| UsL | are there any pitfalls doing full disc encryption or should I exclude /boot /dev and such and make encrypted partions instead? | 13:04 |
|---|---|---|
| UsL | I am about to do a new install. Which I haven't done in ages. | 13:04 |
| fsmithred | UsL, I think it's somewhat a matter of preference. I encrypt everything except /boot, which is just root partition and home partition in my case | 13:27 |
| fsmithred | I make a keyfile so I don't have to enter the password for the home partition | 13:28 |
| fsmithred | and swap is a swapfile in the root partition, so it's encrypted | 13:28 |
| fsmithred | other way to do it is with lvm in an encrypted partition and then you can break up the lvm into whatever partitions you want. | 13:29 |
| fsmithred | if you're really concerned about your /boot partition being unencrypted, put it on a usb stick and keep it in your pocket/wallet/whatever but not with the computer. | 13:30 |
| UsL | okay, I see. You gave me some new ideas there. Thanks. But no obvious pitfalls with full disc encryption I gather? I might just do that then | 14:05 |
| UsL | the reason I asked btw, is that I have a faint memory of something breaking for someone. But since the memory is faint, the issue is probably solved long since : ) | 14:25 |
| fsmithred | no grub theme, I think | 14:27 |
| fsmithred | but that happens with encrypted root anyway, unless you move the theme into /boot/grub/ | 14:27 |
| UsL | ah, I made a good looking one (If I may say so myself :) that I would miss, so perhaps I'll do the partioning after all | 14:51 |
| Sompi | Is Devuan continuing to support 32-bit? | 17:17 |
| Sompi | I heard that Debian is ending the 32-bit x86 target | 17:17 |
| plasma41 | Sompi: The best I can say at this point is that, as far as I'm aware, Devuan will continue to support x86-32 to at least the same extent as Debian. I don't speak for all of Devuan, however. | 17:20 |
| Sompi | debian seems to have completely abandoned its original principles | 17:20 |
| Sompi | it used to be one of the most portable distros and now they are even ditching x86 | 17:20 |
| plasma41 | To continue to support x86-32 after such a time as Debian were to completely stop supporting it, Devuan would need addition manpower. Contributions welcome | 17:23 |
| Sompi | What does it need? | 17:25 |
| Sompi | If it's mostly just compiling and testing, I can at least try it | 17:31 |
| Sompi | Debian is clearly been taken over by people who want technological monoculture... | 17:31 |
| plasma41 | Sompi: As I see it, Devuan would need (at least) two main things to continue x86-32 support after Debian were to drop support: 1) build infrastructure to build all the x86-32 binaries that Debian currently builds -- which is a big ask -- and 2) dedicated maintainers for x86-32 kernel and debian-installer support. | 17:43 |
| Sompi | It's crazy that now so many distros are even dropping 32-bit x86 | 17:44 |
| Sompi | While supporting much slower and less common ARM hardware | 17:45 |
| plasma41 | To play devil's advocate, mainstream x86-32 computers haven't been on the market for nearly two decades now. | 17:47 |
| Sompi | Yes, but they are not rare | 17:48 |
| user71 | I'm wondering whether IDE harddrives are rare now.. | 17:52 |
| plasma41 | Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of continued x86-32 support in Debian & Devuan. I just lack the manpower to take on the full weight of making it happen. | 17:53 |
| Sompi | But my point was that it is stupid to end supporting something just "because it's old". They used to be so extremely common that they are still common, even after two decades | 17:54 |
| Sompi | The "because it's old" argument is usually used by people who want technological monoculture where everyone uses identical computers in identical ways | 17:55 |
| Sompi | I have been told too many times that I'm using computers wrong... | 17:56 |
| Sompi | plasma41: "uild infrastructure to build all the x86-32 binaries that Debian currently builds | 17:56 |
| Sompi | " | 17:56 |
| Xenguy | Are there distros that are still supporting 32-bit? | 17:56 |
| Sompi | <- nowadays I'm having difficulties in building many common packets even on 64-bit | 17:56 |
| Sompi | Xenguy: Are you asking that seriously? Of course there is | 17:57 |
| Xenguy | Serious yet, because I don't follow other distros whatsoever | 17:57 |
| Xenguy | s/yet/yes | 17:57 |
| Sompi | plasma41: It seems that many maintainers are intentionally sabotaging projects so that only their favourite target works. Right now most slackware packages from slackbuilds.org are more or less broken because of various stupid things | 17:58 |
| Sompi | Seems that Debian also does not have so many supported platforms as it used to. Now there is only x86 (64-bit and 32-bit), various ARMs, PowerPC, MIPS and s390 | 17:59 |
| Sompi | Why are they even supporting s390 and ARMs while dropping the 32-bit x86... that makes no sense | 18:00 |
| Sompi | It's like they want to produce as much electronic waste as possible | 18:00 |
| djph | 32-bit x86 as a general-purpose computing platform died 20 years ago. Why should the debian team continue supporting antique hardware ? | 18:58 |
| djph | Now, obviously, if they have one person who wants to do all that work, more power to them, and let them have at it (has anyone stepped up to maintain that kernel?) | 18:59 |
| Sompi | djph: Do you even realize how much computing power these 32-bit x86 computers have? | 19:56 |
| Sompi | And how common they are? | 19:56 |
| Sompi | Why are they supported much rarer and less powerful platforms then? | 19:57 |
| Sompi | supporting* | 19:57 |
| Sompi | I'm just repeating myself, because you clearly did not even read the conversation before writing your stupid lines | 19:58 |
| Sompi | And now you are saying that the world's second most used computing platform is "antique" and saying that it is ok to stop supporting it. Do you even realize how fucking arrogant and snobbish that is? | 20:00 |
| cousin_luigi | Sompi: I would say it's a matter of allocating resources. How many developer hours vs. how many actual users. | 20:00 |
| cousin_luigi | And at the end of the day, as it usually is with most OSS projects, it is a matter of volunteers. | 20:01 |
| Sompi | And all that while most new computers cannot even boot anything else than the factory-installed operating system anymore | 20:01 |
| cousin_luigi | Are you willing to do the work or know anyone who would? | 20:01 |
| Sompi | cousin_luigi: Based on what I have seen, often it isn't even a matter of volunteers. The problem is that the maintainers of many popular packages, programs and libraries intentionally sabotage them so that they become unportable | 20:01 |
| Sompi | Often the distro maintainers really try to create a working product for more than one target platforms | 20:02 |
| cousin_luigi | Sompi: If developers don't want the headaches that come with supporting multiple platforms/versions/younameit who are we to say they ought? | 20:02 |
| Sompi | The problem is that nowadays it seems to be more headache than it used to be | 20:03 |
| Sompi | Nowadays everything breaks if you have a wrong version of gcc | 20:04 |
| cousin_luigi | "everything" | 20:04 |
| cousin_luigi | gcc comes with switches and compilation flags | 20:04 |
| Sompi | In the past you could compile most programs to any Linux or BSD distro regardless of the target CPU architecture | 20:04 |
| Sompi | And I'm not even exaggerating much | 20:04 |
| cousin_luigi | You sound like you have an axe to grind. | 20:05 |
| Sompi | And ending x86 support means that there is less computers that can run the distro. Most new computers are never going to boot anything else than Windows, or whatever factory-installed operating system they have | 20:06 |
| Sompi | I have only one UEFI computer that can actually boot other stuff | 20:06 |
| Sompi | And I have three UEFI computers | 20:06 |
| Sompi | Or actually, four | 20:07 |
| Sompi | Those BIOS-era x86-64 machines are usually good, but anything newer than 2010 is most likely going to at least have problems, if not completely unable to boot anything else than M$ Windows | 20:09 |
| Sompi | And it's crazy because it is already 2025 | 20:09 |
| Sompi | Based on my limited experience, anything that has *EFI stuff in it seems to have less than 50% chance of being able to boot other programs than M$ Windows... | 20:10 |
| Sompi | If the computer is a Dell or a Lenovo, it has a higher chance of working | 20:12 |
| Sompi | But not without a CMOS battery, because then it is has UEFI+Secure Boot enabled with Microsoft's keys | 20:13 |
| Sompi | I have mostly 32-bit x86 machines and now so many Linux distributions are suddenly ending support for that hardware, while supporting some very rare ARM machines that almost no-one has | 20:16 |
| Sompi | They should at least support RISC-V and not some ARM stuff that is designed to be against user freedom anyway | 20:28 |
| fsmithred | Sompi, do you think five hours of complaining is enough? Or are you actually asking for help? If so, here it is: linux-libre is still available in 32-bit. It works with devuan excalibur (aka debian trixie) | 20:40 |
| djph | Sompi: so what you're saying is "it's not fair that people aren't doing the work FOR ME anymore, because I choose to use antique hardware" | 20:43 |
| Sompi | djph: Fuck you. I'm not asking for anyone to do work for me, I just want that software developers stop sabotaging free software. | 20:52 |
| Sompi | And you are clearly one of those who do that. | 20:53 |
| Sompi | I know it because you are using words like "antique hardware" for the second most used target platform. You only exist to destroy stuff. | 20:56 |
| fsmithred | Sompi, maybe there's a more effective way to achieve your goal than what you're doing. | 20:57 |
| fsmithred | This is a support channel. | 20:57 |
| Sompi | And on the contrary, I can volunteer in maintaining a 32-bit distribution, and I know that many linux userland packages are nowadays very non-portable and it makes things difficult. | 20:57 |
| Sompi | And it is because of these people who think that everyone who uses computers differently are enemies that must be eliminated. | 20:57 |
| Sompi | They are constantly seeking some corporate-friendly computing monoculture and breaking stuff and annoying people on purpose. | 20:59 |
| Sompi | I have seen discussions between distro maintainers and userland software maintainers where the latter are intentionally breaking stuff to prevent people from building it on target platforms that they don't like. | 21:00 |
| Sompi | And the distro maintainers have no other choice than to keep coming up with patches to the software, while the mainline maintainer keeps intentionally sabotaging it and breaking more stuff. | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | ok, but this is not the correct channel for that discussion | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | can you please stop? | 21:01 |
| djph | *faceplam* sorry, fsmithred | 21:01 |
| Sompi | Yes. | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | thank you | 21:02 |
| Sompi | But there is not much support needed for a Linux distribution that just works like the old Debian did. | 21:23 |
| Sompi | Just responding to this being a support channel :P | 21:23 |
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