libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2024-12-17

paculinoThank you, I will try that repo later (pinned for just deadbeef). I found a universal deb for it on their website, but like having the ability to update it in terminal easily.00:01
plasma41paculino: Or try compiling the deadbeef deb-src package from deb-multimedia directly. http://www.deb-multimedia.org/pool/main/d/deadbeef-dmo/ I'd just strongly advice against mixing pre-built packages from multiple repositories. Locally building the deb-src packages is much less error prone, but is still not officially supported.00:03
plasma41s/advice/advise/00:04
plasma41paculino: See also bugs.debian.org/576975 "RFP: deadbeef -- Ultimate Music Player"00:06
djphHurgotron: ah, found the debian changelog reference from 2023 -> "this should be deprecated and removed, and users should use tomcat10 instead" ... so...00:20
edsonwolfGood night. I'm using the libre kernel on a station with devuan excalibur, and I need wireguard, but when I go to install wireguard it says it has to install the 6.11 kernel. Is there a way to solve it?01:40
djphwhat's "the libre kernel" ?02:02
edsonwolfThe Linux-libre kernel is a modified version of the Linux kernel that removes non-free components and is considered to be 100% free02:21
edsonwolfhttps://linux-libre.fsfla.org/02:21
ted-iousCan't you install both kernels and choose to boot the libre one?02:24
rustyaxewireguard: Depends: wireguard-modules (>= 0.0.20191219) | wireguard-dkms (>= 0.0.20200121-2), wireguard-tools (>= 1.0.20210914-1)02:57
rustyaxeLook at wireguard-dkms, in theory that should be the way, yea/02:57
JackFrostwireguard-dkms is gone, if you want it you're supposed to configure the kernel with it.  The kernel mainline has had the series for a while now.03:02
JackFrost(And not just 6.11, that's new.  Stable has the needed kernel.)03:02
darwini did 'dpkg-reconfigure tzdata' as root but it's set my family PC at incorrect time for our zone.  The menu was very odd in comparison/contrast to others, but I triple-checked the zone is correct, which isn't on daylight saving time (DST) since last month but set as if it is or one zone East06:15
darwini also restarted openntpd which then stated the incorrect time06:15
plasma41darwin: What's the value of your TZ environment variable?06:25
darwindoesn't exist06:25
plasma41darwin: What timezone are you in and what time does the 'date' command report?06:28
darwinUTC-806:29
darwinMon Dec 16 10:25:43 PM PST 2024.  It's now 9:25 in PST06:30
onefang9:30 when you posted that.06:30
darwinit's 10:25 in PDT (DST, not on since last month, but didn't change on that PC)06:30
darwini see, so it's five minutes off also06:31
plasma41darwin: Hmm, what version of the tzdata package is installed?06:33
darwin2024b-0+deb12u106:33
darwinbut said 'N: There is 1 additional record. Please use the '-a' switch to see it'06:33
darwinwhich instead showed fewer records than originally06:35
darwinsame entry with fewer lines06:35
plasma41darwin: What is the contents of your /etc/timezone file?06:37
darwinAmerica/Los_Angeles06:38
darwinalso, the US time zone list is broken/incomplete06:38
plasma41darwin: What does 'date --utc' report?06:39
darwinif you 'dpkg-reconfigure tzdata' and go to US, it has Eastern, Central, Mountain, but maybe not Pacific.  It has Pacific Ocean, which I think is something else06:39
darwinTue Dec 17 06:35:41 AM UTC 202406:39
onefangPacific Ocean sounds like where Hawaii is.06:40
plasma41darwin: Ok, looks like you have the correct timezone but your system is about an hour out from what it thinks the time is in UTC versus what it actually is. It's 05:42 UTC right now.06:42
darwinbut openntpd should've updated that?  We don't use UTC anyway06:43
plasma41darwin: Sorry, my IRC client crashed. :-/06:45
onefangNothing was said while you where gone.06:46
plasma41darwin: The issue is with your NTP daemon. Your timezone is correct.06:46
darwinthat's odd because an NTPD works fine on all our other PCs/servers... of course, they're running BSD or Slackware (I only use Debian-based for family stuff)06:47
onefangThough it's possible you didn't get a chance to read the last thing darwin said while your client crashed.06:47
darwinntpd is running on that one and I restarted it06:48
plasma41darwin: I'm not familiar with openntpd. I use ntpsec as my NTP daemon.06:48
darwinok06:48
onefangThe NTP daemon might be slowly drifting your clock to the correct time.  Some of them do that to avoid sudden time jumps I think.  Or not.06:49
darwinweird06:49
darwini have OpenNTPD on a Slackware server, which has the correct time06:51
plasma41darwin: FWIW, a couple weeks ago I notice that my clock was several hours out. The NTP daemon I had installed at the time was chrony which I had installed to verify another program's testsuite. I switched back to ntpsec and my clock was immediately set back to the right time.06:51
darwinthat's a newer version though06:51
darwini'll look into ntpsec06:51
gnarfacei use ntpsec too, and the only caveat i would add is, if you are pointing ntpsec clients at your own (single) private ntp server, make sure you also change this line to allow less than 3 minimum servers before it starts working: #tos minclock 4 minsane 307:09
gnarface(or just comment it out)07:09
plasma41gnarface: In which config file?07:10
gnarfacethe comment on the previous entry also suggests you should change the default of "tos maxclock 11" to "tos maxclock 7"07:10
gnarfaceplasma41: /etc/ntpsec/ntp.conf07:10
plasma41thanks07:10
gnarfaceyou might have the old config too still if you were using ntpd on a previous release you upgraded from07:10
darwini don't have my own NTPD server07:10
darwini just use defaults07:11
gnarfaceshould be fine then07:11
darwinit uses 0 to 3.debian.pool.ntp.org07:11
gnarfaceyes, there's a public ntp.org pool you can use too, if you're paranoid07:12
darwindon't know why it's not using the standard 0 to 3.pool.ntp.org iburst07:12
gnarfacei think just so debian can have bragging rights07:12
gnarfacethere's like a leaderboard somewhere, lol07:13
gnarfacelike i said, you can change it07:13
darwinthanks; TTYL07:20
onefangAh darwin left before I could chip in on that last bit.  I have run an NTP server network last century.  One reason for doing so is to lessen the load on upstream time servers, which is something the protocol is designed to do.  Another is to keep infrastructure more local.07:44
cousin_luigiSo, what do you all think of GNU Shepherd?10:07
gnarfacenever heard of it10:09
freemis not Shepherd that gnu distro which attempts to make actual use of the gnu kernel?10:24
* freem checks10:25
freemah, nope. It's service manager written in "Guile scheme" which can also be used as an init. An "interesting" point is (like for emacs, but with a different criticity role...) that services are written with the same idiom. I'd be ultra wary of this.10:27
freem"The Shepherd is configured in Guile Scheme and can be extended in the same language. It builds on a simple memory-safe and callback-free programming model"10:27
freem"memory-safe" smells like a new buzzword to me10:28
freemdoes that potentially PID1 program consider it being memory safe, to rely on dynamic allocations, considering the fact the most used linux builds includes overcommit by default?10:29
freem"he Shepherd is developed jointly with Guix. It runs as PID 1 on Guix System and manages user services for Guix Home."10:29
freemhttps://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/10:30
freemrunning on an OS with overcommit enabled basically breaks a lot of what I would consider required to call a program "memory safe", as to me, this includes the property of recovering from any memory error after the program's start phase.10:31
freemone can see when reading runit's code or other init's documentation that care is taken to avoid dynamic allocations when possible, and to recover from failure to alloc. Those are usually written in C or (more rarely) C++ though, I honestly wonder if many "memory safe" langs such as java (I have seen eclipse segfault so often this "memory safe" attribute makes me laugh) or better allow to handle this kind of problematic, which is relatively close to10:35
freembaremetal I think?10:35
rrqpls use devuan-offtopic instead10:37
freemsorry, rrq. I try, but sometimes I slip.12:04
freemrrq: just one question though. Was the cousin_luigi's question off-topic or not? It's not to blame, but to more understand when and what went off-topic?12:05
freembetter understanding means hopefully less slips?12:05
freemslipping* (I guess?)12:06
gnarfaceyes, he should have asked that in #devuan-offtopic12:10
gnarfacesometimes one or two lines of offtopic when it's quiet go uncontested12:11
gnarfaceit's when you start putting in 10+ line replies that you get on the radar12:11
gnarface(not you specifically, anyone, and in the past usually me)12:11
freemI understand12:12
freemit is why I am asking for more details about when things went off12:12
freemI am trying to follow the rules, but the notions are blurry to me, still. Sorry for that.12:12
gnarfacethe general rule of thumb is that if it's not about devuan support, it belongs in offtopic12:13
onefangBasically, this is a support channel for Devuan.  SNAP!12:13
freemdo you have a definition for support?12:13
freemI mean, a formal one12:14
freemthat is easy to understand for a non-native english user12:14
gnarfacei don't think i have the authority to dictate what the formal one is, but i think it would be something close to "answering questions people have about getting stuff to work on their devuan install"12:14
freemhuh... I think I'm failing to ask properly here12:14
freemwhen I said "you" I didn't meant "you" as gnarface, but "you" as the community12:15
freemthis lack of subtlelty is really a problem in english12:15
freemcan't distinguish the target from a group12:15
freemas in, single to plural12:16
freemoff-topic!12:16
freemsorry.12:16
fatalyour insight about shepherd was gnu related so not really off topic and no support related topic was interrupted anyway12:17
freemI would not have dared to interrupt a real support phase12:17
freemfor that, that is12:17
freemI try to respect the semantics, but without clear definition it's hard12:18
freemopen to interpretations, rather12:19
fatalit's ok don't worry about it you'll get it12:19
freemI don't worry too much12:28
freemI just try to cope with places I'm in12:28
freemthey usually have their own culture, more or less USA-independent12:28
freemUSA/buzz/whatever12:29
buZzi'm not from US in A12:37
gnarfacei think this all belongs in #devuan-offtopic12:39
freemrofl that is off-topic buZz!12:39
buZz;)12:39
gnarfaceheh12:39
freemand a nice diversion12:39
cousin_luigirrq: freem: I wondered if it might be part of devuan's future.12:58
rrqyes such a discussion fits perfectly on #devuan-offtopic13:00
freemcousin_luigi: this is probably more suited to #devuan-offtopic or a dev chan, this one is about helping current users of current distro to face their problems13:00
freemI tried to write it in the most neutral tone I could13:01
freemI am *not* allowed to say what is or not good for a particular room, though13:01
freemall I say is only my guessing13:02
fatalrrq: just ignore it13:09
Guest87is the a good sysvinit guide for devuan16:59
Guest87hi16:59
gnarfaceGuest87: stand by, lemme find it17:04
Guest87ty17:04
* golinux has never had to touch anything with sysvinit17:04
gnarfaceGuest87: yea, probably i should ask what you're trying to do, because users don't typically need a guide for it, it's so simple, but if there's a part you didn't find obvious enough that i can't just tell you in one line, it's probably this part: https://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts (just a guess)17:05
Guest87ty again im trying to disable netwrok manager to use iwd17:07
gnarfacei'm not sure that installing iwd wouldn't just remove network-manager for you anyway, and personally i would remove it either way, but you can control what starts and stops automatically by using sysv-rc-conf (from package of same name), update-rc.d (from the init-system-helpers package) or just edit the symlinks in /etc/rc*.d/ by hand, the rules aren't complex17:09
gnarfacestuff with a symlink in one of those directories starting with "S" will start and starting with "K" will not17:10
Guest87also i have other problem i cant connect to deb.devuan.org but firefox works17:10
gnarfacehmm, might be an ipv6 thing17:11
gnarfaceit has come up before17:11
gnarfaceyou using ipv6?17:11
Guest87417:12
gnarfacehmm17:12
gnarfacewhat happens if you nslookup deb.devaun.org?17:13
gnarfacedon't paste the output here, just tell me how many entries you see17:13
Guest87well when i moved to iwd17:13
Guest871 sec17:13
Guest87it worked17:13
Guest87iwd hleped17:13
gnarfaceyou installed iwd and it uninstalled network-manager automatically by default?17:14
gnarfaceor you had to edit symlinks?17:14
gnarfaceor you just removed network-manager manually?17:15
Guest87well17:16
Guest87i failed i think17:16
Guest87Ign:1 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:2 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:3 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:1 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:2 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:3 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:1 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:2 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates InRelease17:16
Guest87Ign:3 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security InRelease17:16
Guest87Err:1 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease17:16
Guest87  Temporary failure resolving 'deb.devuan.org'17:16
Guest87Err:2 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates InRelease17:16
gnarfaceno no17:16
Guest87  Temporary failure resolving 'deb.devuan.org'17:16
Guest87Err:3 https://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security InRelease17:16
Guest87  Temporary failure resolving 'deb.devuan.org'17:16
Guest87Reading package lists... Done17:16
Guest87Building dependency tree... Done17:16
Guest87Reading state information... Done17:16
gnarfacedon't paste long pastes in here17:16
gnarfaceuse paste.debian.net17:16
gnarfacethere's anti-flooding bots17:16
gnarfaceyou might get a timeout17:17
Guest87i didnt know17:17
gnarfacealright, some quick sanity checks17:17
gnarfacemake sure network-manager isn't running17:18
gnarfacedo you know how to do that?17:19
Guest87doas /update-rc.d network-manager disable ?17:19
gnarfaceuh, that might work17:19
gnarfacethat might work to disable it, but you'll also still have to stop it17:20
Guest87how to stop17:20
gnarfacei guess try: doas /etc/init.d/network-manager stop17:20
gnarfaceassuming you have doas installed...17:21
gnarfaceif you have avahi-daemon installed, stop that too17:21
gnarface(unless you know what it does017:21
gnarface)17:21
Guest87Stopping network connection manager: NetworkManager already stopped.17:22
gnarfaceok good17:22
Guest87whats next?17:22
gnarfacedoas /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon stop17:23
Guest87Stopping Avahi mDNS/DNS-SD Daemon: avahi-daemon17:23
gnarfacedoas /etc/init.d/iwd stop && doas /etc/init.d/iwd start17:23
gnarfaceis it wifi? you might have to do this for wpasupplicant too17:24
Guest87done17:24
gnarfaceis it wifi? you might have to do this for wpasupplicant too17:24
gnarfacenot sure if you got that message17:25
Guest87ty17:25
gnarfaceseems like it worked though, try "apt-get update" now?17:25
Guest87Failed to fetch17:26
gnarfacehmm17:26
gnarfaceis this daedalus?17:26
Guest87yes17:27
gnarfacewhat does "nslookup deb.devuan.org" say?17:27
gnarfacedon't paste here17:27
Guest87deb.rr...17:28
gnarfacejust compare it to this https://paste.debian.net/1340280/17:28
gnarfaceif yours is wildly different, try a different DNS server17:28
Guest87how to17:29
gnarfacecan't you set it in iwd?17:29
gnarfacehow are you getting your DNS server currently?17:29
gnarfacedefaults in the wifi router?17:29
Guest87i dont have router i think17:30
Guest87modem connected with directly cable17:30
Guest87to port(not computer)17:31
gnarfacesame thing, modems have built in routers these days17:31
gnarfaceyou're connected to a DSL or cable router?17:31
gnarfaceby wifi, right?17:31
Guest87wi-fi17:31
gnarfaceand you're using DHCP?17:31
Guest87yes17:31
Guest87probably17:31
gnarfaceso first check to see if you can change it in the modem, otherwise you'll have to figure out if iwd can do it17:32
gnarfaceyou can also just change /etc/resolv.conf directly with a text editor, but network-manager and i presume also iwd would overwrite any changes you made17:33
gnarface(or maybe just error and crash)17:33
Guest87also this are working #deb http://devuan.sedf.de/merged daedalus-security main17:33
Guest87#deb http://devuan.sedf.de/merged daedalus-updates main17:33
Guest87#deb http://devuan.sedf.de/merged daedalus main17:33
gnarfaceyou sure they're working? they're just commented out, so if they're not showing errors that's because they're not running17:34
gnarfacethe # at the beginning of the line makes the parser skip those lines17:35
Guest87when there is no #devuan they are working17:35
gnarfaceinteresting17:35
gnarfaceyea, my current guess is that it's still the DNS server17:35
Guest87how to fix it17:37
Guest87are there mirror trustable mirrors17:37
Guest87other?17:37
gnarfacehttp://deb.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt17:38
gnarfacehere's the mirror list17:38
gnarfaceyou can use any of them directly and skip deb.devuan.org17:38
Guest87i cant see list :(17:38
Guest87how to fix via dns17:39
gnarfacelet's try changing /etc/resolv.conf temporarily as a test17:39
Guest87k17:39
gnarfacecan you see what's in there?17:40
Guest87yes17:40
gnarfacedo you trust google?17:40
Guest87somewhat17:40
gnarfaceas a temporary fix, you could in theory, just change that file to have only this line: nameserver 8.8.8.817:41
gnarfacethat's google's public DNS17:41
gnarfaceif that works, then we know for sure your ISP's DNS servers are bunk17:41
gnarface(alternately you could install your own DNS server, but that's a bit more complicated)17:42
Guest87Certificate verification failed: The certificate is NOT trusted. The name in the certificate does not match the expected.17:42
gnarface???17:42
gnarfaceoh, your system clock might be way off17:43
Guest87nope :(17:43
gnarfaceyou sure?17:43
gnarfacetimezone right too?17:43
Guest87i checked17:43
gnarfacehmm, weird...17:44
gnarfaceyou're getting that error from apt-get, right?17:44
Guest87both apt and apt-get17:45
gnarfacemaybe your devuan keyring packages are out of date or missing?17:45
Guest87i will come with name as dengesizkokarca need to reboot17:45
dengesizkokarcai got back17:47
gnarfacedengesizkokarca: check "dpkg -l |grep keyring"17:52
gnarfacedengesizkokarca: oh! i just noticed, you used "https" ... that doesn't work with deb.devuan.org17:52
gnarfacethat might have been the problem the whole time, just change https to http in your sources.list and it should work17:53
dengesizkokarcasolved17:54
dengesizkokarcabut there were two problems17:54
gnarfacewell, i guess not the only problem, if you changed to 8.8.8.8 first then your ISP's DNS servers are also bunk17:54
dengesizkokarcadnf and https17:54
dengesizkokarcadns17:54
dengesizkokarcai will use chattr +i for resolv17:55
gnarfacenow you can get the mirror list and pick one directly if you want, some of them do support https if you connect by their normal domain17:55
gnarfacethe dns round-robin breaks ssl17:55
dengesizkokarcaty again and again17:56
gnarfaceno problem17:56
dengesizkokarcahave a good day night17:57
debmanhello devuan18:13
debmancan any1 help me?18:13
gnarfacedebman: state your problem, maybe someone can help18:15
gnarfacein general on IRC it's a good idea to just ask the question rather than asking for permission18:16
debmanim trying to build a system, that doesnt use control groups...18:17
gnarfacehmm, is devuan using control groups by default? i'm not so clear on that...18:22
debmanyes18:23
debmanit's standard18:23
debmanbut, I think that one way to circumvent it, is to build the system for root only, which I have done before with devuan in the past18:23
debmanthat's a cheap hack though..18:23
debmana more sophisticated approach, would require an understanding of how it is integrated into the OS18:23
* golinux has never heard "control groups" mentioned either . . .18:25
debmandont worry guys, I am going to learn how to do it, then I can teach you18:26
gnarfacei was under the impression that it was in the kernel but it's not being used unless you tell it to18:27
debmanyes it's in the kernel, but it is considered a standard in OS internals18:27
debmanso for systemd systems, for example, it is a standard part of the underlying system18:28
debmanit's not merely in the kernel in other words18:28
gnarfacewell you could build a kernel without it and see if devaun still works18:28
debmanim going to...18:28
debmanitll take me an hour merely18:29
debmanthen everything will break18:29
debmaneven though, once upon a time, cgroups didn't exist in linux18:29
gnarfacemaybe everything will break, but i'm not so sure of that18:29
debmanit could be, that specific programs, will break18:30
gnarfacecgroups aren't my area of expertise though, i'm sure there's someone else around here that would know better18:30
debmanhave you ever built a custom kernel for devuan?18:30
gnarfaceyes18:30
debmanits been a long time since I used it18:30
gnarfaceit's not different from debian18:30
gnarfaceyou should be able to follow their instructions18:31
gnarfacejust using apt-* and dpkg-* tools18:31
debmanI like to work on the system outside of apt completely18:32
debmanthats what makes debian really nice actually18:32
debmanits easy to do that18:32
debmanother systems aren't so nice18:32
gnarfacewell you can but i'm not sure it really makes things easier18:32
gnarfaceeither way it should be the same as debian in that regard18:32
debmanits the only way to really customize things, after a certain point18:32
debmanu can only do so much with built in tools, in other words18:33
debmanif you dont use apt at all for example18:33
debmanresources for using linux are still generally compatible with debian18:33
gnarfacewell it's just the easiest way to get the kernel source package and all the build deps18:34
debmanso it's very easy to work with18:34
debmanyou never tried root only devuan?18:34
debmanits a totally different experience...18:34
debmanlimitations, you didnt know existed, evaporate18:35
gnarfacei've booted into single user mode to repair things before, but running everything as root is kinda a noob move18:35
gnarfaceyou really should consider security18:35
debmanthat's how kali linux works...18:35
debmanmade for experts18:35
debmanthats the opposite of "noob"18:36
gnarfaceheh18:36
debmanI guess there's apt-get and wget, xD18:37
debmanthey rhyme... that's nice18:37
debmanand do the same thing basically18:37
gnarfacedoes anyone know if cgroups are actually being used by default for stuff in the base install?18:40
fsmithredgnarface, I see the following for 'mount |grep cgroup18:45
fsmithred'18:45
fsmithred on my desktop system but not in a booted no-X live-iso18:45
fsmithredcgroup2 on /sys/fs/cgroup type cgroup2 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,nsdelegate)\18:45
fsmithredminus the final backslash18:45
fsmithredthe no-X is also no dbus and no *kit18:46
gnarfacehmm, cgroups show up as mounts?18:47
gnarfacei see no cgroup in the output of mount on my system here18:48
gnarfacemaybe elogind is doing it?18:49
rwpI just happened to have a default Devuan 5 Daedalus install here and /sys/fs/cgroup is mounted by default.  (slim is also running so perhaps slim did it.)19:05
paculinoIs there a way to override the ii/rc stuff for packages?21:44
paculinoI switched from a github release to a proper apt repo, but wanted to keep configurations all the same. It also applies to going from apt managed to locally compiled21:45

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