| papa | My continuing adventures trying to install Daedalus 5.0 on an old Core i7 desktop PC ... | 06:18 |
|---|---|---|
| papa | I have tried installing from both Live Desktop and Netinstall DVDs, tried installing with all but absolutely essential USB devices removed, but the problem remains the same. Install completes normally, first boot starts fine, but when the logon manager starts I get a featureless solid blue screen. With the Live Desktop I get the default desktop | 06:25 |
| papa | wallpaper, but no Xfce widgets and only a small context menu (right-click) with "Create Launcher...", "Open Terminal Here", and a few other choices. | 06:25 |
| freaxeh__ | you should be installing 5.0.1 | 06:27 |
| papa | I believe the problem is that Devuan is displaying the X desktop larger than my display, so all the Xfce widgets are there, but off the edge of my physical screen. | 06:27 |
| papa | It is 5.0.1. | 06:28 |
| gnarface | papa: the blue screen seems weird, but if the screen is rendering the wrong size that should be easy to fix with a static xorg.conf | 06:28 |
| gnarface | i still wonder if maybe you're just missing some critical driver/firmware/mesa package, though that doesn't sound like the type of hardware that typically needed such things | 06:29 |
| papa | The normal X video mode switching Ctrl-Alt-Num+/Num- don't work. | 06:29 |
| gnarface | i honestly don't know if it should still be expected to in your case | 06:29 |
| gnarface | you need to create an xorg.conf that has your desired resolutions and refresh ranges all dialed in manually | 06:30 |
| papa | I think the blue screen might be the logon manager with the user input box pushed off the edge of the display. | 06:30 |
| gnarface | hmm, you could try changing login managers.... | 06:30 |
| gnarface | did you ever try setting your resolution statically in grub? | 06:30 |
| gnarface | i mean after instasll | 06:31 |
| gnarface | *install | 06:31 |
| gnarface | i think you tried that on the live iso but i don't recall hearing if you put it in the installed version, that might be the simplest fix, otherwise it's time for you to create an xorg.conf | 06:31 |
| papa | No, because the display is fine through the boot process until the login manager. The grub video parameter only affects the display before X starts, doesn't it? | 06:32 |
| gnarface | no, that's old news; since the 'modesetting' driver became the default for intel video, it's expected to inherit that value all the way through the kernel console right into X | 06:32 |
| gnarface | - when everything's working right, anyway | 06:33 |
| gnarface | (of course, when everything's working right you shouldn't even have to set it, but any number of display or connectivity hardware compatibility problems might cause this) | 06:33 |
| gnarface | well, you can skip it and go right to xorg.conf if you want, i was just trying to suggest the easiest possible solution first | 06:35 |
| papa | How do I give the parameter to grub? | 06:35 |
| gnarface | there's a config file at /etc/default/grub | 06:35 |
| gnarface | see if it has this line uncommented first: GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX="keep" | 06:36 |
| papa | Oh, so it's not something I can just punch in at boot time? | 06:36 |
| gnarface | and if it has this line, make sure it is commented: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="nomodeset" | 06:36 |
| gnarface | uh... there might be a format to punch this in at boot time actually, but i forget exactly | 06:36 |
| gnarface | there should be comments in that file and it shouldn't be hard to find documentation about it | 06:37 |
| gnarface | it's all pretty distro-agnostic grub basics | 06:37 |
| papa | In /etc/default/grub there is no line with GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX. GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX is not commented-out, but set to "". GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT is set to "quiet". | 06:44 |
| papa | There is a commented line #GRUB_GFXMODE=640x480. I think I should try uncommenting that. | 06:45 |
| gnarface | papa: yea, try it, and also remove "quiet" | 06:47 |
| gnarface | (just so you can see what's actually going on) | 06:47 |
| papa | Rebooting... | 06:48 |
| gnarface | oh, and i forget for sure, but i think you may have to run "update-grub" as root after editing that file | 06:48 |
| gnarface | but if it auto-detected right at boot, like you said, then the resolution just went whacky sometime after that on its way to handing off to X, then you might merely have had to add the line GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX="keep" and nothing else | 06:49 |
| papa | OK. Reboot results were same as before. | 06:49 |
| gnarface | yea, try GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX="keep" | 06:50 |
| gnarface | and this time make sure to "update-grub" once just for good measure | 06:50 |
| gnarface | you said the grub menu comes up at the right resolution, right? | 06:50 |
| gnarface | without quiet now, can you see if the boot text console after grub is the same resolution or does it change visibly to something whack? | 06:51 |
| papa | Rebooting... | 06:53 |
| papa | The GRUB menu and first boot messages were displayed at 640x480, then the console output switched to a higher resolution (same as Devuan does on my normally working laptop, and the same as it has on previous boot of Devuan on the desktop). Login manager results in same solid blue screen. | 06:57 |
| papa | I know that it is the login manager because if I press Tab, type my login, Enter, then my password, my Xfce session starts. | 06:58 |
| gnarface | hmm,... is that login manager in question "slim" by any chance? if so, one shot in the dark we can try is to just switch it with lightdm, because in the past i've known slim to have many more compatibility problems. it's a bad default, tbh | 06:58 |
| papa | The Xfce session is also unchanged. Desktop wallpaper, context menu, and nothing else visible. | 06:59 |
| gnarface | yea, and we didn't get any errors in the Xorg log, right? so maybe it's just off the screen like you hypothesized | 06:59 |
| papa | It's slim if that's the default on the Netinstall DVD. | 06:59 |
| gnarface | i think so | 06:59 |
| gnarface | try lightdm | 06:59 |
| gnarface | or just disable it and try with startx | 07:00 |
| gnarface | - brb | 07:00 |
| gnarface | (it's starting to sound like the xorg.conf is your only hope though) | 07:01 |
| papa | How do I disable slim | 07:03 |
| papa | ? | 07:03 |
| papa | Enter "exit" as login. | 07:15 |
| papa | Using startx has the same result. If hacking xorg.conf is my next move, is there an example somewhere of safe settings that will work anywhere? | 07:22 |
| gnarface | papa: yes, but the real thing you need is specific values from the display manual provided by the manufacturer | 07:28 |
| papa | Heh. Wish me luck. I'm using a no-name TV my daughter gave me when she upgraded. | 07:30 |
| gnarface | you need specific values for HorizSync and VertRefresh in the appropriate "Monitor" section that match your display hardware specifically | 07:31 |
| gnarface | papa: find the fcc id, you should be able to look them up on some site... | 07:31 |
| gnarface | (if all else fails) | 07:32 |
| gnarface | sometimes 3rd party sites list this information, it's hard to say how trustworthy those are though | 07:33 |
| papa | Oh, the manual is on-line. | 07:34 |
| gnarface | so, once you have that set and an appropriate "Screen" section with a list of Modes you know it can support (resolutions) it should work | 07:34 |
| gnarface | ... assuming you got the rest of the base xorg.conf | 07:34 |
| gnarface | well, you don't have to necessarily provide the whole thing anymore i guess, there's a minimum subset of stanzas... it might just be those two i think.. | 07:38 |
| gnarface | maybe device | 07:38 |
| gnarface | oh... btw there's a driver just called "intel" you can use instead of the modesetting one, you can change that in this xorg.conf too for testing, but even intel says to use the default modesetting driver so i'd try to make that work this way first | 07:39 |
| gnarface | hmm... maybe see what "X -configure" gives you for a default xorg.conf, it might be obvious what to change from there | 07:43 |
| papa | There is no /etc/X11/xorg.conf or any files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d in the installed Devuan system. Is that normal? Where does xorg get default monitor properties, etc.? | 08:26 |
| rwp | papa, It is normal not to need an xorg.conf for some time now. Probably ten years! You won't need one normally. | 08:38 |
| rwp | For almost all combinations everything is deduced dynamically and automatically. | 08:38 |
| papa | Except when it isn't. :( | 08:39 |
| rwp | Honestly in the cases where it is not deduced it might be better to change out that ancient hardware so that can. It's just easier. | 08:41 |
| rwp | papa, I read through the scrollback buffer. Regarding GRUB I might suggest setting in /etc/default/grub and then update-grub GRUB_TERMINAL=console so that you don't get a graphical screen at that point. Assuming it is legacy booting grub-pc and not UEFI booting. But liking you are booting legacy bios. | 08:46 |
| rwp | I also suggest setting GRUB_DISABLE_SUBMENU=y so that all of the kernels are just listed normally. That's just a strong personal preference of mine. | 08:46 |
| rwp | And then since the graphics is not starting up I might suggest not starting slim nor lightdm either and just logging into the text console and _then_ starting X manually. That will display X errors more easily. Just run "startx" at that time. | 08:47 |
| papa | Have tried that. No significant X errors. | 08:48 |
| rwp | That's normal for me because a while back the xdm's (slim, lightdm) were unstable on my hardware and so now it's just normal for me to log into the vt console and then start up X manually. I use a .xinitrc file and I start X with xinit but startx provides a default system xinitrc if you don't have one. | 08:49 |
| papa | I wouldn't mind losing the display manager. But the problem is the inches of desktop that's getting cut off the left side of my display. | 08:50 |
| papa | ... in my X session. | 08:50 |
| rwp | What graphics adaptor do you have in your system? (lspci | grep VGA) | 08:51 |
| rwp | You might pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file too and then perhaps someone will see something in there that is a clue. | 08:52 |
| papa | I've just tried live media with Slackware-based Porteus and Debian-based antiX. Porteus looks fine, but antiX looks like it's cutting off the left side like Devuan. Maybe it's a Debian thing. | 08:53 |
| papa | Graphics adaptor is Intel IvyBridge GT2 | 08:53 |
| rwp | Also if you get X up enough to run then the output of "xrandr" might be a clue too. | 08:53 |
| papa | I pasted my Xorg.0.log a couple of days ago. No one on then saw anything amiss. | 08:54 |
| rwp | Sounds like a very weird problem! | 08:55 |
| rwp | papa, You have installed xserver-xorg-video-intel for the Intel drivers? | 08:56 |
| rwp | That should be automatically installed. But... | 08:57 |
| papa | Not unless the Netinstall DVD does it automatically. | 08:57 |
| papa | Will boot Devuan and check. | 08:58 |
| rwp | So all of my Thinkpads and NUC boxes have Intel graphics and I never do anything special to make the graphics work. They always just work. My desktop is using AMD graphics and I must install firmware-amd-graphics for it. | 08:58 |
| rwp | After booting look at the "dmesg" output and see if the kernel is asking for firmware that is not installed and available? | 09:00 |
| papa | My monitor's spec is 1366x768 pixels, but xrandr says 1920x1080 is selected. | 09:03 |
| rwp | Hmm... You might try overriding that. I have to do that on one of my systems to get the 4K display down to something my old eyes can see. | 09:04 |
| rwp | Try: xrandr --output eDP-1 --mode 1366x768 | 09:05 |
| rwp | Assuming that your output display is eDP-1, adjust that as needed. And maybe the --output is not needed at all. | 09:05 |
| papa | So use the name indicated in the original xrandr output? | 09:06 |
| rwp | Just checked and --mode requires to be after a --output so you will need to know your output device and use it there. | 09:06 |
| rwp | But if that works then it should sync your display size up with your monitor size and all will be well. If that works then put that command in your ~/.xsessionrc file (for Xfce and other Desktop Environment use) and it should always do that at start after that point. | 09:07 |
| rwp | The ~/.xsessionrc file is the normal user configuration override file for Desktop Environments. | 09:07 |
| papa | That changed my resolution, but there is still an area of my desktop beyond the left side of my display, and no Xfce widgets are visible. | 09:08 |
| rwp | Xfce widgets should be available top and bottom. | 09:08 |
| gnarface | papa: i just remembered something, there might actually be some intel hardware that needs something from a non-free-firmware package, but i forget the name of the package | 09:09 |
| rwp | They can be configured to be along the side but last I know they still default to top and bottom. | 09:09 |
| gnarface | (it might be failing over to software mode and maybe that's why auto-detect actually fails) | 09:09 |
| rwp | I have a vague memory like gnarface too that you might need a non-free firmware package. | 09:09 |
| gnarface | almost all the intel hardware doesn't need it but there was something... | 09:10 |
| papa | Even dialing the resolution down to 640x480, the display shows in the middle of the monitor with thick black margins on all sides, but there is still a portion of the desktop on the left that's invisible. | 09:10 |
| rwp | Intel bought a company that made graphics and that company's graphics adaptors were proprietary and non-free. But they moved away from them after that. So it's only a few of them that need it. | 09:10 |
| gnarface | papa: these are LCDs, not CRTs, right? | 09:11 |
| papa | LCD | 09:11 |
| papa | Will I get those drivers if I install xserver-xorg-video-intel? | 09:11 |
| gnarface | they don't have a "auto" feature like some of the early ones do? | 09:12 |
| gnarface | no, xserver-xorg-video-intel is the open source one and you should have it installed by default | 09:12 |
| gnarface | i'm wondering if it was just something like "firmware-linux-nonfree" | 09:12 |
| rwp | An Intel page says to use this to identify their graphics cards: lspci -k | grep -EA3 'VGA|3D|Display' | 09:13 |
| gnarface | papa: also note that as of current stable, all such driver packages have moved from "non-free" to the new section "non-free-firmware" (though non-free still exists for other stuff) | 09:15 |
| rwp | My Thinkpads all say they are using the i915 driver on my machines. | 09:15 |
| papa | Same driver lspci reports for mine. | 09:16 |
| rwp | I had xserver-xorg-video-intel automatically installed on my machine. | 09:17 |
| papa | From the shell, how do I find and install the necessary non-free firmware? | 09:17 |
| rwp | Ensure that non-free-firmware exists configured in /etc/apt/sources.list and then "apt-get update" and then "apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-intel" | 09:17 |
| papa | afk | 09:18 |
| rwp | It's a strange problem. Good luck! | 09:19 |
| gnarface | papa: i still think the relevant parts of a xorg.conf would fix this, because the problem as you describe could absolutely happen with expected xorg behavior if auto-detect detected 1920x1080 as the actual max resolution when the display only actually does something lower | 09:22 |
| gnarface | that said, (and i'm sure the channel logs will back me up here) this problem has been caused by missing firmware for maybe one or two intel video users in the past | 09:23 |
| gnarface | i think it really might have just been the firmware-linux-nonfree package | 09:24 |
| gnarface | papa: and here's a sources.list for you: https://paste.debian.net/1376623/ | 09:25 |
| rwp | I agree about installing all of the firmware packages as needed. That might solve the problem. | 09:25 |
| gnarface | trying to search up a better clue about the package name but i'm not finding it, and i'm sure this fundamental struggle has been logged before too... | 09:26 |
| gnarface | hmm, yea working right on other machines strongly indicates a kernel version or firmware issue... | 10:41 |
| gnarface | er other distros, rather | 10:41 |
| tairyu | what's going on? almost all failing mirrors, see https://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 13:00 |
| tairyu | afaik since saturday/sunday :( | 13:02 |
| onefang | Ah, I gotta manually update one of the test file versions. | 13:03 |
| onefang | tairyu: All good now. Thanks for letting me know, I wasn't gonna look at it again until tomorrow. | 13:11 |
| tairyu | ok, thank you :) | 13:36 |
| letherlick | https://youtu.be/3aGi1UOhOFI | 13:45 |
| gnarface | papa: if firmware-linux-nonfree doesn't do it, try firmware-misc-nonfree | 15:01 |
| tairyu | onefang: doing "apt-get update" I'm get "Cartificate verification failed: The certificate is NOT trusted. The name in the certificate does not match the expected."; also for mirrors marked OK in apt-panoticon (for instance: mirror.arkadam.net espejito.fder.edu.uy ). I'll continue trying, maybe it's a cache issue? | 15:02 |
| tairyu | (sorry for the previous typos), BTW I'm using daedalus/amd64 | 15:09 |
| tairyu | onefang: sorry, my fault I left the "s" iin https://deb.devuan.org, all is ok | 15:10 |
| gnarface | papa: got a couple more packages for you to try: firmware-intel-graphics, firmware-intel-misc, firmware-intel-sound | 17:07 |
| gnarface | (the last one is just in case you've got audio problems too) | 17:08 |
| papa | gnarface Will try them tomorrow. | 17:26 |
| papa | Goodnight. | 17:26 |
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