| TorC | BTW, gnarface, I've been able to kill the process for an active screenlock to gain access to a session without having to change the password to deal with a frozen screenlocker. I don't recall off the top of my head what the current plasma screenlocker is, though. | 00:48 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | TorC: yea i don't know KDE well enough to mess with it too much, i don't actually use this machine | 00:59 |
| TorC | Used to be kscreenlock, IIRC. Not something I have to use terribly often. | 01:10 |
| gnarface | hiddendjinn: can we make a test case to see if updates is populating for you? i was mistaken that this whole thing is working, either i was looking at cached data last time or the memory is from before it was upgraded to daedalus - updates are populating but all the other menus are empty, so it does indeed appear broken, just not sure for how long | 01:12 |
| gnarface | TorC: no worries, i have access to it now | 01:12 |
| gnarface | hiddendjinn: but updates are populating, and the sources panel actually seems to even be recognizing commented repos (showing them but with empty checkboxes by default next to them) so could you make a test also with no extraneous comments in your sources.list to see if that does anything differently? | 01:14 |
| hiddendjinn | so, you want me to make a new sources.list or just add a line to it? | 01:15 |
| hiddendjinn | gnarface: | 01:16 |
| gnarface | hiddendjinn: i don't want you to make any functional changes to it, i just want you to remove all commented lines | 01:16 |
| gnarface | so it's literally just the active sources | 01:16 |
| gnarface | nothing like # cdrom://... | 01:16 |
| gnarface | or # this file was auto-generated by whatever | 01:16 |
| gnarface | when we originally talked about this all i checked was the updates panel | 01:17 |
| gnarface | hiddendjinn: (if you want to back up what you had and make a new one to test this case i don't care, that shouldn't matter one way or another) | 01:18 |
| hiddendjinn | ok, it changed in discover, but didn't fix anything | 01:19 |
| gnarface | hmm, i wonder if you can you add some random repo and see if its updates show in the updates panel? | 01:20 |
| hiddendjinn | suggestion? | 01:20 |
| gnarface | uh... winehq maybe? | 01:20 |
| gnarface | or videolan | 01:21 |
| gnarface | but don't actually install anything | 01:21 |
| gnarface | just wanna see if the updates show up | 01:21 |
| gnarface | even a later release of devuan would probably do the trick, but be careful | 01:22 |
| gnarface | you wouldn't want to accidentally start a release upgrade.. | 01:22 |
| hiddendjinn | ok, i used the winhq instructions to add the repo | 01:24 |
| hiddendjinn | and it didn't show the winehq repo, even though apt in konsole synced the repo | 01:25 |
| hiddendjinn | i followed the instructions to add the repo from https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Debian-Ubuntu for bullseye | 01:26 |
| gnarface | daedalus should be equivalent to bookworm, not bullseye | 01:27 |
| gnarface | i do recall having to manually copy over a gpg key or something for winehq | 01:27 |
| gnarface | actually i don't think i even had to manually copy it i might have merely had to change the format | 01:27 |
| gnarface | then refer to it in the sources.list | 01:28 |
| hiddendjinn | ok, removed the bullseye from sources.list.d | 01:28 |
| hiddendjinn | added bookworm | 01:28 |
| gnarface | deb [arch=amd64,i386 signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/winehq.gpg] http://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian/ bookworm main | 01:28 |
| gnarface | this is the line i used see, but i had to create /etc/apt/keyrings/winehq.gpg manually | 01:28 |
| gnarface | this is a recent change | 01:28 |
| hiddendjinn | i didn't do it manually | 01:28 |
| hiddendjinn | i'm running daedalus | 01:28 |
| golinux | Why are you using Debian sources at all? | 01:28 |
| hiddendjinn | i'm generally not | 01:29 |
| hiddendjinn | i added this as a test | 01:29 |
| hiddendjinn | to see if it would populate with discover | 01:29 |
| golinux | All relevant Debian packages are filtered and merged with our repos | 01:29 |
| hiddendjinn | golinux: trying to troubleshoot an issue | 01:29 |
| golinux | Yes. I noticed . . . ;) | 01:30 |
| golinux | It has been a marathon! | 01:30 |
| hiddendjinn | this is more a devuan issue than a personal one, since i'm able to use apt no problem | 01:30 |
| hiddendjinn | but it irritates me, and i'd like it resolved so no one has it | 01:31 |
| gnarface | golinux: there's part of the thing about updating the system with KDE Discover that we can't test because the system was already updated, so we were just floundering for 3rd party repos that have devuan-compatible debian packages we knew wouldn't be already installed, to try to establish a test case | 01:32 |
| hiddendjinn | golinux: i believe it traces to software-properties-{qt|gtk} which plasma-discover and gnome-software use to manage repositories | 01:33 |
| hiddendjinn | but i'm not sure where it goes from there | 01:33 |
| hiddendjinn | i mean, seriously, synaptic works fine | 01:44 |
| fsmithred | would a daedalus desktop-live iso with kde instead of xfce that was made in 2022 be helpful? I have one sitting here that I could upload. | 01:46 |
| fsmithred | gnarface, ^^^ | 01:47 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: not sure really, but if hiddendjinn wants or [NoClan]GoAway want to test it... | 01:48 |
| hiddendjinn | it might be | 01:52 |
| hiddendjinn | fsmithred: | 01:52 |
| fsmithred | I'm booting the iso now. What is the test? | 01:53 |
| fsmithred | all the software on it is at least two years old. | 01:53 |
| hiddendjinn | fsmithred: load discover, click home | 01:53 |
| hiddendjinn | if it populates, good to go | 01:53 |
| hiddendjinn | if it fails, you reprlicated my issue | 01:53 |
| hiddendjinn | replicated, even | 01:54 |
| fsmithred | np, I read what you mean, not what you type. | 01:54 |
| fsmithred | my eyes aren't as good as they used to be. | 01:54 |
| hiddendjinn | i'm going to try something: purge plasma-discover* | 01:55 |
| fsmithred | I got the crash handler when the desktop came up. | 01:55 |
| hiddendjinn | then reinstall discover without flatpak | 01:55 |
| fsmithred | kded5 segfault | 01:55 |
| hiddendjinn | i don't get that | 01:55 |
| fsmithred | np, I have to reboot it anyway. network failed with qemu. I'll use vbox. | 01:58 |
| hiddendjinn | brb, going to go into wayland | 02:01 |
| hiddendjinn | and see if that helps any | 02:01 |
| fsmithred | "unable to load applications. Please check internet connectivity." | 02:07 |
| fsmithred | I can ping devuan.org so yes, I have internet but discover can't figure that out. | 02:07 |
| paculino | Maybe it is trying to use a particular mirror that is down? | 02:09 |
| hiddendjinn | ain't that a ***** | 02:12 |
| hiddendjinn | plasma-workspace-wayland refuses to load | 02:12 |
| hiddendjinn | from sddm, it dumps me back into sddm | 02:12 |
| hiddendjinn | from lightdm, it locks | 02:12 |
| fsmithred | "no component found for org.devuan.devuan" <- started plasma-discover in terminal | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | I checked sources.list and only the one main line was enable. I uncommented -security and -updates but that didn't change discover and neither did 'apt update'. | 02:21 |
| fsmithred | I could not figure out how to edit the sources in discover other than the checkboxes. | 02:22 |
| fsmithred | and I don't know where "org.devuan.devuan" is coming from. Could that be hard-coded in discover? | 02:24 |
| hiddendjinn | no telling | 02:25 |
| hiddendjinn | i can't edit the sources either...looks like you found a similar issue | 02:25 |
| hiddendjinn | welp, looks like wayland doesn't work | 02:32 |
| hiddendjinn | not on this hardware, at least | 02:32 |
| hiddendjinn | rather, not with devuan | 02:33 |
| hiddendjinn | cause i've seen wayland work on other distros | 02:33 |
| greenjeans | hello folks | 02:35 |
| golinux | Hi greenjeans | 02:35 |
| greenjeans | hi sister | 02:36 |
| hiddendjinn | fsmithred: i see the same, no component found for org.devuan.devuan | 02:41 |
| hiddendjinn | i could try to use tasksel to add gnome or gnome classic to see if something similar happens there | 02:42 |
| fsmithred | I downloaded plasma source from salsa.debian.org and grepped for devuan. Nothing came up. | 02:43 |
| hiddendjinn | grep it for debian | 02:43 |
| hiddendjinn | i went back to nouveau driver thinking that was the issue | 02:44 |
| hiddendjinn | it wasn't | 02:44 |
| hiddendjinn | i'll put the nvidia tesla driver back in soon | 02:44 |
| hiddendjinn | looks like wayland is broken on devuan as well | 02:45 |
| golinux | A lot of folks are using wayland . . . | 02:47 |
| greenjeans | not me | 02:47 |
| hiddendjinn | well, at least for this hardware | 02:48 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7068 <- wayland on devuan | 02:48 |
| fsmithred | amd works, nvidia not | 02:48 |
| hiddendjinn | fsmithred: fair | 02:48 |
| greenjeans | everything works on amd | 02:49 |
| hiddendjinn | yeah, i have a geforce gt 750m | 02:49 |
| hiddendjinn | apple edition | 02:49 |
| hiddendjinn | fsmithred: i wasn't trying to make any unfounded claims... | 02:53 |
| hiddendjinn | fsmithred: just trying to work out kinks that should otherwise be working, fwiw(particularly discover/gnome-software) | 02:54 |
| hiddendjinn | same issue exists in gnome | 03:24 |
| hiddendjinn | you can't do anything with the software repositories | 03:24 |
| golinux | <hiddendjinn> gnome has been a problem for a very long time https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ | 03:33 |
| golinux | Apologies for the OT | 03:34 |
| hiddendjinn | golinux: yeah, but this is a first i've seen this on plasma in a long while and i know it would confuse a new user | 03:35 |
| greenjeans | gnome<<< there's your problem right there | 03:50 |
| hiddendjinn | greenjeans: fwiw, it was worth an attempt | 03:50 |
| hiddendjinn | greenjeans: just to see what would happen | 03:50 |
| greenjeans | understood | 03:58 |
| gnarface | i wonder if the thing causing the problem is actually a server side change | 03:58 |
| hiddendjinn | ok, got the nvidia driver running again | 03:59 |
| hiddendjinn | it's as good as it's going to get for the moment | 03:59 |
| hiddendjinn | ok, i think i've actually trashed my filesystem | 05:17 |
| hiddendjinn | audio isn't working now | 05:17 |
| hiddendjinn | i screwed up...if there's a quick way to get audio back up, i'd appreciate the info | 05:21 |
| golinux | asoundrc? | 05:23 |
| golinux | Works for me but I am still on chimaera | 05:24 |
| hiddendjinn | i'm just going to whip out the boot usb and start over tomorrow | 05:36 |
| comborico1611 | Can't get my bluetooth working on newest Refracta | 05:50 |
| gnarface | stick around, someone might have a solution... | 05:51 |
| comborico1611 | Yes, I get help here often. lsusb lists Foxconn / Hon Hai USB host controller. Bluetooth is working on Mint. | 05:57 |
| gnarface | comborico1611: maybe you're missing one of the firmware packages, not sure which, but probably something from non-free-firmware | 06:40 |
| gnarface | comborico1611: oh, yes, some google searches reveal that it's probably the firmware-atheros package that you're missing: https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=160677 | 06:43 |
| comborico1611 | gnarface, thank you! I will check it now | 07:17 |
| foolload | Hi guys | 12:12 |
| lilianfornea | Hi. Is anyone here using XFCE? | 12:22 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it's the default desktop | 12:24 |
| fsmithred | if you have a question, just ask and then be patient. Might be minutes or hours before you get an answer. | 12:24 |
| lilianfornea | I installed it, checked for updated and system says that is up to date. My version is XFCE 4.18 Devuan Stable. Is it latest version? | 12:30 |
| fsmithred | I think so. You did a netinstall? | 12:30 |
| fsmithred | of daedalus? | 12:30 |
| fsmithred | if you used a network mirror, you got the latest stable. | 12:31 |
| lilianfornea | Yes. NetInstall. Daedalus | 12:31 |
| fsmithred | you're all set | 12:31 |
| lilianfornea | Network mirror. Official Moldova | 12:31 |
| fsmithred | cool | 12:32 |
| fsmithred | didn't know we had one there | 12:32 |
| lilianfornea | md.deb.devuan.org | 12:34 |
| lilianfornea | xfce 4.20 is only in unstable version? | 12:38 |
| hagbard | also in testing | 12:43 |
| lilianfornea | How much time it will take to appear in stable release, approximately? | 12:58 |
| djph | of ... Debian/Devuan? Next release, or the one thereafter | 12:59 |
| lilianfornea | Devuan, of course | 12:59 |
| lilianfornea | 4.20 in Devuan 6.xx??? | 13:00 |
| lilianfornea | Xfce 4.20 in Devuan 6.0?? | 13:00 |
| djph | ultimately depends on whether the devteam here diverges that much from Debian's repos; but I don't think they do for teh DEs | 13:00 |
| djph | "6" would be ... Excalibur, which is, AIUI, already "testing" (so should be pretty near "stable" already) | 13:01 |
| buZz | debian rarely has 'latest versions' because they want to test stuff before forcing it upon users :) | 13:03 |
| buZz | same with devuan | 13:03 |
| buZz | if you want all bugs before everyone seen them and fixed them, you can run arch or something ;) | 13:04 |
| djph | So, if it's in Ceres (I don't know if it is), then chances are it'd be the next testing release after that, yeah? | 13:04 |
| lilianfornea | No, no. Devuan is my option | 13:04 |
| buZz | good | 13:05 |
| buZz | i recommend just settling for whatever versions are supplied | 13:05 |
| buZz | upgrades will come eventually :) | 13:05 |
| lilianfornea | From what I understand, now in March, we are waiting for the new version of Devuan, 6.0 | 13:06 |
| buZz | well, dont hold your breath ;) it will always take some time after the debian release | 13:06 |
| buZz | i think fastest devuan followed debian was a couple months still? | 13:07 |
| lilianfornea | Maybe summer | 13:07 |
| buZz | what actual feature are you desiring from xfce 4.20 vs current version? | 13:08 |
| lilianfornea | Black Theme. Maybe new icons. Idk | 13:09 |
| lilianfornea | I don't wait something global new | 13:10 |
| buZz | sounds not that mission critical :) | 13:10 |
| lilianfornea | Ok, Guys. Thx for your replies. It was faster than I thought for IRC | 13:14 |
| fsmithred | in March??? | 13:25 |
| fsmithred | Maybe debian will begin freezing trixie in march. | 13:25 |
| fsmithred | and might release before the end of 2025 | 13:26 |
| fsmithred | and we release probably a couple months after debian. | 13:27 |
| buZz | right | 13:27 |
| dosensuppe | plasma41: still dependency problems. https://pastecode.io/s/8vn1x7mf | 21:52 |
| metala | does anyone anyone have an issue on daedalus with amd zen3 apu failing to shutdown due to display port? I will check the dmesg tomorrow, when I get back to the office. | 21:59 |
| gnarface | metala: no zen3 cpus here, but how do you know it's due to display port? and do you mean display port or DisplayPort? | 22:02 |
| metala | ah, true DisplayPort. | 22:02 |
| gnarface | i do have a problem here that's been happening since (i think) chimaera, where it usually takes a really long time "deactivating swap," so long that it might easily be assumed to have hung, but always finishes | 22:04 |
| gnarface | seems to be related to system uptime, since it rarely happens twice in a row if the reboots are close together in time | 22:04 |
| metala | it happens when I switch the monitor to HDMI and then this workstation stops showing the display in xrandr, nothing in the dmesg at moment. Then when I poweroff the machine it show a black screen and it hangs. Reproducable, just I need to switch the monitor HDMI <-> DP a few times and it happens. | 22:05 |
| gnarface | (my guess is it zeros all the swap and since i'm still using spinning platters with 16GB for swap that is why it takes so long, i would like to turn this feature off) | 22:05 |
| metala | I avoid swap to decrease ssd wear and to have predictable performance. | 22:06 |
| gnarface | oh? no swap? well you should use zramswap instead, as it usually causes other instabilities to go without swap completely | 22:07 |
| metala | None that I am aware of. I have no swap for years, even with HDD. | 22:09 |
| gnarface | anyway, that being the case sounds like it must be a driver issue or an issue with the display's logic itself, i'm not seeing it here but i don't actually swap displays around that much | 22:09 |
| gnarface | basically without swap, when you hit 0 free ram stuff just crashes | 22:09 |
| gnarface | if you always are careful not to use all your ram you'll never see that, but then you have to be careful | 22:09 |
| metala | yes | 22:09 |
| metala | same with swap, if you hit 0 free ram and swap there is oom swoop | 22:10 |
| gnarface | usually not | 22:10 |
| gnarface | not with well behaved programs that aren't actually leaking memory, anyway | 22:11 |
| gnarface | but there's plenty of bad ones out there i guess... | 22:11 |
| gnarface | anyway, next time it happens see if you can get it working again by unplugging the display and letting it time out, then setting it to the right input preemptively when you plug it back in | 22:12 |
| gnarface | the shutdown hang might still be unrelated | 22:13 |
| gnarface | what video card and driver set are you using? | 22:13 |
| gnarface | i had a problem like this on some ARM hardware, where the external HDMI connection was super picky about what displays it would use and wouldn't, then i realized there was some race condition that could usually be avoided if i didn't force the machine to wait for the display to auto-detect the right input and rather just set it to the right input and then plugged in the machine before the display noticed nothing was | 22:17 |
| gnarface | connected yet | 22:17 |
| gnarface | that might explain why you're only seeing it sometimes but can reliably reproduce it if you reconnect it a lot | 22:17 |
| gnarface | metala: ^ | 22:22 |
| metala | APU's Vega8 with amdgpu driver. I am not sure I'd be able to solve it this way. The issue is that I am reusing the central monitor between two machines and the desk can fit only that many machines and monitors. It was a long shot, but someone might have had an issue with DP themselves that can enlighten me. | 22:34 |
| gnarface | someone might have seen something more like it, but all i've seen here is that one similar issue with the ARM hardware i mentioned, and based on that i'd still recommend trying to alter your timing somehow to give it a chance to "settle" to see if that helps, or alternately if that doesn't work, be fast to prevent it from "settling" | 22:38 |
| gnarface | see if there's some timing threshold that can affect it | 22:38 |
| gnarface | the ARM hardware in question that i was using doesn't have amdgpu, but someone might have mentioned that its HDMI output requires HDMI cables that support "DP Alt Mode" so this still might be somewhat related... | 22:39 |
| gnarface | (i can't remember for sure if this model needed the "DP Alt Mode" feature cables, or if that was the other model) | 22:39 |
| metala | I need to add more details, once it fails to detect the display, restarting the display or detaching/reattaching the cable does not change anything, nothing happens in xrandr, notinhg shows up in dmesg. | 22:40 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 22:40 |
| gnarface | not even if you like, power off the display, give it 60 seconds of timeout, then power it back up? | 22:41 |
| metala | then I try to shutdown the machine and it freezes. If I do a soft restart, there is still only HDMI. Might be the hardware.. | 22:41 |
| metala | I take the power cord off the display, nothing. | 22:41 |
| gnarface | does your motherboard bios have a setup option to tell it to zero out your RAM between reboots? | 22:42 |
| gnarface | might not have one, but it might have one hidden in advanced options, make sure it's on, see if that helps at all for the problem of the issue persisting through reboot | 22:43 |
| metala | Ah. I will check that tommorow. The BIOS has a lof of options, more than I have seen in my life on any other machine. It just might have that one. | 22:43 |
| gnarface | not for an issue like this, but i have seen that setting able to fix the issue of "crashed driver persisting bad hardware state through reboot" | 22:44 |
| gnarface | also helps sometimes preventing a similar looking issue between kernel updates | 22:45 |
| gnarface | (when i say "not for an issue like this" i just mean not for a display related issue, specifically, but could still be related) | 22:46 |
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