| FatPhil | joerg: from a couple of days of use it seems like the g/f's phone is happy with wifi disabled and connection to cellular data via a dbus command | 11:39 |
|---|---|---|
| joerg | good | 11:41 |
| joerg | what's wrong with simply disabling WiFi? | 11:42 |
| FatPhil | this may sound silly, but how do you disable wifi? | 12:43 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 12:44 |
| FatPhil | in the words of some fucking wankers "it's supposed to be a connected device" | 12:44 |
| KotCzarny | have you ever read instruction manual that came with your device? | 12:44 |
| FatPhil | I never had an instruction manual! | 12:44 |
| KotCzarny | http://nds1.webapps.microsoft.com/phones/files/guides/Nokia_N900_UG_en.pdf | 12:45 |
| FatPhil | I think one of our n950s has a box, but none of the n900s ever have. Which means I'm annoyingly short of the video cables | 12:45 |
| FatPhil | (i.e. 0 presently) | 12:45 |
| KotCzarny | video cables are dirt cheap and generics will work (beside wrong colors etc) | 12:46 |
| KotCzarny | golden times of analog cables | 12:46 |
| FatPhil | I see nothing in that manual about disabling wifi. | 12:48 |
| Maxdamantus | and possibly other forms of quality degradation (not sure how much it matters with N900/component/composite, but it's definitely a thing with "VGA" vs "XGA" cables) | 12:48 |
| joerg | FatPhil: let me reproduce this... | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | i've always thought that disconnecting from active wifi ap disabled wifi | 12:58 |
| KotCzarny | and n900 wouldnt automatically scan/reconnect | 12:58 |
| KotCzarny | otoh if it disconnected because of poor signal etc, it would try to reconnect | 12:59 |
| joerg | FatPhil: you open config dialog (I got a desktop icon for that), there you find a "internet connection", for me it's bottom left in this pic https://i.imgur.com/6tzmrHs.jpeg. There you find cellular as connection, with an option "[_]switch to WLAN of available" which you want to UNcheck | 13:02 |
| joerg | the config dialog is NOT the power button / click-systray requester! | 13:04 |
| joerg | FatPhil: https://i.imgur.com/KonNFDz.jpeg | 13:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yer I always assumed you, select your data connection and then unchecked the switch to wifi button. this disables the search interval | 13:13 |
| joerg | this search interval is also the culprit for periodic (every 10min for example) BT audio dropouts | 13:14 |
| joerg | *unless* you're connected to an AP and so no search needed | 13:15 |
| joerg | also WLAN search/scan is a massive power hog | 13:15 |
| joerg | the root "control dial" is the "always ask | WLAN | <cellular> | any" menu | 13:18 |
| joerg | it's a tad awkward and obscure, but once you got a catch on it, it's very nice | 13:19 |
| KotCzarny | could be i forgot about that checkbox | 13:23 |
| KotCzarny | i always disable automatic scans on all mobiles i have | 13:24 |
| FatPhil | "[_]switch to WLAN of available" is greyed out (and unchecked) | 13:27 |
| FatPhil | But as soon as the "Internet connections" is pulled down from the status bar, it scans wifi - therefore wifi ain't disabled. | 13:28 |
| KotCzarny | because you request it by pulling internet connections | 13:28 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 13:28 |
| FatPhil | Please put a dunce cap on that smiley | 13:28 |
| KotCzarny | 3:) | 13:29 |
| FatPhil | The original problem was "how to connect to cellular data without going via that menu", as a workaround for broken wifi. | 13:29 |
| FatPhil | And are you sure it's disabled, or just not connected? | 13:29 |
| KotCzarny | do you have ssh and gsm connection? | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | ssh server on n900 | 13:30 |
| FatPhil | no server, afaik | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | xterm could do too i guess, but i always find ssh easier | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | check if wlan interface is up | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | another way to check would be comparing power usage | 13:31 |
| FatPhil | this ain't about interfaces, this is about power domains | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | usually driver disables chip if interface is down | 13:35 |
| FatPhil | that would be wise | 13:36 |
| KotCzarny | i dont remember if bt is separate or part of wlan chip | 13:37 |
| FatPhil | we almost never use bt, always disabled except for the instant of a xfer | 13:37 |
| joerg | bt is part of wlan chip | 13:41 |
| FatPhil | yup, maybe even some other rf stuff on it too | 13:41 |
| joerg | FatPhil: to start with, you could select "always ask" in https://i.imgur.com/KonNFDz.jpeg and delete all preconfigured WLAN connections | 13:42 |
| sicelo | fm radio receiver | 13:42 |
| joerg | install opensshd | 13:43 |
| sicelo | bt is not in wlan. it's a broadcom. wlan is TI | 13:43 |
| joerg | ooooh right, sorry, just connected to WLAN chip via the "coexistence" lines | 13:44 |
| sicelo | yeah | 13:44 |
| joerg | BT and FM radio are same chip iirc | 13:44 |
| sicelo | yea, they are | 13:44 |
| sicelo | and annoyingly the fm, although having standalone i2c lines, can only be enabled via a BT packet | 13:46 |
| joerg | yes | 13:46 |
| FatPhil | joerg: already at "always ask". But the status menu will still start a scan when you head for the cellmo | 13:46 |
| joerg | then select a cellular connection and uncheck the "[_]use WLAN if available" | 13:47 |
| joerg | my cellular is O2 LOOP | 13:47 |
| FatPhil | yup, but it's too late, the wifi chip is up and spinning at that point and burning the battery | 13:48 |
| sicelo | FatPhil: if you don't want it to even scan, sounds like you need to rmmod the driver | 13:48 |
| joerg | no, not really needed | 13:48 |
| joerg | afaik | 13:48 |
| joerg | it even might break the ICD, no? | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 13:49 |
| FatPhil | rmmoding the driver is what I meant by "happy with wifi disabled" | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | shouldnt wifi respond to rfkill? | 13:49 |
| sicelo | i mean in connection with the scan that's initiated when status menu is in view | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | or n900 is too old to have that | 13:49 |
| joerg | sigh | 13:49 |
| FatPhil | g/f did see some complaints on fora/wiki about rmmod causing the system to get confused, but she's been running 2 days without any problems now. | 13:50 |
| joerg | sicelo: yes, fair enough. But why would you want to disable that? | 13:50 |
| joerg | rmmod will confuse the system (ICD, I guess) the very moment ICD wants to start a scan | 13:52 |
| sicelo | btw it's closed? | 13:52 |
| joerg | when you tell ICD(?) to "always use GSM, never scan for WLAN, never ask" then it should just work, no matter if kernel module loaded or not | 13:53 |
| FatPhil | "internet connections" -> "disable cellular" works fine with wifi rmmodded | 13:53 |
| joerg | err wut? | 13:53 |
| joerg | sorry, in a hurry, bbl | 13:54 |
| FatPhil | ICD isn't trying to start a scan any more, it seems | 13:54 |
| FatPhil | now the module's rmmodded. | 13:54 |
| FatPhil | however, we've not checked to see if the battery drain problem has started again, I guess we'll know in a few hours | 13:55 |
| joerg | what's the purpose of the whole exercise? | 14:00 |
| joerg | toldya WLAN chip is a power hog when scannong, that's why you select a possibly "very long" period of e.g. 10 minutes between scans. But it only scans when you a) have it configured to do so AND are not connected to an AP, or b) you open the internet connection dialog | 14:02 |
| joerg | when you configure the device to never connect to WLAN, it will not even start scanning (maybe not even load the wl1351(?) kernel module) any time, unless you open a "chose internet connection" dialog somewhere | 14:04 |
| KotCzarny | screen is bigger hog anyway | 14:07 |
| joerg | no actually not | 14:09 |
| joerg | unless you mean the "1pixel constant up/down bounce" bug in the desktop | 14:10 |
| KotCzarny | i mean screen backlight | 14:11 |
| joerg | the screen backlight iirc is lower max power than the wlan chip RX monster | 14:12 |
| joerg | scanning really is insane | 14:12 |
| KotCzarny | then i have never experienced it | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | always it was the screen that was sucking the most (when connected to ap and no scan) | 14:15 |
| FatPhil | joerg: purpose of exercise is to get a bit more life out of a unit with a broken wifi. | 14:17 |
| KotCzarny | external power bank? | 14:18 |
| FatPhil | rmmod wl1251 seems to be the more lightweight solution | 14:19 |
| joerg | again, I don't see why you want to rmmod wl1251, despite reports that it might (and I guess, occasionally _will_) "confuse the device" | 14:24 |
| KotCzarny | as long it works, in the worst case reboot fixes | 14:27 |
| KotCzarny | imo, better would be doing some power drain tests | 14:27 |
| KotCzarny | with any method discussed | 14:27 |
| FatPhil | joerg: because everything apart from rmmod seems to lead to the "internet connections" status menu spinning and draining battery. | 14:57 |
| joerg | no | 14:58 |
| FatPhil | yes | 14:59 |
| FatPhil | "configure the device to never connect to WLAN" isn't a thing | 14:59 |
| joerg | well, then your system is differently configured than mine | 14:59 |
| FatPhil | this is stock | 15:01 |
| FatPhil | none of the images you linked to contain a "never connect to WLAN" scenario. | 15:02 |
| FatPhil | they contain "don't *automatically* connect", but that's completely different. | 15:03 |
| joerg | my system has "automatically connect to: <GSM/cellular>" and "[_] use WLAN if available" | 15:03 |
| joerg | "never connect to WLAN" scenario == "automatically connect to: <GSM/cellular>" and "[_] use WLAN if available" | 15:04 |
| FatPhil | that's what I'm saying. "don't ever" and "don't automatically" are completely different concepts. | 15:04 |
| joerg | sorry, no idea what's the problem | 15:06 |
| KotCzarny | closest is 'dont ever enable any form of wlan chip activity' | 15:11 |
| joerg | "don't ever connect to internet" = "airplane mode". "don't ever connect to *WLAN* but connect to Internet via GSM" = "automatically connect to <mobile carrier>" + "[DONT] switch to WLAN if available" + ``do not open the "networks" dialog which implicitly starts scanning for available WLAN APs´´ ==>> The device will automatically connect to GSM data and never will care about scanning WLAN | 18:57 |
| joerg | WHEN it starts scanning WLAN because _you opened_ the "select which connection you want to use" dialog, then AOIO it will stop that scanning imediately as soon as you close that dialog again | 19:01 |
| joerg | AIUI* | 19:02 |
| Wizzup | The definition of airplane mode has changed over time unfortunately, the Maemo 'Offline' mode is not quite like airplane mode | 19:18 |
| Wizzup | Airplane mode these days means offline the modem, but keep wifi and bluetooth ON | 19:19 |
| joerg | that's "tablet mode" in N900 maemo-fremantle. Option | 19:30 |
| joerg | Wizzup: you're right, it's named "Offline-mode" (here in my powerbutton-menu): https://i.imgur.com/7KUHShs.jpeg means "all transmitters off" | 19:41 |
| joerg | so that's what other phones of same time called "Airplane-Mode". The "Tablet-Mode" is "WWAN off, WLAN&BT on" | 19:42 |
| Wizzup | Where is this tablet mode on fremantle? | 19:56 |
| joerg | it's an optional install, I don't know the exact name | 20:04 |
| joerg | "an app" | 20:04 |
| joerg | "Cellular Modem Control Buttons"? | 20:08 |
| joerg | yes, "Extends power button menu by 'Tablet mode' […]" | 20:12 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/f7rStyM.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/BNhi67d.jpeg | 20:18 |
| joerg | systray menu, so, don't know | 20:18 |
| joerg | search HAM for "tablet" | 20:21 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/Y4HzTeA.jpeg "depends: osso-systemui-powerkeymenu" | 20:25 |
| joerg | my Android (SG Note9) shows "Offline mode" with a 737(?) silhouette and actually disables WLAN too | 20:41 |
| joerg | as well as BT, and of course WWAN/LTE/cellular | 20:42 |
| joerg | If I want "tablet mode" I need to enable "iffline" aka "airplane mode" and explicitly enable "WLAN" again | 20:43 |
| joerg | "Offline" even | 20:43 |
| joerg | So SG Note9 "offline mode" == maemo "offline mode" | 20:44 |
| joerg | then Note9 isn't exactly >>… these days …<< either ;-) | 20:46 |
| KotCzarny | on my huawei p20, airplane mode disabled all radio, but allows to manuall reenable wifi/bt etc | 20:57 |
| KotCzarny | *manually | 20:57 |
| joerg | exactly same as my Note9 | 21:01 |
| joerg | I'd not be too surprised if there was a legal mandate to make "Airplane mode" to kill *all* transmitters | 21:02 |
| sicelo | 737 :-) | 22:17 |
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