| golinux | Hi AlexLikeRock! | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| amarsh04 | thought I'd have trouble transferring a boot hard disk from an old BIOS motherboard to a new UEFI motherboard but it worked fine | 11:01 |
| fsmithred | amarsh04, did you already have an efi partition on the disk? Or a bios-grub partition? | 11:20 |
| djph | UEFI "should(tm)" gracefully fallback to MBR as well (or is it the other way around -- GPT has a graceful fallback) | 12:14 |
| fsmithred | gpt with bios boot requires a special partition, at least 1MB with flag ef02 (bios_grub) and no filesystem on it. | 12:23 |
| fsmithred | there's also something called "protective mbr" or something like that. I'm not sure how that works. | 12:24 |
| fsmithred | with gpt ^^^ | 12:24 |
| djph | yeah, my knowledge on it is pretty fuzzy ... half of hte information just sounds like "it'll just work, trust me" | 12:25 |
| fsmithred | I had to understand enough to get the live installer to work with uefi. There are still some rough edges, like when there are two efi partitions (not on the same drive). | 12:38 |
| fsmithred | and motherboards don't all match standards, so it can be a crap shoot. | 12:40 |
| freem | <fsmithred> gpt with bios boot requires a special partition, at least 1MB with flag ef02 (bios_grub) and no filesystem on it. | 12:40 |
| freem | that is *grub* | 12:40 |
| fsmithred | what do you mean "that is grub"? | 12:40 |
| freem | using a different bootloader will make this partition non needed, it is not related to gpt | 12:41 |
| fsmithred | you mean using a bootloader on a different disk? | 12:41 |
| freem | no | 12:41 |
| freem | I mean that only grub have this silly requirement for a dedicated partition | 12:42 |
| fsmithred | ah, ok | 12:42 |
| freem | as the partition type says itself, too: bios_grub | 12:42 |
| amarsh04 | fsmithred - turns out that the new motherboard still supports legacy bios booting | 12:43 |
| freem | with other bootloaders, you only need to (grub needs it, too, mind you) write a small file to the 1st sector of the HDD | 12:43 |
| fsmithred | now I want to try extlinux with gpt | 12:44 |
| freem | in syslinux's case, it can be found in `/usr/lib/SYSLINUX`, those files have a size <= 440 bytes | 12:44 |
| freem | ./lib/syslinux/mbr/gptmbr.bin this is the one I systematically "dd if=src of=dst" :) | 12:45 |
| fsmithred | amarsh04, how is you disk set up. msdos, gpt, ??? | 12:45 |
| amarsh04 | gpt | 12:45 |
| freem | the only cons of gpt+syslinux I have so far is that I need to copy the vmlinuz and initrd on the EFI partition, but I'm not sure it is really worth automating | 12:45 |
| freem | I think it's possible to chain-boot, but I have not gone this far. | 12:46 |
| fsmithred | rrq was working on that I think. | 12:46 |
| freem | I'd love to read about that | 12:49 |
| avir327 | Hello! Updating pam (1.5.3-7+b1 -> 1.7.0-2) just noticed this change to 'pam_limits': "do not override systemd's limits by default; add the set_all option to restore previous behavior". Does this mean, every non-systemd system needs to get adapted manually, or can/will this be handled by the Devuan devs? | 12:52 |
| rrq | freem: extlinux has a bootloader for gpt partition table | 12:53 |
| rrq | freem: generally syslinux does not have a "disk" concept, so everyting has to be in the boot partition (that contains "ldlinux") | 12:54 |
| freem | yes, for the partition table. No idea how, but it manages to find the partition it needs to, and chain into the program there, which can read the config and load other modules | 12:56 |
| freem | s/, for the partition table// | 12:56 |
| freem | (ignore that) | 12:56 |
| freem | but it does not requires a specific parition for the payload, which can thus be ext/vfat or others, I think? | 12:57 |
| rrq | extlinux requires ext[234] | 12:58 |
| freem | I have not looked at the internals of this stuff since more than a decade, and don't remember much. I never got much in this, neither | 12:58 |
| freem | yes, but, the MBR one installs seems to be able to detect iso/ext/vfat variants? | 12:59 |
| freem | s/variants/filesystems/ | 12:59 |
| rrq | you mean the installer? | 13:00 |
| freem | find /usr -ipath '*syslinux*' -iname '*mbr*' -type f | upl -> https://p.mort.coffee/i2p I don't remember using other bootloaders | 13:00 |
| freem | ah, right, there is an installer for non-gpt | 13:01 |
| freem | oh... yes, old parition system just had a bootable flag | 13:01 |
| freem | sorry, too long not using non-efi hardware (and I don't miss it) | 13:01 |
| rrq | I think you're mixing things :) | 13:01 |
| freem | I think so too | 13:02 |
| rrq | the bios boot starts with a boot loader fitted into the first 448 bytes, and you chose that depending on partition table type | 13:03 |
| rrq | it includes an index for which partition to boot from, and that partition has the next stage bootloader, wchih interprets a me nu config etc | 13:04 |
| freem | rrq: to me, the bootloader is the part that gpt+EFI puts into the special boot partition, and what dos partition systems (and their limit of 4 "real" partitions) had in the 1st sector of the partition, which means less than 512 bytes. Grub2 needs a partition in gpt mode because they used to abuse a convention to not use the first 8 mebibytes or something of the partition | 13:04 |
| freem | yes, you are more accurate than me | 13:05 |
| rrq | EFI bios is different from legacy bios | 13:05 |
| freem | yes, there is a partition with a specific ID | 13:05 |
| freem | or part of ID | 13:05 |
| freem | and the bootloader is no longer limited to less than 500 bytes :D | 13:05 |
| rrq | yes, EFI bios boots by picking a bootloader file in its FAT filesystem | 13:06 |
| freem | do you think it's possible with syslinux & friends to chain-boot from the FAT filesystem to the other partitions? That's something I have not done myself, but wuold ease my life quite a bit | 13:07 |
| rrq | no, syslinux doesn't include code do check other partition(s) | 13:07 |
| rrq | it can only enumerate the boot partition | 13:08 |
| freem | yes, but the bootloader-partition could get those written manually | 13:08 |
| freem | in the config I mean | 13:08 |
| rrq | there's no syntax for partitions | 13:08 |
| rrq | syslinux doesn;t have code for enumerating partitions | 13:09 |
| freem | so far (and since years) I copy the kernel files on the fat-partition, but it's not exactly convenient | 13:09 |
| freem | but then I don't update kernels everyday neither | 13:10 |
| fsmithred | isolinux boot menu can select partitions to boot | 13:11 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried it lately | 13:11 |
| rrq | do you have doc pointer for that? | 13:13 |
| rrq | afaik there's no syntax for partitions (above /) | 13:14 |
| rrq | and I don;t think the code includes any table of partitions | 13:15 |
| rrq | it does however include a lua intepreter so one could imagine someone implementing a lua table of partitions ... | 13:16 |
| rrq | though it'd need to interface both efi and legacy partition enumerations | 13:17 |
| fsmithred | chain.c32 hd0,0 | 13:18 |
| fsmithred | so not booting directly. Also the old syntax was: localboot 0x80 | 13:18 |
| fsmithred | both are in the isolinux boot menu from refractasnapshot | 13:19 |
| rrq | not available for efi bios... maybe they work for extlinux? | 13:22 |
| rrq | (0x80 is legacy bios refrence to "first harddisk", and localboot runs the legacy boot procedure stamped on that) | 13:23 |
| * freem wonders if those stuff are still maintained | 13:23 | |
| rrq | likewise for chain32; it runs the legacy boot of the targeted partition | 13:24 |
| freem | syslinux.org indicates last news in 2014 | 13:24 |
| freem | but can't find a link toward a forge, so maybe there are changes under the hood? | 13:24 |
| fsmithred | I'm gonna test | 13:25 |
| rrq | I believe last packaged version by devuan is hte most recent | 13:25 |
| freem | I think so too. This is not stuff that needs many changes neither | 13:26 |
| fsmithred | shhh! | 13:26 |
| fsmithred | don't let them know. | 13:27 |
| rrq | https://git.devuan.org/devuan/syslinux | 13:27 |
| freem | fsmithred: lol don't worry, I heard systemd already have a bootloader | 13:27 |
| freem | thx rrq | 13:27 |
| rrq | branch suites/unstable | 13:28 |
| freem | hm... I'm curious, what is the name of the installer package, if there is such? So that I cna find the repo, I'd like to peek at how it's done | 13:29 |
| rrq | devuan/installer-iso | 13:30 |
| freem | ah, thx | 13:30 |
| rrq | branch main | 13:31 |
| freem | you mean master? | 13:31 |
| rrq | the installer includes 3 different and intermixed boot equipments | 13:31 |
| rrq | yes | 13:31 |
| freem | iso, mbr and gpt? | 13:32 |
| freem | or iso, mbr/gpt, and nfs? | 13:32 |
| freem | (or maybe I'm completely off) | 13:32 |
| rrq | it's a hybrid ISO | 13:33 |
| rrq | with DOS partition table | 13:33 |
| freem | fun. | 13:33 |
| rrq | it's made to handle efi or legacy with media as disk or cdrom, with syslinux/isolinux and a single boot menu configurtaion | 13:34 |
| rrq | the hybrid setup is El Torrito | 13:35 |
| rrq | called "El Torrito" | 13:35 |
| freem | rings a bell yes | 13:35 |
| rrq | which allows for an embeded FAT/EFI filesystem less than 32MB in size | 13:36 |
| freem | is that normally impossible? | 13:36 |
| freem | I always have assumed FAT to be damn small... 0.7MB or close... since I remember the values of my childhood 1"44 floppy disks | 13:37 |
| freem | huh... 1"4, well, 1.44MiB raw, and 1.38 avail on the fat | 13:37 |
| * freem reading https://wiki.osdev.org/El-Torito now | 13:38 | |
| rrq | well, one pair of kernel+initrd is some 40++ MB nowadays | 13:39 |
| freem | oh, ok, it's not because of EFI or FAT | 13:39 |
| freem | understood, then | 13:39 |
| freem | thanks for clarification :) | 13:39 |
| freem | so there is a really tiny OS installed on the iso, which boots the system sitting in a GPT/DOS partition table? | 13:40 |
| freem | sorry, i'm a bit tired, maybe I just fail to understand. I'll look myself, will be less noisy this way | 13:41 |
| fsmithred | from a live-usb, chain.c32 hd1,0 worked (booted the hard disk) | 13:42 |
| freem | that stuff interests me because I have my own little scripts to build my own installer, and it could definitely be improved | 13:42 |
| rrq | there is a preamble initrd that has modules to handle drives, so it can find the actual installer (an 84MB initrd), unpack ath switch to it | 13:42 |
| rrq | ath=that | 13:43 |
| freem | notably I got surprised yesterday that OVH no longer allows me to boot from an iso I'd send them, so now I need a way to remote install from a debian rescue environment... | 13:43 |
| rrq | no ath=and | 13:43 |
| freem | so I could not use the devuan iso yesterday :'( | 13:43 |
| rrq | check out https://git.devuan.org/rrq/softboot.git :) | 13:44 |
| freem | they also put everything in one partition, so can't even tinker from the default system they install :'( but that is off-topic /whine | 13:44 |
| freem | I was curious to know if the installer still requires a constant presence | 13:45 |
| rrq | softboot can warp off a systemd filesystem onto another init filesystem | 13:45 |
| freem | neat | 13:45 |
| fsmithred | the live installer might work in that situation. It uses rsync to copy the running system. | 13:45 |
| freem | I will definitely read that code | 13:45 |
| fsmithred | you'd need to set the target to your remote disk partition | 13:46 |
| rrq | the installer requires access to the ISO to fluff itself up with more modules than in the 84MB initrd | 13:46 |
| freem | well, I just removed dust from my old scripts and memory, and tinkered my way. When I start from a debian rescue, as long as I have network access, I can do everything I want. | 13:46 |
| freem | I think I'll redo my scripts to rely on drist, for this kind of situation. I already have a suboptimal template system ,just need to improve on this | 13:47 |
| freem | heh, nice die() variant | 13:48 |
| freem | yes, I need to read that when feeling better, I'm really curious at this "involuntary transfer of the current PID 1" thing :D | 13:54 |
| freem | I thught killing PID1 would make kernel quite unhappy | 13:55 |
| rrq | the signal is handled by the process, which reruns "itself" via its "$0 pathname" | 13:56 |
| freem | heh. Neat. | 13:56 |
| rrq | so if you make that pathname be something else, then the process will exec that | 13:57 |
| freem | I love that trick | 13:57 |
| rrq | it's useful :) | 13:58 |
| freem | can most init do that? | 13:58 |
| rrq | works similarly with sysvinit; I don;t think runit does a re-run though. | 13:59 |
| rrq | I've only looked at sysvinit and "that other one" | 14:01 |
| freem | sounds like a useful feature in general, I'll check if runit have some code for this | 14:01 |
| rrq | I believe sysvinit included re-execution as a "safety guard" for possble memory leaks or potential resource hogging... | 14:04 |
| freem | would make sense imo | 14:05 |
| rrq | and it also handles "live upgrade" | 14:05 |
| al1r4d | fresh kde install and i got 100% plasma shell :( | 16:02 |
| al1r4d | is it normal? | 16:02 |
| al1r4d | https://ibb.co.com/qYfwzc7y | 16:02 |
| gnarface | on daedalus? i didn't look at the screenshot but i think so... | 16:06 |
| al1r4d | gnarface: excalibur ceres | 16:14 |
| al1r4d | weird, i cant turn on fn keypad thinkpad | 16:14 |
| al1r4d | maybe i should switch to gnome | 16:15 |
| gnarface | first thing i would do is verify you've got the correct keymap | 16:15 |
| nemo | I'm a MATE fan myself. gave gnome3 a try for a while, but, I like the pretty good featureset, and traditional desktop layout of MATE | 16:16 |
| nemo | I do use the fancy searchable menu sometimes | 16:16 |
| nemo | and optional acceleration is handy too | 16:17 |
| al1r4d | gnarface: i never have this problem before | 16:17 |
| al1r4d | i just migrated to kde from xfce | 16:17 |
| al1r4d | xfce, i dont have a problem | 16:17 |
| gnarface | al1r4d: some window managers have their own separate setting for keymaps and some don't | 16:18 |
| gnarface | but if you're on excalibur, regressions are likely too | 16:19 |
| al1r4d | gnarface: thx for explanation | 16:36 |
| al1r4d | now i'm on gnome | 16:36 |
| gnarface | al1r4d: well you probably could have just changed the setting in kde too, but whatever works... | 16:54 |
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