| golinux | Question about the "banned packages list". Are they banned because there are insurmountable entanglements and they CAN'T be forked or because they aren't worth the effort. | 16:39 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | IOW is the metric technical or judgmental . . . | 16:40 |
| LeePen | golinux: which banned list are you asking about? | 16:51 |
| golinux | LeePen: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 17:05 |
| golinux | I didn't know that there was more than one list . . . | 17:06 |
| LeePen | The actual banned list is just 'systemd, systemd-sysv, file-rc, reportbug-ng' | 17:08 |
| LeePen | The list that you refer to is produced by amprolla as it recursively excludes anything else that has those as a dependency. | 17:10 |
| LeePen | Or as a result of the source being forked already. | 17:10 |
| LeePen | The item in [] after the package explains why it is banned. | 17:11 |
| LeePen | e.g apticron-systemd.[systemd] | 17:12 |
| LeePen | or bsdextrautils.[d1src:util-linux] | 17:12 |
| LeePen | Actually reportbug-ng and file-rc have disappeared from Debian, so the basic banned list is just systemd and systemd-sysv. | 17:14 |
| LeePen | Everything else follows as a consequence. | 17:14 |
| LeePen | So, technical. | 17:15 |
| golinux | So a hard dependency on 'systemd, systemd-sysv' is the reason. | 17:15 |
| golinux | ? actually | 17:16 |
| LeePen | Yes, either directly or indirectly. | 17:16 |
| golinux | Thank you. That answers a question asked on D1G. | 17:17 |
| golinux | Well maybe more brought up in a roundabout way | 17:18 |
| golinux | I will copy this conversation directly in response. | 17:18 |
| mason | Indirect dependencies are something I'm still wrapping my head around. | 20:42 |
| mason | LeePen: Is there an explanation suitable for mere mortals that describes https://sources.debian.org/src/apt/2.7.7/debian/control/#L45 in usable detail? I ran into it the last time I wanted to build stuff without the libsystemd0 dependency. | 20:44 |
| LeePen | See dh_shlibdeps and dpkg-shlibdeps. | 20:49 |
| LeePen | Basically a hook to allow the shared libs required by executables to be declared as package dependencies. | 20:50 |
| LeePen | If it is empty it is removed. | 20:50 |
| LeePen | So it Just Works. | 20:51 |
| LeePen | Devuan's apt has no libsystemd0 dep. | 20:52 |
| mason | LeePen: Ah, is that newish then? I didn't realize. | 20:53 |
| mason | But anyway, thank you for the pointers. | 20:53 |
| LeePen | No, longstanding | 20:53 |
| mason | LeePen: Is it feasible to run Devuan with no libsystemd0 or libelogind0 then? | 20:54 |
| mason | Last time I spun up a new one I remember that still being an issue. | 20:54 |
| LeePen | If you want a basic system, probably. | 20:55 |
| mason | Ah, my memory is a bit hazy then: https://bpa.st/JFCA | 20:55 |
| mason | Either that or I haven't tried since moving that system to Daedalus. | 20:55 |
| LeePen | My daily driver is now seatd, consolekit and sway. | 20:55 |
| mason | I'm not yet ready to embrace Wayland, but the other two are encouraging. :) | 20:56 |
| mason | I should look at why openssh-server still depends on libelogind0, especially given OpenSSH's origins. | 20:57 |
| LeePen | Yes. | 20:57 |
| LeePen | Devuan's xorg no longer requires elogind either. | 20:58 |
| mason | That particular server is my local package repository, so it's not as diverse as a workstation of course. There's probably more. | 20:58 |
| mason | Oh, interesting. | 20:58 |
| LeePen | It can use seatd as an alternative via libseat0. | 21:00 |
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