| brocashelm | as beowulf will be archived on june 30, does that mean only ELTS support would apply to buster (like from freexian) if you want to get select packages updated? | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| rwp | https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Buster | 00:33 |
| rwp | Buster==Beowulf So after the end of this month it seems it will only be ELTS support as you note. https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended | 00:34 |
| brocashelm | yeah, i know. i haven't seen a devuan ELTS, but wasn't expecting it | 00:35 |
| rwp | The packages in Devuan are passed through from Debian. So the rules for Debian apply directly to Devuan. With the exception of the 100 or so banned packages that hard depend upon systemd. | 00:36 |
| brocashelm | yeah | 00:36 |
| brocashelm | i did test running apt update for the freexian repo, and so far there's a slightly newer dbus (but didn't install them) | 00:36 |
| brocashelm | it's a very old laptop that can't run chimaera efficiently | 00:36 |
| rwp | I would guess that the dependencies are slightly different on the dbus but that's just a guess. | 00:37 |
| brocashelm | true, and i'm not just going to blindly upgrade anything. i'll keep compiling what i can | 00:37 |
| rwp | I have used the ELTS support before and when major things happen those packages get updated. It's actually rather nice because the package thrash churn is reduced. | 00:37 |
| brocashelm | for example, getting python3.8 working on beowulf (as yt-dlp no longer supports older versions) | 00:37 |
| brocashelm | my plan is to keep using daedalus for a while longer | 00:38 |
| rwp | My solution to such things as old python is a chroot container. I am running Mailman2 in a chroot container for python2 for example. | 00:38 |
| brocashelm | the beowulf did get some security updates for atril the other day, so it's nice to still get something | 00:38 |
| brocashelm | i see | 00:38 |
| rwp | Putting obstacles like that in a chroot container is a long time used technique and then the hosting OS can be upgraded. You will here that about old PHP versions and all kinds of things. | 00:39 |
| joerg | hmmm, getting rid of python2.x sounds tempting | 04:39 |
| paculino | Hasn't support for that officially been over for a couple years now? | 07:01 |
| gnarface | well, it depends on who you ask | 07:09 |
| gnarface | the python maintainers probably shelved it many years ago, but it's still in debian oldstable, which was actual stable up until more recently | 07:10 |
| freepick | Hello again, I installed in expert mode, I chose not to install non-free-firmware, but at the time of booting the system I had the realtek-firmware installed :-( jaja | 10:09 |
| gnarface | freepick: probably included by the installer anyway because you used the netinstall | 10:35 |
| gnarface | if you don't configure networking during the install it might not do that | 10:36 |
| gnarface | possibly if you just don't use wireless, in fact, though there's firmware in there for both wired and wireless devices | 10:36 |
| freepick | Yes, I have used netinstall, but I don't have Wi-Fi on this PC. So that firmware is always installed if we use netinstall even though we select not to use non-free-firmware? | 10:42 |
| gnarface | if freepick comes back tell them i don't know if that's the case or if it's only if you have realtek networking devices that can benefit from it (which includes some gigabit ethernet devices that will only do 100 megabit without that) | 11:29 |
| gnarface | regardless, there's no package dependencies on it and you can just uninstall if you wish | 11:29 |
| buZz | realtek also makes non-wifi hw btw | 11:57 |
| cousin_luigi | And it's not great either. | 12:43 |
| gnarface | no but it's cheap and it's fairly ubiquitous as the default onboard network device vendor | 12:53 |
| gnarface | the best i can say for it other than that is it's cheap, not prone to overheating, and isn't allergic to my d-link switches like whatever intel shit they put in dells | 12:54 |
| gnarface | actually, now that i think of it, it's fucking great | 12:54 |
| gnarface | realtek rules | 12:55 |
| gnarface | it's important to be practical and not have harmful prejudices | 12:55 |
| gnarface | broadcom and intel supposedly have top tier offerings that are super expensive in all brackets but they've caused me no end of trouble | 12:58 |
| gnarface | realtek linux support is... just great | 12:59 |
| gnarface | if you don't count the soundcards | 12:59 |
| rustyaxe | gnarface: realtek is trash; both wired and wireless | 15:15 |
| rustyaxe | And 'great' linux support? If you mean having to have a watchdog script to tell if the realsuck chipset went to lunch and reload the driver --- and a hardware watchdog timer to make sure it gets rebooted if unloading the driver causes a kernel panic. Yea i'd say it's excellent quality ;) | 15:16 |
| gnarface | rustyaxe: i've had almost no problems with the wired ethernet realtek devices i've had over the years, it's in really stark contrast to intel and broadcom. even if they were in the same price bracket it wouldn't look worth it considering all the issues i've had with driver and hardware issues the other brands have had | 15:21 |
| gnarface | never needed watchdog scripts, never needed to unload the driver | 15:22 |
| gnarface | even the wifi realtek device problems i've had never required unloading the driver | 15:22 |
| * rustyaxe stares at r8169 | 15:22 | |
| rustyaxe | there's a reason the onboard NIC in my desktop is only used for the bios console redirection and its not because its only 1ge | 15:23 |
| gnarface | in fact, the recent wifi realtek issues i had eventually were traced back to hostapd as the culprit | 15:23 |
| gnarface | maybe i've just been lucky about what models i've got | 15:24 |
| gnarface | i wasn't really selecting for anything particular though | 15:24 |
| rustyaxe | what sucks is it seems realtek has ripped off someone's 10gig design and is now releasing undoubtedly buggy 10gig junk now too :( | 15:27 |
| cousin_luigi | rustyaxe: Bios console redirection? Is that a thing? | 15:31 |
| rustyaxe | cousin_luigi: corebios | 15:32 |
| cousin_luigi | oh that | 15:45 |
| cousin_luigi | I see | 15:45 |
| ted-ious | gnarface: Weren't realtek known for being hostile to open source developers? | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | maybe you're thinking of broadcom | 20:41 |
| ted-ious | I think I'm thinking of broadcom being so bad that they spill over onto other companies. ;) | 20:53 |
| ted-ious | I do notice lots of forum posts about people having to download drivers from realtek's website which makes me think that they're not in the mainline kernel already. | 20:54 |
| rwp | Realtek WiFi Info: https://github.com/morrownr/USB-WiFi/blob/main/home/USB_WiFi_Adapter_out-of-kernel_drivers_for_Linux.md | 21:43 |
| rwp | Main page: https://github.com/morrownr/USB-WiFi | 21:43 |
| someuser | hello | 23:50 |
| * sensys | 23:58 | |
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