| metala | systemdlete: I don't recall anything with such layout. VSCodium could do that I think. You can have a preview pane to a HTML source. From the old tools, I only recall wysiwyg komposer/nvu. | 01:07 |
|---|---|---|
| systemdlete | hmm. metala, did nvu go by another name at one point maybe? That sounds vaguely familiar | 01:21 |
| rrq | ckeditor ? | 01:25 |
| metala | (f)ckeditor is a web editor, not desktop app | 01:29 |
| metala | systemdlete: 3 names - Mozilla Composer, Nvu, KompoZer | 01:30 |
| freem | <systemdlete> I recall a program I used to use that rendered html from text and v.v. It was a desktop program with 2 windows. One side had the html source and the other the rendering of the source. You could edit the html text and it would render it in the other side, or you could use the controls on the other side, and it would update the html source on the other. Something like that (my memmory is hazy now) | 01:39 |
| freem | amaya? | 01:39 |
| freem | (which was W3C's html wysiwig editor but is defunct) | 01:39 |
| freem | as for taking notes, I like vym, "view your mind". It's not html at all, but ... if the point is to keep track of things, I'd say that mind-mapper works nicely enough | 01:41 |
| fsmithred | Zim is a graphical text editor used to maintain a collection of wiki pages. | 01:42 |
| systemdlete | actually, these are 2 different topics. I am using elog to make notes. But it has a wysiwyg editor, probably ckeditor or one of those you would find in a content management system like joomla!. | 01:43 |
| fsmithred | ^^^ I've used zim for keeping notes | 01:43 |
| freem | I used to use zim as well :) | 01:43 |
| freem | was good enough | 01:43 |
| systemdlete | Well, if any of these suggestions are still maintained and in the repos, I might just give them a try. Thanks to all for your input. | 01:43 |
| freem | also one could simply setup some scripting through inotifywait to run a markdown-to-html tool and render it, but that'd require to script webbrowsers to work *with* the system instead of against, something I have no idea how to do | 01:44 |
| freem | amaya is defunct | 01:44 |
| freem | vym and zim are still maintained I think. I don't know for the other suggestions. | 01:44 |
| fsmithred | zim still exists | 01:44 |
| fsmithred | I see zim in excalibur/ceres | 01:45 |
| fsmithred | if you want to edit html pages, I recommend a plain text editor. | 01:45 |
| fsmithred | anything that does the html for you will likely screw itup | 01:46 |
| systemdlete | so you can just guess (in your head) what the output will look like? | 01:46 |
| fsmithred | open file in several different web browsers to make sure it works | 01:46 |
| fsmithred | after you run it through the w3c page to find all your errors | 01:46 |
| systemdlete | I enjoyed being able to go back and forth between the source and the rendered output, and edit either one knowing the other would be updated automatically | 01:47 |
| systemdlete | acctualy, I think this thing had a html checker, but it was prob for html4 (I'm talking probably around 15-20 years ago...) | 01:47 |
| freem | I remember really enjoying amaya for this, but that tool would not take control out of your hands. W3C stopped maintaining it when they started HTML5 though. | 01:47 |
| systemdlete | freem, yes. It did not take control away, and it was very true to whatever changes you made. | 01:48 |
| freem | https://www.w3.org/Amaya/ | 01:48 |
| freem | Last Release Amaya 11.4.4 (18 January 2012). It supports HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0, XHTML Basic, XHTML 1.1, HTTP 1.1, MathML 2.0, many CSS 2 features, and SVG. | 01:48 |
| freem | I remember I discovered that _zero_ web browser was conform back then because none would render correctly a svg containing html, except for opera... was it 10? or 11? | 01:49 |
| * Xenguy remembers amaya (and AOLserver, if I have the name right) ... | 01:50 | |
| freem | that's around the moment I realized that, no, firefox is actually not good. | 01:50 |
| freem | was* | 01:50 |
| freem | since then I've learnt something worst: there's no good web browser anyway. | 01:50 |
| freem | but that's offtopic :p | 01:51 |
| Xenguy | But once you've written HTML for long enough, you really don't need WYSIWYG anymore, you know what any given code is going to look like | 01:51 |
| Xenguy | Oh, sorry, OT | 01:51 |
| freem | yeah, I drifted, sorry :) | 01:51 |
| systemdlete | again, thanks to all | 01:51 |
| freem | yw | 01:51 |
| Xenguy | Sometimes I forget or don't notice I'm not on #devuan-offtopic | 01:51 |
| * systemdlete ended up starting his small table all over from scratch, which took less time than trying to find a tool to fix the problem... | 01:52 | |
| freem | honestly I'd strongly recommend zim or just markdown+$EDITOR for taking long notes, but I have found that it ended up in a giant mess after enough data gathered. Which is easier to sort out with vym, since you can just move and reparent the nodes (it's a graph, yes) around. And ofc, you can attach notes to them, too, but in my uses I only had a graph of ideas/information, that is actually faster to browse | 01:56 |
| freem | html is only good for web devs | 01:56 |
| freem | (since they need to master it and all that CSS mess for their dayjob anyway) | 01:57 |
| * freem stops OT here though | 02:00 | |
| onefang | Late to this party, I was out shopping. Falkon web browser will automatically reload a HTML file if you change it and it's at file://whatever. Even across several tabs. I use that for my quick web work. | 03:59 |
| Guest32 | could you please tell me whether you have rstudio in repo? | 16:36 |
| debdog | Guest32: not available. at least not with that exact name | 16:59 |
| debdog | though there seems to be a package available for download: https://posit.co/download/rstudio-desktop/ | 17:00 |
| Guest32 | debdog the problem is devuan is not systemd | 19:27 |
| Guest32 | :D | 19:27 |
| Guest32 | there is kinda no distribution trying to do things | 19:29 |
| Guest32 | ofc I could get rstudio from the aur on arch or from a broken nixos or from a debian where it will completly mess with the system | 19:30 |
| Guest32 | :D | 19:30 |
| Guest32 | or from a void linux of which I have no clue why it exist | 19:30 |
| Guest32 | but at least they wasnt as retarded as chimera linux to just compile rstudio | 19:30 |
| golinux | chimaera, perhaps? | 19:31 |
| Guest32 | https://chimera-linux.org/ golinux I refered to this | 19:31 |
| Guest32 | and I am sorry for this pessimistic view on linux that I shared | 19:33 |
| Guest32 | it is just what I experienced | 19:33 |
| Guest32 | maybe linux developer should go to freebsd and try to build bsd instead trying to make something work that doesnt work | 19:34 |
| Guest32 | or maybe not maybe they will just destroy freebsd afterwards | 19:35 |
| debdog | Guest32: mayhap run debian inside a VM? | 19:46 |
| Guest32 | on windows ? XD | 19:47 |
| freem | what is the problem with "just compile" exactly? | 19:58 |
| djph | freem: "./configure; make; make install" is very hard. | 19:59 |
| freem | lol | 20:00 |
| golinux | <Guest32> It is not named chimera. It is spelled chimaera | 20:01 |
| greenjeans | lol | 20:02 |
| greenjeans | deadalus | 20:02 |
| greenjeans | that was my favorite | 20:02 |
| freem | from what I see in the DEBIAN/control file of the official archive, the debian 12 .deb have no reason to not work on a systemd-free system | 20:02 |
| freem | "Depends: libssl-dev, libclang-dev, libsqlite3-0, libxkbcommon-x11-0, libc6 (>= 2.7)" | 20:02 |
| freem | AFAIK none of those libs ever depended on systemd or dbus stuff | 20:03 |
| freem | postinst and postrm scripts also do not seem to contain anything nasty, except for the unrealted to systemd point of chrome-sandbox being mentionned | 20:04 |
| freem | Guest32: any reason why you do not use the official debian package provided by rstudio's devs? | 20:05 |
| Guest32 | it is build on systemd | 20:05 |
| freem | I don't see anything suggesting that. Why do you say so? | 20:06 |
| Guest32 | it is a binary | 20:06 |
| freem | I have not ran ldd on every binary in there, ofc, but if there was a problem in there, that'd imply a bug in the package system itself | 20:06 |
| freem | and? | 20:06 |
| freem | what's the relation between being a binary and systemd? | 20:06 |
| freem | FWIW I run shitload of binaries on my system without having systemd around :D | 20:07 |
| freem | btw, you can inspect what's inside a .deb by using "dpkg-deb -R foo.deb /tmp/some/folder/", no need to be root, it won't install anything, but it will extract both the file hierarchy and the metadata from the package. It's very useful. | 20:08 |
| Guest32 | also I need newest kernel is the problem | 20:09 |
| Guest32 | and newest mesa | 20:09 |
| freem | ah, there *is* a bug in the package | 20:10 |
| Guest32 | and I am currently not on devuan | 20:10 |
| freem | the rstudio binary indeed is linked against libsystemd0 | 20:10 |
| Guest32 | so linux is a failed project? | 20:12 |
| freem | so yeah, the official build won't work on devuan since IIRC devuan does not have libsystemd0 at all, not even a shim | 20:12 |
| freem | huh | 20:12 |
| freem | not really. | 20:12 |
| Guest32 | everything is supposed to work on every distro or not | 20:13 |
| Guest32 | otherwise they failed | 20:13 |
| freem | obviously not | 20:13 |
| debdog | Guest32: no, a VM on devuan hosting debian. install rstudio inside that VM, ssh (X11 forwarding enabled) into it then run rstudio. if that works it is seamless | 20:13 |
| freem | every distro is it's own operating system | 20:13 |
| freem | linux itself is NOT an OS, it's only a kernel. | 20:13 |
| freem | it have no relation AFAIK with systemd folks, neither | 20:14 |
| Guest32 | I just saw that void compiled the rstudio against musl | 20:14 |
| Guest32 | but I am feared to take void | 20:14 |
| Guest32 | because of bugs | 20:14 |
| Guest32 | lol | 20:14 |
| Guest32 | same stuff like the nixos | 20:15 |
| Guest32 | imo | 20:15 |
| freem | why do you expect bugs? I ran void-musl for few years, never had any problem | 20:15 |
| freem | I stopped using void because it's package manager is bad, though | 20:15 |
| Guest32 | why you not using pacman then | 20:16 |
| Guest32 | xd | 20:16 |
| freem | because I'm not stupid? | 20:16 |
| Guest32 | but pacman fast | 20:16 |
| freem | sorry, but arch is the only distro I've tried that failed to install xorg because of a circular dep | 20:16 |
| freem | I don't care about fast, I care about correctness and usefulness | 20:16 |
| Guest32 | go freebsd | 20:17 |
| freem | if I'd pick a bsd, it would certainly not be freebsd. Probably more openbsd, because they don't have this crap of PAM | 20:18 |
| Guest32 | I am a gamer and rstudio user | 20:18 |
| Guest32 | lol | 20:18 |
| Guest32 | anything else I dont care | 20:18 |
| freem | I'm a gamer too. I use vim to code, though | 20:18 |
| freem | and I have managed enough systems that required physically moving to fix problems when shit happens to know the value of a sane core system. | 20:19 |
| Guest32 | but debian not good either | 20:20 |
| Guest32 | you install some thirdparty on debian sid | 20:20 |
| Guest32 | and kaboom | 20:20 |
| Guest32 | apt broken | 20:20 |
| Guest32 | :D | 20:20 |
| freem | using sid is not exactly recommended to begineers | 20:20 |
| Guest32 | I have to be on the bleeding edge since I use very recent hardware | 20:21 |
| Guest32 | so anything below bleeding doesnt work | 20:21 |
| freem | I have used sid for a long while, though. Switched my system back and forth stable to unstable+experimental several times, when I was younger. Works like a charm... when you know what you do. | 20:21 |
| freem | then use backports? | 20:21 |
| Guest32 | debian too hard | 20:22 |
| freem | also, if you're a dev, considering the dependencies of this tool, you probably can easily compile it and build a package for devuan | 20:22 |
| Guest32 | I am not a dev | 20:22 |
| Guest32 | :D | 20:22 |
| Guest32 | O | 20:22 |
| freem | I see | 20:22 |
| Guest32 | I just get cancer when I see bugs in journalctl | 20:22 |
| freem | I use debian without any systemd crap, since a decade or something | 20:23 |
| freem | and I'm also pretty certain that using systemd does NOT requires you to use journalctl | 20:23 |
| Guest32 | ye but I looked there because ai told me and then I saw how much that shit is spamming, then I thought about my disk life | 20:24 |
| Guest32 | then I got sad because of retards or journalctl | 20:24 |
| Guest32 | :') | 20:25 |
| Guest32 | I mean maybe gentoo is worth a try | 20:25 |
| Guest32 | but how to even install that | 20:25 |
| Guest32 | my cpu cant even compile | 20:25 |
| freem | I see lof of mentions they love open source, but no link to actual source code lol | 20:26 |
| freem | a human trusting AI too much about bugs in journalctl is probably a pebcak type of bug | 20:27 |
| freem | ah, finally: https://github.com/rstudio/rstudio (but no link on the official website, sigh... also, github, for FOSS lovers? sigh...) | 20:28 |
| freem | in any case, trying to compile a whole OS to avoid compiling a single program? That's weird to me | 20:29 |
| freem | I'd just donwload a source tarball from their github, read https://github.com/rstudio/rstudio/blob/main/INSTALL, install cmake, gcc and deps, do "cd rstudio; mkdir build; cd build; cmake .. && make && echo 'lets call that a day'" | 20:30 |
| freem | I have no reason to expect any problem in the build process that would be caused by a lack of systemd on the system | 20:31 |
| freem | (considering the little digging I did, it's likely libsystemd0 is only around because of some dep optionally relies on it, and since most distros integrate systemd those days anyway...) | 20:32 |
| fsmithred | freem, libsystemd0 is not a banned package. | 20:32 |
| freem | it's not? So even better, Guest32 can just dpkg -i the package | 20:32 |
| fsmithred | and libelogind0 might satisfy the dep | 20:33 |
| fsmithred | or libelogind-compat - I'm not sure what that does. | 20:33 |
| freem | fsmithred: the declared deps in the DEBIAN/control file are those: "Depends: libssl-dev, libclang-dev, libsqlite3-0, libxkbcommon-x11-0, libc6 (>= 2.7)" | 20:33 |
| fsmithred | what's the name of the package in the repo? | 20:33 |
| freem | so I highly doubt elogind is needed :D | 20:34 |
| freem | it's not in any repo, upstream simply provide deb files for debian and ubuntu | 20:34 |
| fsmithred | ok, I was thinking of trying a simulated install, but not if it's not in repo | 20:35 |
| fsmithred | all that r-clang stuff is not the main deal? | 20:35 |
| fsmithred | r-cran I meant | 20:36 |
| fsmithred | what comes up on 'apt-cache search rstudio' | 20:36 |
| freem | the only package I could find with rstudio in the name in r-cran-rstudioapi, not the one Guest32 wants | 20:36 |
| freem | apparently it's just some API to integrate r-cran with rstudio | 20:37 |
| freem | rstudio being AGPL, and apparently embedding a server. I don't know R nor python (nor give a shit about those) so I can't tell more | 20:37 |
| Guest32 | my pc would crash compiling something | 20:37 |
| Guest32 | lol | 20:37 |
| freem | why that? | 20:38 |
| Guest32 | i have i9 9700t | 20:38 |
| freem | and? | 20:38 |
| Guest32 | that is igpu | 20:38 |
| Guest32 | lol | 20:38 |
| freem | no relation | 20:38 |
| Guest32 | it would crash I tried it once I think | 20:38 |
| freem | I'm a C++ dev, using "Intel(R) Pentium(R) Gold G5500 CPU @ 3.80GHz" much cheaper and probably older than yours, iGPU as well. I can compile everything just fine. | 20:38 |
| Guest32 | why is devuan warning to use devuan? | 20:38 |
| Guest32 | :D | 20:38 |
| freem | iGPU is, btw, for Graphics Processing Unit | 20:38 |
| freem | compilation process does not usually use GPU | 20:39 |
| Guest32 | daedalus is someone who got killed by the sun | 20:39 |
| freem | are you not confused with Icare? | 20:39 |
| Guest32 | igpu is cpu and gpu both together in one | 20:40 |
| freem | yes, I know. And? | 20:40 |
| Guest32 | I also have rx 7600 amd that is why I need bleeding edge | 20:40 |
| freem | anyway, I really think you should try to compile this yourself. If you have troubles doing so, I can help | 20:40 |
| Guest32 | so I cant compile :D | 20:40 |
| freem | there is no relation | 20:40 |
| Guest32 | devuan is too outdated isnt it | 20:41 |
| Guest32 | ? | 20:41 |
| freem | compilation process have NO RELATION with your graphics accelerator | 20:41 |
| Guest32 | debian 12 is devuan | 20:41 |
| Guest32 | very old | 20:41 |
| freem | well, ping me if you really try to install this, instead of critisizing projects because of their main advantage: stability. | 20:41 |
| freem | I'll go back at fixing some maths bugs in a C++ game I'm modding | 20:42 |
| Guest32 | how to get devuan excalibur | 20:42 |
| freem | with my debian 12, systemd-less, and iGPU | 20:42 |
| Guest32 | I have to change the source.list to change from deadalus to excalibur right?? | 20:44 |
| Guest32 | oh no | 20:44 |
| Guest32 | or is there an iso | 20:46 |
| Guest32 | freem what is the kernel of excalibur | 20:48 |
| golinux | freem: Why are systemd files present in Devuan? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 | 20:50 |
| golinux | "libsystemd0 is used by some daemons to verify if systemd is running or not. If it's not, libsystemd is *totally* *harmless*." | 20:50 |
| freem | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=linux-image-amd64&x=submit | 20:50 |
| freem | golinux: I know well what libsystemd0 is don't worry, but not being a devuan user right now, I could not tell for certain if that'd break or not. I also could not find it on the pkginfo.devuan.org tool | 20:51 |
| freem | ah, they left | 20:52 |
| freem | a R user is likely a scientist, but what is worth a scientist which can't RTFM? | 20:52 |
| freem | scientist or someone related to science stuff. Question still applies... | 20:53 |
| golinux | offtopic | 20:53 |
| freem | anyway, guess I'm done | 20:53 |
| freem | yeah | 20:53 |
| golinux | Competence is difficult to find anywhere these days . . . | 20:54 |
| golinux | (more OT) | 20:54 |
| Guest87 | It says sys Linux uefi bootloader booting devuan but it is not booting | 20:54 |
| Guest87 | Maybe because secureboot ? | 21:00 |
| Guest87 | Sheesh | 21:00 |
| fsmithred | Guest87, are you trying to boot an excalibur installer iso? | 21:02 |
| Guest87 | @fsmirhred it had a weird error did not work | 21:25 |
| Guest87 | Why is there no telegram channel | 21:29 |
| fsmithred | right. The excalibur isos have some problems. Someone is working on it. | 21:30 |
| fsmithred | best bet is to install daedalus and then add backports kernel or maybe upgrade to excalibur, but it's still changing fast. It'll be like that until debian trixie goes into freeze. Which might be soon. | 21:33 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!