| rrq | dvbst: the reason for booting up with init=/bin/bash is that it lets you do forensics within the broken bootup system. It's sometimes better than doing guesswork from log files. | 01:52 |
|---|---|---|
| rrq | in particular it uses the kernel of the broken system, and the root filesystem of the broken system. | 01:53 |
| rrq | but runs bash as pid 1 instead of starting /sbin/init | 01:56 |
| dvbst | rrq, do i do it through grub? | 02:25 |
| rrq | well a once-off I would do by editing the boot commandline at the boot splash... | 02:26 |
| rrq | when the splash comes up press "e" to edit the command line, then editi it, then Ctrl-X I think | 02:26 |
| rrq | doing so means it's just for that boot up | 02:27 |
| rrq | btw I have fresch chimaera installed with lxqt+runit (+DE+standard utils) and I'm about to do the upgrading | 02:28 |
| rrq | I'm also educating myself about runit :) | 02:29 |
| dvbst | sounds epic | 02:32 |
| rrq | from the man page it appears the runit stage 2 dies and restarts; that something makes runsvdir terminate... will see if I get the same issue | 02:35 |
| rrq | did you complete the upgrade and ran into problem, or is this during the update? | 02:35 |
| dvbst | completed and then | 02:42 |
| dvbst | the update itself went pretty seemless | 02:42 |
| rrq | ok ... will take me a few minutes more... | 02:44 |
| rrq | while installing, I noticed deadalus-proposed-updates is not mentioned as a sources.list point.. you didn;t add that I guess? | 02:46 |
| rrq | deb://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-proposed-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware | 02:47 |
| rrq | I haven;t added that yet, but it's possible it contains some package updates | 02:48 |
| rrq | hmm the upgrade started a serial line tty (?) | 02:49 |
| rrq | (doing dist-upgrade now) | 02:53 |
| dvbst | no i for sure didnt add deadalus-proposed-updates | 02:58 |
| rrq | on dist-upgrade it installed sddm while keeping lightdm ... did you select lightdm as the default? | 03:07 |
| rrq | (I did) | 03:13 |
| rrq | hmm needs more than 7G disk to upgrade... | 03:15 |
| rrq | obviously lxqt isn't a minimalist setup ... I cleaned out stuff early rather than restarting but rather tight filesystem | 03:17 |
| rrq | ok. not getting your issue on reboot | 03:20 |
| rrq | I see that if you can edit the boot command line (at the splash) you can add the word "single" (without the quotes) to it; then the runit boot up will run sulogin on tty1 early in stage 2 | 03:33 |
| rrq | hmm ... no, maybe not; might be only when it's run under a different init | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | maybe it needs to be runitdir=single | 03:38 |
| rrq | mmm .. or yes, maybe; if stage 1 runs, then that "single" on boot commandline should apply | 03:39 |
| rrq | (because stage 1 creates /run/runit.stopit, which is needed in stage 2 for that "single" feature | 03:40 |
| dvbst | i didnt have a choice on dist-upgrade of which dm i want, i had a prompt about some apt config file and grub, but thats all that there was | 03:44 |
| fsmithred | just tested runitdir=single and it brings me to "give root password or ctrl-d" | 03:44 |
| rrq | dvbst: can you try that? .. adding "single" to boot command line (on the splash) | 03:45 |
| dvbst | not now | 03:46 |
| rrq | ok. which "display manager" do you use? sddm? lightdm? | 03:46 |
| dvbst | you guys told me to flash a daedalus liveusb so now dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda is running on that usb stick, it is currently on 30gb out of 60 | 03:47 |
| dvbst | lightdm | 03:47 |
| rrq | ok. hmm I wonder why you didn't get that choice dialog during dist-upgrade | 03:48 |
| gnarface | hmm, i've had a sudden recollection of a issue with slim crashing on a loop because of missing nvidia drivers at one point in a previous release... | 03:48 |
| dvbst | and let me be clear, this system is at least a year old, and last time it was updated (before that update 3 days ago) was before 2023 christmass | 03:49 |
| gnarface | in general, you're advised to make sure you've fully upgraded any installed release to all the latest packages from that release before upgrading to the following release | 03:50 |
| dvbst | so on the same day i pulled half a year worth of updates, because the guide said to do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade on the current system before moving further with the upgrade to 5 | 03:50 |
| gnarface | but, only one year old doesn't seem like that far out of date | 03:50 |
| dvbst | i mean, on arch, 2 weeks of not updating is so old that the system falls apart | 03:50 |
| gnarface | hmm, yea that was the right process, if you finished it and it completed without errors that should be fine... | 03:50 |
| gnarface | that's one of the things debian's release cycles are specifically designed to mitigate | 03:51 |
| gnarface | i'd be curious about what exact changes in the grub and apt configs you mentioned it complaining about, since there might have been evidence of some forgotten customizations that could explain this all, but i guess it's too late to find out now | 03:53 |
| rrq | (biab) | 03:53 |
| dvbst | im pretty sure that i installed this system in 2022, and updated it fairly regularly id say, like once per month at least, sometimes more frequently, but after christmass i forgot about it | 03:54 |
| gnarface | i've upgraded multiple systems here from far longer ago and across multiple consecutive releases | 03:54 |
| dvbst | the apt config i inspected, it was the same file as i currently had but it added more comments explaining things, so theres no difference, i chose to pull the new one so that its more clear if i actually go ahead and try to change something there in the future | 03:55 |
| gnarface | maybe the graphical login manager actually is crashing on a loop and that's what's causing your console blanking issue, seems plausible. if that's the case, launching in single user mode should let you fix things up | 03:56 |
| dvbst | but with the grub one i couldnt inspect cuz it was binaries i think, or at least all that it said was that the files arent the same and nothing else, so for as long as ive been on linux, changes like that in grub never meant anything good cuz it messes up the partition uuids and stuff so i chose to keep the old one | 03:57 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 03:58 |
| dvbst | honestly now that you mention it, i wonder if i had the nvidia drivers installed would the dm just pop up normally and only the tty would be littered on, which would allow me to log into the system and do stuff | 03:59 |
| gnarface | yea, since you get past grub, i'm leaning towards the issue being a problem such as that with the graphical login manager (aka "session manager") here, in which case the solution would be to either install the nvidia drivers from the non-free section, or just switch to a different session manager (or do without a session manager) | 04:00 |
| dvbst | because the error logs and the gui are seperate | 04:00 |
| gnarface | but either way you will likely have to or at least want to edit your kernel command-line parameter | 04:00 |
| gnarface | which must be done in the grub config | 04:00 |
| gnarface | yes, the GUI errors will most likely be going into /var/log/Xorg.*.log or in your user's home directory in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.*.log | 04:02 |
| dvbst | i still can try what i usually to, which is: wget the driver from the nvidias website, apt-get install linux-something something amd64 something something headers, then ./the nvidia driver, click through the wizzard and reboot | 04:02 |
| gnarface | and if your session manager is crashing on a loop, the files there probably still have a record of it | 04:02 |
| gnarface | no, don't use the nvidia shell script from their website | 04:03 |
| dvbst | why not? thats what i always do | 04:03 |
| gnarface | that will just set you up for another pitfall in the future; it's not deb dependency aware. in fact, if you did that on your old install at any time before upgrading, it could be very well the root cause of this problem you're having now | 04:03 |
| dvbst | yea i did that at least like 20 times on that system | 04:04 |
| gnarface | bad idea. always use the packages from the repo, unless you're building your own and know what you're doing | 04:04 |
| gnarface | nvidia staff, - and this can't be understated - do not | 04:04 |
| dvbst | why do you not trust anything at all thats not from the repo? the drivers i need just arent there | 04:05 |
| gnarface | usually the drivers you need are in fact there or in backports | 04:05 |
| gnarface | and why is from literally decades of experience | 04:05 |
| dvbst | what is the difference between the stuff from the repo and the stuff from their website then? the drivers, steam, discord and all that are closed source stuff so its not like you can really change anything in it, unless by "the drivers that work for your gpu" you mean the noveau stuff or however its called, if yes then id rather stick to the stuff from their website honestly | 04:08 |
| gnarface | if you really "need" newer nvidia drivers than are even in backports, and can't wait for them to reach backports (which is usually an error of judgment, but i'll concede there's occasionally those situations, if you're a gamer) then you'd honestly be better off just running the unstable release, so you can at least use natively packaged debs that won't always hose your system | 04:08 |
| gnarface | no, the difference is the deb package dependencies themselves | 04:08 |
| gnarface | what you're missing is that nvidia's shell script doesn't give a shit about upgradeability | 04:09 |
| gnarface | it doesn't even bother testing for that | 04:09 |
| gnarface | they've got no mechanism to keep it from hosing your installation's internal package dependency tree and they don't care; they expect you to just reinstall | 04:09 |
| dvbst | i see | 04:10 |
| gnarface | the packages themselves are the change in question here | 04:10 |
| gnarface | and no, we're not talking about nouveau, but that's a completely different case, nouveau driver crashes could be causing these exact same symptoms, for different reasons | 04:10 |
| gnarface | so, the first thing you want to do when you boot successfully into single user mode is verify whether you're using nouveau or nvidia drivers, and verify which session manager it's actually trying to start (i know you said lightdm but let's make sure0 | 04:12 |
| gnarface | ) | 04:12 |
| gnarface | lightdm is usually the one with the least problems but you never know | 04:13 |
| dvbst | why isnt this information more easily available? i had no idea that backports and all the other stuff even exists, and no, i dont really game much these days, i used to play a lot when i was younger but after +100 hours in everything, playing games just isnt fun anymore, id rather go outside and play volleyball or something, i wanted to sell this gpu but i dont really have a replacement so in the end i didnt bother | 04:13 |
| dvbst | im 100% sure im using the nvidia drivers and lightdm, i dont have anything else installed | 04:14 |
| dvbst | also i went kinda offtopic with this last message, im sorry | 04:14 |
| gnarface | i didn't do it, so this is not meant to be an excuse, but some information is just easier passed like this, for various economic and logistical reasons that are far older than modern society | 04:14 |
| gnarface | people are still using IRC because you just can't actually improve upon this | 04:15 |
| dvbst | i still find it crazy that you dont have documentation on devuan.org, void has documentation and they even have a web interface where you can check what packages you can install with xbps and whats the current latest version there | 04:15 |
| gnarface | and yes, it's off topic | 04:15 |
| gnarface | some of this information is probably available just not very well indexed by google, and that's probably at least partially google's fault | 04:16 |
| gnarface | for example, youc an check packages at pkginfo.devuan.org | 04:16 |
| gnarface | there's also a lot of info ni the forum | 04:17 |
| gnarface | a lot of us have learned from debian wiki pages that have since been deleted | 04:17 |
| gnarface | not all that info has been ported, copied or replicated - probably a failure of the community as a whole | 04:18 |
| dvbst | i would just add a simple page like "basic information to get started" on the main page and then explain all the devuan stuff you have going on here like the backports, the dev1galaxy forum (why is it even like that? was that the cheapest domain or something?), the irc, how the releases work and all that in one place thats easy to find and read | 04:18 |
| gnarface | heh, yes the domain was setup before hand by a community member then donated to the project | 04:19 |
| gnarface | i was concerned about the optics myself and was informed they want you to ask about that in person | 04:19 |
| gnarface | and the backports thing is a debian thing - that's an example of documentation you can get from debian still | 04:19 |
| gnarface | so much effort was made to preserve the original debian behaviors from the wheezy release that for the most part you can still rely on debian documentation except where systemd is concerned | 04:20 |
| gnarface | if there's something you can't find, try checking the archive.org records of the debian wiki | 04:21 |
| gnarface | and all these questions were questions i originally asked of #debian years ago | 04:23 |
| gnarface | and i was given basically these same answers, plus: | 04:23 |
| gnarface | https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes | 04:23 |
| gnarface | https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ | 04:23 |
| gnarface | these two links, which you're expected to read first | 04:23 |
| gnarface | (and after a long argument someone eventually conceded that they had in fact obfuscated the important information on purpose "to make sure people were serious" - which i agree is misguided) | 04:24 |
| gnarface | i don't really have much to add to that, but we should really continue this in #devuan-offtopic if you do | 04:24 |
| dvbst | and also, pretty much the only good guide on how this works and how to get started with unix systems as a whole in on the dragonflybsd's website, im sad that i found it after i learnt all of this the hard way, but im glad i found it in general so that i can show it to my friends who are just starting out, and its not like this is easy to find either, most people when they get started think that unix and linux is the same thing, and the only thing you can | 04:24 |
| dvbst | find when youre a new user is why you should install xubuntu instead of kubuntu | 04:24 |
| dvbst | the debian website looks like poop, you have to go back to your search engine and type "debian bookworm 11 12" to find out if bookworm is the 11th release or the 12th release because finding that on their website is just impossible | 04:27 |
| dvbst | and yea sorry for going offtopic, thats all | 04:27 |
| rrq | dvbst: if you can boot with "single" we could check what breaks | 04:29 |
| dvbst | im still clearing the usb, its on 50gb now, just 10 more | 04:30 |
| gnarface | dvbst: bookworm is the 12th release, i'm sorry that i can't make it any easier than just straight up answering your questions. i realize that means you have to think to ask me first, before you make a mess, lol. even if i wrote it down on a wiki somewhere, i doubt it'd make it any easier, and that's one more courtesy than you'd get from the debian people, i guarantee it | 04:30 |
| rrq | the first check would be to try the command: /lib/runit/run_sysv_scripts /etc/rc2.d | 04:30 |
| rrq | and see what happens | 04:31 |
| dvbst | i already have the daedalus live iso ready, so im just waiting for the usb to clear and then i can test all of this | 04:31 |
| dvbst | because im clearing it on the live iso on that computer | 04:31 |
| gnarface | it really probably wasn't necessary to zero the whole thing, but i can understand wanting to do that for the sake of paranoia | 04:34 |
| dvbst | so first of all, i had issues with the liveiso not even booting because i flashed the iso right onto a usb that had another iso flashed on it before | 04:35 |
| gnarface | yea, there's a rare possibility something like that might happen in certain cases, when you flash a small live iso into the footprint of a larger iso, especially if the former has blank spots in it in places, but you'd still only have pre-zero up to about one whole filesystem block past the end of the new iso's footprint | 04:37 |
| gnarface | zeroing the whole thing out is fine but it's overkill | 04:37 |
| dvbst | and second of all, it is some random usb i found laying around that i got from someone who may or may not have put something that could damage my computer if i plug it straight into my actual system, if i plug it into a live iso and it does something to it, then ill just reboot the pc and its all good again | 04:38 |
| dvbst | it is a rare possibility, but it happened to me 4 times already | 04:38 |
| gnarface | to be absolutely clear, some random USB you found lying around could absolutely fry your computer even with just zeroes in the storage | 04:38 |
| gnarface | but wanting to zero the whole thing just to make sure it's got no bad blocks is fine motivation too | 04:39 |
| dvbst | oh well | 04:39 |
| gnarface | just... not strictly necessary for this task | 04:39 |
| rrq | actually, first test should be: runsvchdir default | 04:39 |
| dvbst | by damage i meant that there is something that would execute on my system when i just plug it in, not physicly fry the board | 04:40 |
| dvbst | but good to know, ill keep that in mind for next time | 04:40 |
| rrq | ... and see what happens; that command shouldn't exit I think | 04:40 |
| dvbst | rrq, i type that in the grub console right? | 04:41 |
| gnarface | dvbst: yea, as long as what you wrote to the front of the disk is what is actually booting on it, loose data from an old image trailing the new image's footprint just needs a tiny bit of empty space as a gap between it and your intended boot image to make sure it's not a problem | 04:41 |
| rrq | no, you type "single" on the boot command line | 04:41 |
| rrq | then boot, which should come to a root command line (sulogin) in the beginning of runit stage 2 | 04:42 |
| dvbst | so how do you want me to execute that command? on the chroot? | 04:43 |
| rrq | that's where you run: runsvchdir default | 04:43 |
| dvbst | so its not the first test, the first test is "single" in the grub command line | 04:43 |
| rrq | fair enough :) | 04:44 |
| dvbst | i need to check if that even does something | 04:44 |
| dvbst | no stress, you have time to make yourself some tea or food or both before its done zeroing out | 04:45 |
| gnarface | dvbst: while you're editing it to add single, remove any references to quiet or splash, just to help make it easier to see what's going on | 04:45 |
| dvbst | if the only thing youre doing is helping me here ofc | 04:45 |
| dvbst | no theres nothing, no quiet or splash or anything, when i tried to put in the nomodeset then that was the only thing in there | 04:46 |
| dvbst | i think | 04:46 |
| dvbst | ill check it and tell you | 04:46 |
| gnarface | how are you getting there? you get to the grub menu and you press "e" to edit the default entry, right? | 04:47 |
| rrq | hmmm the actual boot command line (of the boot splash) has lots on it | 04:48 |
| dvbst | gnarface, yes i am | 04:48 |
| gnarface | it should give you a prompt pre-populated with the existing kernel command-line i thought... | 04:48 |
| rrq | yes, you push e, then move to the "linux .." line and add the work single to it | 04:48 |
| rrq | word | 04:49 |
| gnarface | oh, it's probably a multi-line entry, so you might have to move the cursor down too | 04:49 |
| gnarface | i remember having problems in some cases seeing the whole thing at once, kinda having to navigate around with only a tiny section of it in view, ymmv... | 04:49 |
| gnarface | i think it uses emacs command-line bindings, so if the up/down arrow keys aren't working try ctrl-p, ctrl-n | 04:50 |
| gnarface | well, i'm gonna have to afk pretty soon here but i'll be back later | 04:55 |
| dvbst | okay | 04:57 |
| gnarface | just make sure you report your results here so we can see them later | 04:59 |
| gnarface | and try to stay connected to see any responses if you can | 04:59 |
| rrq | I tried single login on my VM... works fine but it'll take a bit of checking to find what's broken | 05:01 |
| dvbst | yes yes, you got it | 05:03 |
| rrq | do you have a file /etc/X11/default-display-manager | 05:17 |
| rrq | and does it say /usr/sbin/lightdm | 05:18 |
| dvbst | okay so remember when we dpkg-reconfigured grub in the chroot? | 05:52 |
| dvbst | the boot command line options are now different | 05:53 |
| dvbst | and now there is something here, not just 2 lines | 05:53 |
| dvbst | im just gonna add "single" there and boot | 05:54 |
| dvbst | it says it cant find command single after i ctrl+x | 05:55 |
| dvbst | yes i think thats all im gonna try tonight, its almost 6 here, ive seen both the sunset and the sunrise while we were trobuleshooting my computer today | 05:58 |
| rrq | ? | 06:02 |
| rrq | the boot splash comes up as the very first things after "reboot" | 06:03 |
| rrq | that is wher you press "e" | 06:03 |
| rrq | but maybe tomorrow | 06:03 |
| temp64 | Hi, what would be the best way to install Devuan with root on LUKS + F2FS and SecureBoot enabled? AFAIK the official installer doesn't support F2FS as root and I was thinking I might be able to use debootstrap from a live image USB, but I'm really not sure where to begin. | 11:12 |
| fsmithred | temp64, all the devuan live isos have debootstrap installed. And you can use other filesystems if you use the cli version of refractainstaller to do the installation. | 12:04 |
| fsmithred | Set /etc/refractainstaller.conf to "do not format" and pre-format the partitions. Then select those for the install. | 12:05 |
| temp64 | pre-format meaning create the partitions and the filesystems, right? | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | If you figure out how to do secure boot with devuan, please tell us how. | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | yes | 12:06 |
| temp64 | ok | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | gparted cfdisk or gdisk | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | oh... | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | that's gonna be tricky with lucks | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | I don't recall what "do not format" does when you select to encrypt the partition. | 12:08 |
| fsmithred | After I finish my first coffee, I'll look at it. | 12:08 |
| fsmithred | oh right, you were going to do debootstrap. Forget about refractainstaller. | 12:09 |
| temp64 | actually, I'm only trying to meet the corporate requirements so that I may use a Linux laptop instead of a mac and I just found out ThinkPads have a "hard disk password" option in the BIOS | 12:09 |
| temp64 | it's supposed to use Opal so I don't think I need LUKS in this case | 12:10 |
| fsmithred | Make the partitions, make the encrypted container, open the encrypted container, make the filesystem and then run debootstrap. | 12:10 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if anyone has got devuan working with secure boot. | 12:11 |
| temp64 | does Devuan use this shim bootloader thing? I've read that motherboards come with shim keys by default | 12:12 |
| temp64 | it's probably why I could boot Fedora without disabling SecureBoot | 12:13 |
| fsmithred | we use all debian packages except those that require systemd. | 12:13 |
| fsmithred | yes shim | 12:13 |
| temp64 | I might not even need to do anything then | 12:14 |
| fsmithred | have you ever done a debootsrap install | 12:19 |
| temp64 | once or twice | 12:19 |
| fsmithred | If you're familar with the arch install scripts, you can install those from the repo and use them. I'll find the package name if you want. Otherwise, you do stuff manually (the bind-mounts) | 12:21 |
| fsmithred | oh, it's called arch-install-scripts. I've never used it. | 12:23 |
| temp64 | right now I'm slightly confused because `mount -o atgc,gc_merge,lazytime /dev/nvme0n1p3 /mnt` returns "mount: mounting /dev/nvme0n1p3 on /mnt failed: No such file or directory" even though both the drive and /mnt are there | 12:24 |
| fsmithred | that is weird. I don't recognize any of your options. | 12:25 |
| temp64 | oh, seems like the BusyBox needed some help with `-t f2fs` | 12:25 |
| temp64 | BusyBox mount* | 12:25 |
| fsmithred | why are you in busysbox? | 12:26 |
| temp64 | that's what Devuan installer dropped me into when I selected the "Execute shell" option or however it's called | 12:26 |
| fsmithred | oh | 12:26 |
| fsmithred | you might be able to switch to bash if that would help. | 12:27 |
| temp64 | it's not there. it shouldn't be an issue though | 12:28 |
| temp64 | oh i'm boned | 12:41 |
| temp64 | I can't even see wlan0 and the laptop has no ethernet ports | 12:41 |
| dvbst | the boot splash, you mean the grub boot splash right? thats where i did it | 12:42 |
| fsmithred | temp64, maybe run through the installer to let it set up the network and choose mirror, then drop to shell? | 12:48 |
| fsmithred | do you know what wireless chip you have? | 12:48 |
| fsmithred | dvbst, yeah, at the grub boot menu press e | 12:50 |
| temp64 | I have no idea but I rebooted and selected the rescue mode option which presented me with a Wi-Fi setup menu, so it works now | 12:52 |
| fsmithred | cool | 12:52 |
| fsmithred | lspci will show you your hardware | 12:53 |
| temp64 | it's probably an AX200 or something else running with iwlwifi | 12:53 |
| fsmithred | you'll need to install the right firmware package | 12:54 |
| fsmithred | oh yeah, you said thinkpad. firmware-iwlwifi is probably right. | 12:54 |
| temp64 | does it look right? `debootstrap --arch amd64 daedalus /mnt http://devuan.sakamoto.pl/merged daedalus` | 13:00 |
| temp64 | actually, is there a script to select the fastest mirror like the one Gentoo guys use? | 13:02 |
| rrq | dvbst: when you type "e" to the boot splash, it should bring up a display with many lines, and in particular one starting wiht "linux" and ending with "quiet"... all within an "ascii frame" | 13:08 |
| rrq | is that what you get? | 13:08 |
| dvbst | ok this is really wierd | 13:19 |
| dvbst | so one time i boot and its a few commands, most notably "echo Loading initramfs something something" and stuff like that | 13:20 |
| dvbst | (my system is encrypted if i didnt say that already) | 13:20 |
| dvbst | but other time its just 2 simple lines and thats it | 13:20 |
| dvbst | and they read | 13:20 |
| dvbst | setparams "UEFI Firmware Settings" | 13:21 |
| dvbst | fwsetup | 13:21 |
| dvbst | and that is the whole thing | 13:21 |
| dvbst | im in the grub boot menu, and i press e | 13:21 |
| dvbst | thats what i do | 13:21 |
| rrq | (oh.. uefi ... I installed legacy; have to do it again) | 13:22 |
| dvbst | but when i reboot, press e on the grub menu, same way i did it before, sometimes it shows more options | 13:23 |
| rrq | it's supposed to be consistent | 13:23 |
| dvbst | thats what i thought too | 13:24 |
| rrq | it'll take me a couple of minutes to have an uefi chimaera install... then upgrade .. | 13:25 |
| dvbst | yes its literally random, the other one starts with setparams "Devuan GNU/Linux", do you want me to type out the whole thing? | 13:27 |
| rrq | not needed form me... fsmithred might have some idea about what's happening | 13:28 |
| rrq | some efi bios try to be helpful and remember stuff from prior boots | 13:30 |
| rrq | btw did you check for file /etc/X11/default-display-manager ? | 13:32 |
| dvbst | yes so when i add "single" on the boot splash with just 2 lines and saying UEFI then that just crushes and puts me back in the bios, and when i add "single" to the one saying Devuan then it says that its a command not found | 13:32 |
| dvbst | no i havent yet, ill do that now | 13:32 |
| rrq | (I'm halfway on the chimaera install) | 13:33 |
| dvbst | the /etc/X11/default-display-manager just has /usr/sbin/lightdm in it | 13:41 |
| dvbst | ok, so the next thing we wanted to try was to install the nvidia drivers right? and if i dont do it through the .run file on their website but through backports if thats what it was, then how do i do it? | 13:43 |
| rrq | graphics is not my thing ... gnarface: ^^ | 13:45 |
| dvbst | so now we wait | 13:47 |
| rrq | there seems to be something odd with your grub boot though. when pressing "e" on the boot splash you should get an "ascci frame" around a heap of text, with a line starting "linux" ending "quiet" | 13:50 |
| rrq | would be the 6:6h line or so | 13:50 |
| rrq | it sounds like you get something else | 13:51 |
| rrq | (I'm still upgrading) | 13:51 |
| fsmithred | temp64, yeah that line looks right. I don't know a way to automatically find the fastest mirror. | 13:56 |
| fsmithred | dvbst, rrq I'm pretty sure I've seen different output at different boot times, but I've never seen anything but a boot entry when I press e at the menu. | 13:58 |
| fsmithred | I mean output at the beginning of boot on different occasions. | 13:58 |
| Xenguy | temp64, There's 'netselect-apt' , but I actually have never tried it | 13:58 |
| fsmithred | oh! apt-panopticon has a column of speed ranges for the mirrors: http://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 14:00 |
| temp64 | in that case, either the mirror or debootstrap must have done something wrong because I chrooted into a system without /etc/passwd :| | 14:00 |
| fsmithred | ew | 14:00 |
| temp64 | Now I did `debootstrap --arch amd64 cerest /mnt`, which installed a lot more packages than the previous command but failed with "W: Failure trying to run: chroot /mnt dpkg [...] --install /var/cache/apt/archives/adduser_3.137_all.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/cron-daemon-common_3.0pl1-189_all.deb" | 14:03 |
| temp64 | All I have to do before running debootstrap is mount the root and boot partitions, right? Or should I bind-mount the rest? | 14:04 |
| rrq | temp64: you may want to add --variant=minbase to the debootstrap | 14:04 |
| rrq | I'm not sure what you get without --variant=... | 14:04 |
| fsmithred | minbase is like un-checking standard system utilities in tasksel | 14:05 |
| fsmithred | You might want some of those utilities and they don't take up a lot of space. | 14:05 |
| temp64 | Never mind, my fault. I bet debootstrap tries to pull Debian binaries when you don't specify a Devuan mirror. /mnt/debootstrap/debootstrap.log says that cron-daemon-common depends on systemd | blah blah blah | 14:06 |
| fsmithred | uh, yeah, you need to use a devuan mirror. http://deb.devuan.org/merged | 14:09 |
| fsmithred | and you don't need to put "daedalus" at the end of that debootstrap command. It's already in the middle. | 14:09 |
| temp64 | oh, ok | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | I'm doing a ceres debootstrap right now | 14:11 |
| temp64 | same | 14:11 |
| temp64 | debootstrap defaults to SysV init, right? IIRC the "normal" installer prompts you to select from a few different init systems | 14:12 |
| fsmithred | yes | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | I think you could specify packages to get another init. Which one do you want? | 14:13 |
| temp64 | sysv is fine | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | oh... | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | what's the right option - maybe --exclude=cron-daemon-common | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | I forgot about that and I don't remember the exact issue, but skip it. | 14:15 |
| temp64 | it failed for you as well? | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | yes | 14:16 |
| fsmithred | Try this: debootstrap --arch amd64 --exclude=logrotate,cron,cron-daemon-common ceres /mnt http://deb.devuan.org/merged | 14:17 |
| dvbst | fsmithred, rrq, do you want pictures of what im seeing? | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | It's a known issue. If you were doing this in an installed system for from a live-cd you could install mmdebootstrap and use that instead. Here's a discussion about it: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6340 | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | dvbst, yes, but I could not see the pics you uploaded yesterday. | 14:20 |
| dvbst | how? | 14:20 |
| temp64 | "Base system installed successfully" | 14:20 |
| rrq | dvbst: sure you could try https://transfer.rrq.au | 14:21 |
| dvbst | you just paste the link in your browser and thats that | 14:21 |
| fsmithred | I could not access the web page. | 14:21 |
| fsmithred | I forget what message I got. | 14:21 |
| dvbst | rrq, yes, this link works, thats good. after what time do the files expire? | 14:22 |
| rrq | a week I think | 14:22 |
| fsmithred | works for me, too | 14:22 |
| rrq | which link? | 14:23 |
| fsmithred | rrq, when you have nothing better to do and get bored, you can make selectable expiration time. | 14:23 |
| Xenguy | There's also 0x0.st | 14:24 |
| rrq | yes 0x0.st handles for larger files | 14:27 |
| fsmithred | I uploaded a small .png file and get the following when I go to the link: html/template: "download.image.html" is undefined | 14:29 |
| rrq | use wget | 14:30 |
| rrq | not a browser | 14:30 |
| rrq | (or curl of course) | 14:31 |
| fsmithred | wget works | 14:31 |
| dvbst | https://transfer.rrq.au/NByR68rhok/lesstext.jpg | 14:39 |
| dvbst | https://transfer.rrq.au/8iuwNcnuvg/moretext.jpg | 14:39 |
| rrq | right; it suggests there's something with your graphics adapter... the "moretext.jpg" is almost compete, and there you see the "linux" line | 14:41 |
| rrq | use arrow keys to go dpwn to it, then cttrl-e to got to end, then add space and stable | 14:41 |
| dvbst | you want me to add space and then write the word "stable"? | 14:42 |
| rrq | yes at the end of that line | 14:43 |
| rrq | then ctrl-x to use the edited boot entry | 14:43 |
| dvbst | okay im on it | 14:43 |
| dvbst | error: cant find command "stable" | 14:45 |
| rrq | did you add that to the end of that line? | 14:45 |
| fsmithred | single | 14:45 |
| dvbst | i did | 14:45 |
| fsmithred | or maybe runitdir=single | 14:45 |
| rrq | right... I'm tired :) | 14:45 |
| rrq | no just "single" | 14:46 |
| dvbst | i already did that in both configurations | 14:46 |
| dvbst | in the lesstext it just goes back to bios and in moretext it says error: cant find command "single" | 14:46 |
| rrq | it would do that if "single" is on the wrong line | 14:47 |
| dvbst | its at the bottom of the file | 14:47 |
| rrq | the word needs to be at the end of that line that starts with "linux" | 14:47 |
| rrq | on that same line | 14:48 |
| dvbst | okay | 14:48 |
| fsmithred | ctrl-x to boot | 14:50 |
| fsmithred | then it should ask for root password or ctrl-d. Give root password. | 14:51 |
| * rrq too tired. bedtime | 14:53 | |
| fsmithred | you're up late | 14:53 |
| dvbst | oh wow okay that did something | 14:53 |
| dvbst | good night man | 14:53 |
| fsmithred | do you have a root prompt now? | 14:53 |
| dvbst | yes | 14:55 |
| dvbst | yes i do | 14:55 |
| dvbst | wow | 14:55 |
| dvbst | this is crazy | 14:55 |
| dvbst | what is this? ive never seen linux like this | 14:55 |
| dvbst | wow okay, i am in the system right now, all works | 14:56 |
| dvbst | and the 6.1 kernel | 14:57 |
| fsmithred | what do you mean? You never worked in plain old console? | 14:57 |
| dvbst | no its just that it spits out way different messages and ive never actually seen the "or press ctrl-d to continue" message | 14:59 |
| dvbst | i never logged into the system through something different than a tty or a dm | 15:00 |
| fsmithred | in sysvinit you get there by running 'init 1' | 15:00 |
| dvbst | okay so what do we do now? | 15:00 |
| fsmithred | single user mode | 15:00 |
| fsmithred | you are in the boiler room. You have control of the entire building. | 15:01 |
| fsmithred | What would you like to do? | 15:01 |
| fsmithred | 535.183.01-1~deb12u1 is the version of nvidia-driver in daedalus | 15:01 |
| fsmithred | I don't think there's any in backports | 15:01 |
| fsmithred | (I can't find it) | 15:02 |
| dvbst | the newest ones should be the open source ones and theyre named differently | 15:02 |
| fsmithred | wtf? open source nvidia? You don't mean nouveau do you? | 15:02 |
| dvbst | i dont | 15:03 |
| dvbst | https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-transitions-fully-towards-open-source-gpu-kernel-modules/ | 15:03 |
| dvbst | oh well, they still want us to use the .run script | 15:04 |
| fsmithred | I see nvidia-open-kernel-dkms and nvidia-open-kernel-source | 15:04 |
| dvbst | nvidia-kernel-source-open should be the thing | 15:05 |
| fsmithred | ok, I've used the nvidia .run script in the past. I usually had to specify a lower version of gcc to match the one used to compile the kernel. | 15:05 |
| fsmithred | and then you have to run it again every time there's a kernel update. Those are more frequent in the past few years. | 15:06 |
| dvbst | look lower in that article, it says how to get them on the debian based distros | 15:06 |
| dvbst | idk what -V does | 15:06 |
| dvbst | is it verbose? | 15:06 |
| dvbst | fsmithred: yes i know, ive been doing so for the last year | 15:07 |
| dvbst | but gnarface was really upset that i was doing so | 15:08 |
| fsmithred | yeah, because he's seen it screw up systems. I've only seen it be a pain in the ass. | 15:10 |
| fsmithred | I forget what else you were supposed to do. I think I told you to disable lightdm, but I guess you don't have to do that now that you can boot to single user. | 15:11 |
| dvbst | ive only seen it working fine, but im trusting you all cuz you all have been using this for longer than i live | 15:11 |
| fsmithred | I stopped using nvidia driver a few years ago. | 15:12 |
| fsmithred | switching from using the .run to packages or vice-versa is also a pain. | 15:13 |
| fsmithred | oh, what did you do with bluetooth? I think you said you deleted everything. | 15:13 |
| fsmithred | as opposed to removing the packages? | 15:13 |
| dvbst | i didnt delete everything, but the system thinks i did | 15:14 |
| dvbst | i just moved everything to another directory | 15:14 |
| dvbst | the only package i removed was avahi | 15:14 |
| fsmithred | better choice is to either remove the package or just disable the service. | 15:14 |
| dvbst | and thats right about all i did, i removed avahi and moved the bluetooth files so runit doesnt see them | 15:15 |
| fsmithred | update-service --remove /etc/sv/<service> | 15:15 |
| dvbst | moving the files is disabling the service essentially | 15:15 |
| fsmithred | I guess it depends on what you move. | 15:15 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if runit spits out errors if you have a dangling symlink. | 15:16 |
| dvbst | runit starts whatever is in the directories | 15:16 |
| dvbst | if its not in the directories then it doesnt know that it had to start it | 15:16 |
| dvbst | at least thats how i understand it | 15:16 |
| fsmithred | checking... | 15:17 |
| fsmithred | rm /etc/runit/runsvdir/default/bluetooth | 15:18 |
| fsmithred | would delete the link in the default state. | 15:18 |
| fsmithred | oh that's probably rm -r | 15:20 |
| dvbst | welp its one of the files i moved already | 15:23 |
| fsmithred | update-service --remove <service> does the same thing and also stops the running instance of the service. | 15:23 |
| fsmithred | so I think you're safe. | 15:23 |
| dvbst | it didnt matter if it was running or no because i did that on a chroot | 15:24 |
| dvbst | (i think) | 15:24 |
| fsmithred | and now you booted the system directly. | 15:24 |
| dvbst | yup | 15:26 |
| fsmithred | are you installing nvidia now? | 15:30 |
| dvbst | should i? | 15:31 |
| dvbst | i thought we were waiting for gnarface with that | 15:31 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that would complete your upgrade, wouldn't it? | 15:31 |
| fsmithred | you already had it installed in chimaera, right? | 15:31 |
| dvbst | yup | 15:32 |
| dvbst | do i do it with the .run from their website? | 15:33 |
| fsmithred | If you want to wait and find out how to do it properly with repo packages, then you could probably find and remove any nvidia stuff that's hanging around. I'm not sure if the --uninstall option on the .run script would do anyting after the upgrade. | 15:33 |
| fsmithred | I might get chastised for saying this, but it might make sense to do it the way you're using to doing it. | 15:34 |
| fsmithred | caveat: I have to leave soon. | 15:35 |
| dvbst | yea so ill just wait for everybody to get on again i guess | 15:35 |
| dvbst | i have time | 15:35 |
| dvbst | better wait and do it properly than rush it and mess it up | 15:35 |
| temp64 | is it safe to rm -rf /usr/lib/systemd? | 17:43 |
| cousin_luigi | temp64: What happens when the next package wants to install something in it? | 17:46 |
| temp64 | I'm not sure why Devuan packages install *.timers and *.services in the first place | 17:47 |
| temp64 | is there a sysv script that starts wpa_supplicant? | 19:09 |
| fluffywolf | I think wpa_supplicant is usually started by whatever manages the wifi connection (wicd, network-manager, ifupdown, etc) | 20:29 |
| cousin_luigi | Perhaps temp64 would like to start it up by hand on a headless system? | 20:30 |
| cousin_luigi | iwd might also be an option, if only a client is needed. | 20:31 |
| fluffywolf | then you configure it in /etc/interfaces and ifupdown does it, no? | 20:32 |
| temp64 | I have no idea how ifupdown works. In any other distro, wpa_supplicant is a daemon started just like cron, ntpd, dhcpcd and all the others so it seemed unusual that I couldn't find its scripts in /etc/init.d | 20:39 |
| fsmithred | I think the goal is to install to encrypted f2fs which is not available in the installers. I don't think headless is the plan (it's a laptop). | 20:39 |
| fsmithred | oh, hi. | 20:40 |
| temp64 | fsmithred: you asked earlier about SecureBoot, installing shim-signed and running grub-install seemed to be enough | 20:41 |
| rwp | Usually the instruction wpa-roam in the /etc/network/interfaces file is used to start it. | 20:41 |
| temp64 | I somehow installed dhcpcd and wpa_supplicant without having /etc/network/interfaces | 20:42 |
| rwp | The actual script is /etc/wpa_supplicant/ifupdown.sh which is called when wpa-roam is instructed. | 20:43 |
| rwp | It's symlink'd into place at /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/wpasupplicant | 20:43 |
| rwp | It's an event driven interface and everything through that path happens on-demand as events occur. | 20:44 |
| rwp | There are a zillion different valid ways of doing things. You don't have to use ifupdown. It's just been the traditional method for decades. | 20:44 |
| rwp | And with that I must run off... | 20:45 |
| temp64 | oh | 20:45 |
| temp64 | I do have the files you mentioned but my /etc/network/interfaces is just an empty file that sources (also empty) /etc/network/interfaces.d/* | 20:45 |
| temp64 | maybe someone else knows which packages I'm missing... pretty sure this isn't supposed to look like that | 20:46 |
| fluffywolf | it's empty because you haven't configured an interface by adding something to it. lol | 20:46 |
| temp64 | how am I supposed to configure an interface without wpa_supplicant running? | 20:47 |
| temp64 | when I don't even know the SSIDs around me | 20:47 |
| fluffywolf | it sounds like network-manager or such might be what you're looking for? | 20:48 |
| rwp | I haven't quite left yet so... Normally one has this in /etc/network/interfaces | 20:48 |
| rwp | iface wlan0 inet dhcp | 20:48 |
| rwp | wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf | 20:48 |
| fluffywolf | if you're going to do it all through the command line, then you use iwlist scan to find ssids, add the configuration you want to /etc/interfaces, etc... but it sounds like you're looking for a manager type program instead. | 20:48 |
| fsmithred | temp64, have you installed any desktop or window manager? | 20:48 |
| rwp | And that's all there is to it on that end of things. The rest of the configuration is in /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf which also needs something so that wpa_gui can talk to it. | 20:48 |
| temp64 | oh, that makes sense, thanks rwp | 20:49 |
| rwp | By default these days people are defaulting to NetworkManager which takes over everything itself internally and no other configuration is needed at that point. So all of the files are empty by default. | 20:49 |
| rwp | But if you don't use NetworkManager and you use something else (like a very many of us do) then those other things need configuration. | 20:49 |
| fsmithred | wpa_gui is pretty easy to use. There are instructions on devuan.org for using it. | 20:50 |
| rwp | The file /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian.gz documents these things but it can be a little expansive. It needs the simplified cases. | 20:50 |
| rwp | Go with using wpa_gui but as I understand it there needs a couple of lines in wpa_supplicant.conf to enable the communications interface to it. | 20:51 |
| rwp | And now I really must run off! TTFN! | 20:51 |
| fsmithred | I think wpa_gui edits wpa_supplicant.conf, but you may be right about doing something to get it started. | 20:53 |
| fsmithred | I can't find the instructions, and the laptop that has it set up is out in the car right now. | 20:54 |
| temp64 | getting it running wasn't the issue, I did set my Wi-Fi up by starting wpa_supplicant by hand | 20:55 |
| temp64 | it's just the lack of init scripts that was confusing | 20:56 |
| temp64 | I think other distros come with init scripts for wpa_supplicant by default and simply assume that it should run on wlan0 since 99% of the time this is the first and only wireless card on the PC | 20:56 |
| fluffywolf | I think the usual debian/devuan way is that wpa_supplicant isn't something you use on its own, so you don't start it on its own. | 20:57 |
| fluffywolf | ifupdown or networkmanager are the normal debian/devuan ways to use it | 20:57 |
| temp64 | I'm gonna do it the ifupdown way then | 20:58 |
| fluffywolf | I still use wicd, but it's not available anymore without frankendevuaning. | 20:59 |
| Xenguy | temp64, https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/network-configuration.html | 21:06 |
| Xenguy | See section 'Using ifupdown' | 21:07 |
| Xenguy | Works fine here, I like it | 21:07 |
| onefang | Reading through the nights backlog. fsmithred mentions the column of speed ranges from apt-panopticon. When you mention that you should also point out that it's the speed measured from the server apt-panopticon is running on. Which is why I like to have a few instances of apt-panopticon spread around the world. Obviously the one running on my own mirror gives my own mirror an incredible speed measure, | 22:24 |
| onefang | coz local SSD is much faster than the Internet, even if filtered through my local web server. Which brings up the other issue, if a particular mirror has faster bandwidth than the server running apt-panopticon, then it can't measure that excess speed. So in general, take those speed measurements with an appropriate dose of salt. | 22:24 |
| * onefang finishes reading and considers brekky. Suns up. | 22:29 | |
| fsmithred | onefang, thanks for the clarification. | 22:40 |
| dvbst | i like how rwp does everything so that people dont use networkmanager | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | aka Network Mangler | 22:50 |
| dvbst | you guys remember that random usb stick? | 23:14 |
| dvbst | i "dd if=/dev/zero"ed it, and now i wanted to check if its legit or no, so i hexdumped it | 23:15 |
| dvbst | and it is zeroes for the most part, but theres also random 1's, 8's, 4's and so on in random places | 23:15 |
| dvbst | there is either something sketchy going on, or this was so cheap that the corruption rate is unreal | 23:16 |
| dvbst | this is apparently a 64gb usb and it has usb-c, usb-a and microusb ports | 23:17 |
| dvbst | and is like 1mbps write speed too | 23:18 |
| dvbst | so idk if i want to use that as my installation media | 23:18 |
| fsmithred | debootstrap is popular today | 23:19 |
| fsmithred | you can check the integrity of the media before you run the installer | 23:19 |
| gnarface | dvbst: did you install your nvidia drivers yet, and which actual card do you have, as reported by lspci? | 23:38 |
| gnarface | i don't know what's up with your usb key, but the whole thing doesn't have to be good for it to work as a boot disk, just the first part of it | 23:38 |
| dvbst | oh hi, i was waiting for you to tell me how to get the drivers the correct way | 23:40 |
| dvbst | so i didnt touch it yet | 23:40 |
| gnarface | i skimmed the scrollback... glad you it seems you got a handle on it, but i thought you said you were booting this thing in legacy mode, am i remembering that wrong? if it's giving you intermittent UEFI errors that's weird, and sounds like a bios issue that might be worthy of checking the manufacturer source for a updated version | 23:40 |
| gnarface | i think you have to have a relatively new card for nvidia's official "open source" drivers (and not actually open source here, just slightly more open than the others, similar to the way amdgpu is setup, maybe) | 23:41 |
| gnarface | anyway, figure out which nvidia card you actually have and we can probably figure out which packages to install based on that | 23:42 |
| gnarface | the primary reason you want to try the repo versions first before the .run shell script (aside from the stuff i mentioned yesterday about package dependencies) is that nvidia's quality control is also complete garbage, and usually you don't want to be the first one to try out their brand new drivers, which is what you'll be every time you use their .run script. | 23:43 |
| gnarface | the versions from the repo for the stable release have had time to cool off, so they have the most chance of actually being stable | 23:44 |
| gnarface | (and compared to AMD that's still not gonna be great chances, but it's statistically enough of an improvement to be the safer bet) | 23:44 |
| gnarface | lspci should report the card by a non-ambiguous identifier | 23:45 |
| systemdlete | what is the official way to create a new configuration file for virtual host? There are a2enmod and a2enconf commands for enabling modules and configurations, but there doesn't seem to be any particular tool for creating a new config file for a virtual host. Now, I know it actually doesn't matter, but if I want to be future-proof and in compliance with debian/devuan standards and so forth... | 23:46 |
| systemdlete | (I asked in #httpd, and I was told that this is distro-dependent) | 23:47 |
| dvbst | no i dont think i ever mentioned legacy in this chat, and yes, the whole motherboard is wacky, after one power outage the rgb just never turns off even when everything else is off, the only way to make it not shine is to take the power chord out. also it is one of the models that was vulnerable to the cosmicstrand exploit, but i had updated the bios shortly after that went public. still, the rgb keeps being on when the computer has power and theres nothing | 23:50 |
| dvbst | i can do about it | 23:50 |
| systemdlete | is it kosher to create it in the enabled-sites subdir, since the main apache config is including all the *.conf files there already? Or is there a better way? | 23:51 |
| systemdlete | or could that interfere (potentially, in the future) with the scheme? | 23:52 |
| systemdlete | OR... should I just go ahead and create the new vsite in one of the conf files in enabled-sites? | 23:53 |
| systemdlete | (I *know* I can do that. I *know* that there are probably 12,637 ways to do it. I just want to know if there is any customary admin protocol?) | 23:54 |
| dvbst | gnarface: yes i know, i checked it and my card is one of the oldest that is on the list, i have a 2060 and it is the Turing architecture | 23:56 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
