 |
| freem | I love the idea that root user is NOT allowed to do whatever they want... :D | 05:16 |
| freem | ah, no, I didn't tried devuan's yet | 05:16 |
| freem | good point, it might very well be circumvented by the systemd removal | 05:16 |
| onefang | I used it earlier today. | 05:16 |
| freem | yeah, nope | 05:17 |
| freem | # gparted | 05:17 |
| freem | (gpartedbin:14595): Gtk-WARNING **: 05:17:19.672: cannot open display: | 05:17 |
| freem | might be because since 1 or 2 debian versions, not using `su -l` will prevent to find most programs | 05:18 |
| rwp | So let me see (checks notes) you are complaining about gparted in #devuan but haven't actually tried the devuan version yet? | 05:18 |
| freem | # LANG=C gparted | 05:18 |
| freem | bash: gparted : commande introuvable | 05:18 |
| freem | sigh | 05:18 |
| freem | rwp: is not devuan using, like, 99% of debian packages untouched? | 05:19 |
| freem | anyway, behavior's the same | 05:19 |
| freem | also yeah, I don't sudo | 05:19 |
| freem | not on a single-user system, that is | 05:19 |
| rwp | Yes the same as Debian but that wasn't clear from what you said. I was worried we were coming from one of the many others. | 05:19 |
| freem | no, you were right, I didn't tried it 5min earlier, and thus gave it a try. | 05:20 |
| rwp | And yes if you want gparted you will need to install it first. | 05:20 |
| freem | same result as what I remember | 05:20 |
| freem | lol | 05:20 |
| freem | I thought I could just imagine a command and run it as root? | 05:20 |
| onefang | sudo make me a sandwich | 05:21 |
| unclouded | okay | 05:21 |
| freem | so, what is the name of previous devuan? | 05:22 |
| freem | I'll just install the gtk dev libs which were sane and call it a day | 05:22 |
| freem | well, sane... less insane, rather | 05:23 |
| freem | hm... now that I think about it, I did noticed solvespace started some migration to gtk4... | 05:23 |
| freem | I should try the repo version for a start, and then just get back to last sane commit | 05:24 |
| freem | and report the bug to solvespace devs | 05:24 |
| freem | yes, that's the stuff | 05:25 |
| freem | from repo, so without recent commits, it behaves sanely | 05:25 |
| freem | (and using the source is useful as there are perf improvements which are nice in this kind of tools) | 05:25 |
| freem | a17fb15 GTK: Handle smooth scrolling according to the documentation | 05:27 |
| freem | smelly commit | 05:27 |
| freem | nailed it. | 05:29 |
| gnarface | i want to port everything back to gtk2 | 05:30 |
| gnarface | that wasn't the worst change to gparted dependencies though | 05:31 |
| freem | well, I got solvespace working sanely anew by reverting 2 gtk4 related commits... how surprising | 05:31 |
| freem | I still use and love mtpaint, which *is* a gtk2 app | 05:31 |
| freem | I'm way too dumb to use gimp, such a simple tool is more than enough for me | 05:32 |
| golinux | There is a Daedulas? News to me . . . | 06:14 |
| onefang | Well, if we had easier to spell names... | 06:15 |
| yeti | I just use release numbers in my notes | 08:34 |
| yeti | (not only for devuan) | 08:34 |
| rwp | I am almost but mostly converted to using release numbers too now. | 08:36 |
| unclouded | Like Devuan 5 you mean? That way I can't spell daedalus wrong. | 08:42 |
| yeti | \o/ | 08:50 |
| rwp | Numbers FTW! LOL | 09:00 |
| * freem is lost with numbers, names are easier to remember | 09:00 | |
| rwp | Devuan is nice because like Ubuntu names are alphabetical. Unlike Debian which are randomly selected. | 09:01 |
| rwp | At least with Devuan we know the order. Even if someone has made a typo and spelled it incorrectly. | 09:01 |
| freem | so devuan started with a name with z? | 09:02 |
| freem | 5=Daedalus, 4=Ceres (IIRC?), 3=B?, 2=A?, 1=??? | 09:03 |
| onefang | Started with Jessie, coz that was the Debian name at the time, | 09:03 |
| onefang | likely before we switched to our naming scheme. | 09:03 |
| freem | jessie... so old already | 09:03 |
| freem | time flies | 09:03 |
| onefang | ASCII and Beowulf are the ones you are missing. | 09:04 |
| freem | ah, thx | 09:05 |
| onefang | Excalibur is the next one. | 09:06 |
| onefang | Oh Ceres is our testing, Chimaera is 4. | 09:07 |
| freem | ah | 09:07 |
| freem | wait... if Ceres is testing, how can Excalibur be the next? | 09:07 |
| freem | maybe you meant sid/unstable? | 09:08 |
| onefang | Testing / unstable. I can never recall which way around they ga. lol | 09:08 |
| onefang | https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 09:10 |
| rwp | Ceres is Unstable. Never released. Always the today's bleeding edge. | 09:10 |
| rwp | Ceres == Sid. Sid is the Toy Story kid next door who tortures the toys. It's always the bleeding edge. | 09:11 |
| freem | yep | 09:11 |
| freem | testing is next, so have the next's codename | 09:11 |
| freem | in debian, and I would naturally imagine devuan doing the same | 09:11 |
| onefang | Did you look at that page? | 09:12 |
| freem | I just did | 09:12 |
| freem | what I meant is that basically I am not surprised by it's content | 09:12 |
| onefang | Ah. | 09:12 |
| freem | since devuan *does* the same as debian on this regard | 09:12 |
| freem | which is a sane choice since otherwise it wuold make the forking more complicated to handle for no benefit :) | 09:13 |
| MarcFP | hello | 21:46 |
| MarcFP | are anyone aviable ? | 21:48 |
| MarcFP | i have 2 basic questions | 21:48 |
| MarcFP | the first one is not properly of linux, becouse i have troubles with grub2 and windows 10, i have installed windows 10 at my old ssd disc, next to debian 12. My problem is when i try to update my grub configuration for attach windows 10 boot option... i can't attach windows 10 boot option correctly. Until now i have success adding debian 12 boot | 21:51 |
| MarcFP | option at devuan system .... but i can't attach windows 10 boot option. | 21:51 |
| golinux | Please just ask and be patient | 21:52 |
| MarcFP | Can anyone show me what i'm doing wrong ? thank's and excuse my poor english skill | 21:52 |
| paculino | Can you use the efibootmgr package to handle Windows boot? Then you will enter the UEFI boot menu when you restart and then you can choose, but you won't be able to choose Windows from grub | 22:05 |
| paculino | I do it that way (I cannot access the internal drive with Windows from the external drive without it... not that I've done that this year) | 22:06 |
| gnarface | well if MarcFP comes back, someone tell them to try to stay connected longer | 22:46 |
| drizzt | indeed | 23:32 |
| drizzt | (I do not have connect/disconnect messages anymore) | 23:32 |
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