| Xenguy | Definitely a wrong window moment | 01:06 |
|---|---|---|
| davesp | Well, "Catalan" is a language (per Wikipedia), and if that language requires something Devuan-specific, then "on-topic". ? | 01:15 |
| rwp | The localization of messages works okay no problem in Devuan. That the error message was reported in Catalan does limit the audience of potential responders to those who can read or at least somewhat read Catalan. | 01:47 |
| rwp | Let me very kindly suggest that when reporting an error message to a global mailing list that one use "env LC_ALL=C apt-get upgrade" and then temporarily for that one commandall of the messages will be printed using the standard message catalog. | 01:48 |
| rwp | Because C/POSIX (which is English) is the "lingua franca" of the operating system. (Read that lingua franca remark with irony since it was French when the term was created.) | 01:50 |
| rwp | I say very kindly because we fully support normal daily use in your localized environment. It's just for international communication that I suggest this. | 01:51 |
| rwp | As to the problem, I think multiarch systems are always going to be problematic. I avoid them myself. | 01:55 |
| rrq | with just qemu-user-static and binfmt-support your machine is able to run binaries of different architecture "seamlessly and transparently", and then it's easy to set up different arch filesystems using debootstrap... in that way you can have the cake and eat it without actually mingling them and thus avoid confusing "apt". | 02:47 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: And to further elaborate on the irony of that, the Franks were a Germanic tribe originally. | 07:51 |
| JayYoung | Is there still some bug with installing 'Console Productivity', I am installing from Daedalus desktop iso, and tin fails every time. Media verified, off-line install. I will try again without console prod. to check. The last forum post was 2020 about this issue? | 11:37 |
| gnarface | i vaguely remember this issue, i don't remember about any resolution... did it also fail if you install console productivity afterwards? | 11:47 |
| gnarface | JayYoung: ^ | 11:50 |
| JayYoung | I have just booted into the system now; I'm not sure how to install console productivity afterwards, but I will research. I think I can get apt to see the install media mounted as a local mirror or something? I will try. | 11:51 |
| gnarface | if you didn't configure networking during install, the install media probably is set up as the mirror by default | 11:51 |
| gnarface | as for installing tasks afterwards, they're all in the packages that start with "task-" | 11:51 |
| gnarface | so just "apt-get install task-console-productivity" should do it | 11:52 |
| gnarface | i would do "apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-console-productivity" though, just because i like less cruft | 11:52 |
| gnarface | ymmv | 11:52 |
| gnarface | that iso doesn't look like it's been updated since 2023 though, so i'm guessing for any relevant fixes to whatever this problem was, you probably need a network connection | 11:53 |
| JayYoung | Yes, this particular machine has various connection issues that I am too lazy to fix at the moment, so I wanted a large iso to install packages off-line; I was hoping for testing branch, but I could not locate. I will try your recommendations. Thanks. | 11:55 |
| gnarface | you could always use refracta tools to make your own installer | 11:55 |
| gnarface | then it could include updated versions of everything | 11:55 |
| gnarface | i have a feeling i would have mentioned that last time... | 11:56 |
| gnarface | i think there's also some build scripts elsewhere you could use, not sure which is less work | 11:56 |
| gnarface | someone else around here certainly knows though | 11:56 |
| fsmithred | I've got an excalibur minimal-live iso. I think it has task-console-productivity installed and I'm sure there's no desktop or even a wm on it. | 12:05 |
| fsmithred | but if you want anything else installed that's not in that iso, you will need network | 12:06 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan_excalibur_6.0-preview-2025-04-22_1629_amd64_minimal-live.iso | 12:06 |
| JayYoung | task-console-productivity installed from the iso fine after the fact, but something in the initial install breaks it. I'll see if I can get the excalibur iso and update packages as needed. Thanks for the help. | 12:08 |
| fsmithred | did you get the pool isos too? I don't know if the packages you want are on the desktop dvd. | 12:10 |
| fsmithred | dialog, zsh, entr, gddrescue, gdisk, htop, iftop, iotop, iw, mtr-tiny, multitail, ncdu, parted, pciutils, psmisc, sudo, time, wavemon, wireless-tools, wpasupplicant, ed, zile, bind9-host, bittornado, curl, dnsutils, edbrowse, fetchmail, ftp, geoip-bin, irssi, lftp, links2, lrzsz, mcabber, minicom, mosh, msmtp, mutt, netcat, net-tools, nfacct, nrss, openssh-client, openssh-server, procmail, rsync, telnet, tin, traceroute, w3m, wget, | 12:12 |
| fsmithred | whois, abook, apcalc, aspell, aspell-en, calcurse, clex, dvtm, fbi, fbterm, ghostscript, gnupg, gnupg2, gnupg-agent, mc, parallel, poppler-utils, rpl, rename, sc, screen, taskwarrior, tmux, bastet, bombardier, bsdgames, cavezofphear, crawl, curseofwar, empire, freesweep, gnuchess, greed, matanza, moria, nethack-console, ninvaders, omega-rpg, pacman4console, pente, sudoku, beep, brltty, espeak, espeakup, yasr, alsa-utils, caca-utils, | 12:12 |
| fsmithred | hasciicam, imagemagick, jhead, moc, radio, sox, cmatrix, cowsay, eject, figlet, fortunes-min, fortune-mod, gpm, man-db, manpages, manpages-dev, mlocate, termsaver, toilet, toilet-fonts, ttyrec, unzip | 12:12 |
| fsmithred | maybe pick what you want and install the packages. You probably don't need all of them. | 12:12 |
| fsmithred | sorry for the mega-paste. I'm not really awake yet. | 12:13 |
| JayYoung | I grabbed the torrent, so I could help seed, so whatever is in the current torrent file is what I used for the desktop/dvd iso install. I have now downloaded your excalibur iso and will mount it for testing. | 12:16 |
| * freem have seen bigger paste than 3-lines long ones | 12:17 | |
| fsmithred | if you used a torrent, you did not get excalibur, and the packages on the minimal-live won't match | 12:19 |
| fsmithred | but you probably do have all the packages you need if you got all the daedalus isos. | 12:20 |
| fsmithred | there's not much in the pool1 iso, so check the cd1,2,3 isos for the packages you want. | 12:26 |
| JayYoung | Ok thanks. Got it working. Mounted the cd2,3,4.iso's, and the excalibur.iso and after usermerge/dist-upgrade everything is working fine. | 13:51 |
| fsmithred | you had network for the dist-upgrade? | 13:53 |
| JayYoung | no, I just used the excalibur iso for that machine. its not going to be a networked machine anyhow. | 13:54 |
| fsmithred | ok, you might have a mix of packages from stable and testing, and that's generally not a good thing. | 13:54 |
| fsmithred | unless you started with a minimal system, maybe everything you needed was on the excalibur iso. | 13:55 |
| JayYoung | Oh yes, I installed from the desktop iso, but I only installed the base system, just in case. Now I have updated from the excalibur iso. | 14:02 |
| fsmithred | :) | 14:07 |
| JayYoung | Thanks for your help. Now I have to go find gnucobol, which is supposed to be in main, but apparently was dropped at some point because I can't find it in any pool. Cheers! | 14:09 |
| fsmithred | https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/gnucobol | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | oh wait, you need testing version... | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | JayYoung... | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | https://packages.debian.org/trixie/gnucobol | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | https://packages.debian.org/trixie/gnucobol3 | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | gnucobol depends on gnucobol3 | 14:15 |
| JayYoung | Yes, thank you. What I was saying is that in the Devuan package manager it states it should be included in the pool main/g/genucobol, but the actual package entry is missing. Of course I'm just starting out, only discovered devuan yesterday so I know nothing. | 14:17 |
| fsmithred | I don't think everything gets into the isos | 14:18 |
| fsmithred | oh, debian has 21 DVD set for stable (bookworm/daedalus). That must be the entire repo for the arch I'm looking at. (amd64) | 14:26 |
| fsmithred | looks like it's only available through jigdo | 14:26 |
| rrq | gnucobol package is at http://deb.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN/main/g/gnucobol/gnucobol_5_amd64.deb | 14:29 |
| * rrq missed the begiining of this issue | 14:29 | |
| fsmithred | np | 14:30 |
| rrq | pkginfo has links for the deb's ... is a particular version missing? | 14:31 |
| fsmithred | I think the problem is that it's not in the media and it was an offline install | 14:32 |
| rrq | mmm gnucobol3 clocks in at position 29210 at popcon (by vote) so it wouldn;t have been on any iso unless some desktop would have brought it in | 14:33 |
| fsmithred | how many positions are there? | 14:34 |
| rrq | desktop only contains the depends and recommends, transitively, of the task-*-desktop .. plus a handlful of Captain's Calls | 14:34 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it's probably on some DVD higher than 15 | 14:35 |
| rrq | zzzfm-gtk3 clocks in last at 200909 | 14:35 |
| fsmithred | oh, so it could be on an earlier DVD | 14:35 |
| rrq | yes if some task-*-desktop mentions it | 14:36 |
| fsmithred | there are 21 DVDs for amd64. Wouldn't that be the entire repo? | 14:36 |
| rrq | I don't know; possibly; 4G could hold some 40000 100000 kb packages .. if that's a resnable estimate of average | 14:40 |
| rrq | 40000 100 kb | 14:40 |
| rrq | => about 800000 packages possible | 14:41 |
| rrq | gnucobol3 is 1Mb ... 200000 packages sould plausiable for 21 DVDs | 14:42 |
| fsmithred | debian cd search tool: https://cdimage-search.debian.org/ | 14:44 |
| fsmithred | gnucobol returns no result | 14:46 |
| rrq | so does "bash*" | 14:52 |
| fsmithred | ??? | 14:52 |
| rrq | and "bash" | 14:52 |
| fsmithred | so instead, one would have to start unzipping list.gz up to 21 times | 14:53 |
| rrq | where are those list.gz ? | 14:54 |
| fsmithred | I'll have to find that page again | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/ | 14:57 |
| fsmithred | list-dvd and jigdo-dvd for the isos | 14:57 |
| rrq | I use httpdirfs to mount that page, then zgrep to find | 15:01 |
| rrq | 3 results: debian-12.10.0-amd64-DVD-10.list.gz:gnucobol3_3.1.2-5+b1_amd64.deb | 15:01 |
| rrq | debian-12.10.0-amd64-DVD-10.list.gz:gnucobol_5_amd64.deb | 15:01 |
| rrq | debian-12.10.0-amd64-DVD-14.list.gz:gnucobol4_4.0~early~20200606-6+b1_amd64.deb | 15:01 |
| rrq | guess DVD-10 is the one needed | 15:02 |
| rrq | also debian-12.10.0-amd64-BD-2.list.gz:gnucobol3_3.1.2-5+b1_amd64.deb | 15:05 |
| rrq | and debian-12.10.0-amd64-DLBD-1.list.gz:gnucobol3_3.1.2-5+b1_amd64.deb | 15:07 |
| rrq | seems easier to download the .deb (via pkginfo) | 15:09 |
| rrq | and follow up depends/recommends as well | 15:10 |
| plasma41 | I wish JayYoung were still online because anyone asking about COBOL in 2025 has some sort of story to tell. | 17:40 |
| JRYoung | Oh, I'm still here | 17:55 |
| plasma41 | JRYoung: At the risk of going off-topic, what necessitates you need for a COBOL compiler? | 18:13 |
| JRYoung | Just basics, I think I got it working tho. I'm excited for gcc15 to include a cobol front end direct compiler. | 18:14 |
| fsmithred | a few years ago I read that banks were looking for cobol programmers to maintain their old stuff that they're still using | 18:16 |
| JRYoung | It started years ago, because I like the idea of mainframes, and I like the language; its interesting to see what I can acomplish with COBOL these days. Just a hobby I try to learn, nothing serious. | 18:22 |
| cousin_luigi | Well, isn't cobol poison for your resumé? | 20:12 |
| cousin_luigi | Unless you have a long-term contract or you are close to retirement? | 20:13 |
| ted-ious | It's probably gold and diamonds if you want to work for a bank. :) | 20:19 |
| ted-ious | So devuan is getting a cobol compiler users can start learning? | 20:21 |
| JRYoung | I don't work in IT so I'm not really worried about the resume | 20:22 |
| Guest84 | ted-ious: GnuCOBOL | 20:23 |
| cousin_luigi | There's no point in learning that language if one doesn't have a solid foundation in accounting. | 20:24 |
| Guest84 | i did ProCobol once, doing like SQL or something | 20:25 |
| Guest84 | not sure how that worked | 20:27 |
| ted-ious | https://thenewstack.io/20-years-in-the-making-gnucobol-is-ready-for-industry/ | 20:45 |
| ted-ious | I think my excalibur test will be setting up a cobol dev box. :) | 20:45 |
| Guest84 | doesnt look like it can do SQL? | 20:54 |
| ted-ious | This says everything from sqlite3 to oracle. https://superbol.eu/en/ | 20:56 |
| ted-ious | It's a vscode addon if you like that sort of thing. | 20:57 |
| Guest84 | a vscode addon that adds database connectors to gnucobol? | 20:58 |
| Guest84 | i dont use vscode, thats for sure | 20:59 |
| ted-ious | Database connectors are just libraries aren't they? | 21:00 |
| Guest84 | https://github.com/mridoni/gixsql ?? | 21:01 |
| Guest84 | dunno, im confused | 21:03 |
| Guest84 | i think we are offtopic anyway, my bad | 21:06 |
| JRYoung | is wifi on topic? I can't find a solution for a wpa_supplicant issue. I'll keep reading | 21:50 |
| Xenguy | JRYoung, Absolutely on-topic (as is any Devuan support issue) | 22:04 |
| Xenguy | JRYoung, Not sure if this is relevant, but FWIW: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/network-configuration.html | 22:05 |
| JRYoung | Great! I dislike wifi. anyhow, I think I have several things happening at the same time? dhcp seems to start a boot, and listens for eth0 which is not connected; wpa_supplicant started manually fails | 22:09 |
| JRYoung | killing the dhcp client / wpa processes doesn't change anything, I still get the same unable to bind ctrl_iface from wpa_supplicant | 22:09 |
| JRYoung | I swear I had this working 8 hours ago.... | 22:11 |
| rustytaco | I learned a fun trick awhile back; USB tethered my phone to the devuan installer, turned wifi on and connected to the AP, the phone NATted out via the wifi ;) | 22:46 |
| rustytaco | had to download my non-free wifi drivers n all that such fun | 22:46 |
| JRYoung | OK! fixed it, good ol' reinstall, probably that nonsense with me trying to install from the iso's this morning | 22:50 |
| JRYoung | Retested, upgrading to excalibur breaks wpa_supplicant for me | 23:18 |
| JRYoung | CORRECTION - dhcp/wpa_supplicant running during boot doesn't work, likely a configuration issue. Killing all processes and running manually restores the wifi | 23:20 |
| fsmithred | JRYoung, I've had good luck using wpagui in excalibur following the directions that Xenguy posted. | 23:35 |
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