| bleb | just tinkering | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bleb | I did a fresh kde install, then tried removing sddm | 00:01 |
| bleb | then a blue tui asked me to pick between sddm and lightdm | 00:01 |
| bleb | then I removed lightdm | 00:01 |
| bleb | then a blue tui asked me to pick between lightdm and slim | 00:01 |
| bleb | then if I uninstalled slim it automatically reinstalled lightdm, and vice versa | 00:01 |
| bleb | I think I settled on slim, then logged out and I have a black screen with a white pointer but no login dialog | 00:02 |
| bleb | what's up with that? | 00:02 |
| bleb | if I wanted to log in via the console then start x manually how would I go about setting that up? | 00:03 |
| debdog | start by figuring out which part of KDE hard-depends on a DM, hmmm | 00:04 |
| bleb | it looks like what's running on tty7 is /usr/lib/Xorg -nolisten tcp -auth /var/run/sddm/{...} -background none -noreset -displayfd 18 -seat seat0 vt7 | 00:05 |
| bleb | so that makes sense, the x session was left running but there's no more sddm to run | 00:05 |
| bleb | I guess if I wanted to use no dm I would have to uninstall kde first | 00:06 |
| debdog | have you disable to install recommended packages? maybe that helps? | 00:07 |
| debdog | or something like "aptitude why sddm" which should return the package responsible. | 00:12 |
| debdog | then aptitude show $package to check whether a DM is a hard requirement or only a recommendation | 00:12 |
| bleb | task-kde-desktop Depends lightdm | slim | sddm | 00:20 |
| bleb | bingo | 00:20 |
| bleb | it's cool everything is working as I would expect | 00:20 |
| debdog | with a WM it works here. never really used a DM | 00:21 |
| debdog | maybe you want to switch from DE to WM | 00:21 |
| bleb | I was just playing around to contrast this with debian, where when I ran apt remove lightdm from within xfce the apt process was killed and I had to run some repair commands and rerun the apt remove command from the console :x | 00:21 |
| debdog | or remove task-kde-desktop and install the kde parts one by one? | 00:23 |
| bleb | I don't actually want it lol but thanks for the suggestions | 00:23 |
| onefang | AlexLikeRock isn't on at the moment, and I just woke up. But I'll throw Cgit into the ring for long overdue github replacements. You host it yourself, but I run a server anyway, so that's what I do. Currently I'm using Mantis for bug tracking, but that's not in our repos, so I want to switch to something that is. | 00:26 |
| bleb | so the annoyance I ran into on debian wasn't actually due to debian vs. devuan, but rather with lightdm | 00:46 |
| bleb | in devuan, if I am logged in with lightdm and run apt remove lightdm, I am similarly booted out of the session before the apt process finishes, and have to run dpkg --configure -a etc. | 00:47 |
| bleb | interestingly slim still kills your session but apt is not left in a broken state | 00:48 |
| bleb | so maybe the slim uninstall scripts run after the apt process finishes, whereas lightdm scripts run before apt is done? not sure what would account for that discrepancy | 00:49 |
| rrq | not sure what you'd expect though; the display manager is (grand) parent process of the apt process and it gets killed, which gets propagated into apt killing itself... | 01:39 |
| rrq | you'd have to spawn the apt process as detached from the shell for it to succeed when the (of course) the shell gets killed | 01:41 |
| rrq | and if you also use a session manager then if'd be hard since then the processes are also bound via cgroup-ing | 01:43 |
| rrq | people have spent years making it so that all session processes get killed when the session leader is terminated | 01:45 |
| bleb | yet it works differently for slim and sdde | 02:08 |
| bleb | in general a binary can be uninstalled without killing processes that are running that binary | 02:09 |
| bleb | so I was expecting the session to keep running, which happened with kde | 02:09 |
| bleb | s/sdde/sddm/ | 02:09 |
| bleb | huh, on debian kde does not depend on a display manager | 02:17 |
| bleb | I can uninstall the display manager and start kde with startx | 02:17 |
| bleb | well, even with no display manager debian boot times lag behind devuan by ~2 seconds :o | 03:13 |
| gnarface | i'm surprised it's only 2 | 03:17 |
| gnarface | you could probably kick a few things overboard and raise that to 10 | 03:18 |
| bleb | but systemd reduces boot times! | 03:20 |
| gnarface | it was also supposed to be more secure | 03:21 |
| gnarface | but anyone smart knew that was a lie up front | 03:21 |
| bleb | yup | 03:22 |
| gnarface | they literally said that it would be faster because sysvinit doesn't support dependency-based parallel booting, months (years?) after the actual sysvinit build in debian had been patched to support dependency-based parallel booting | 03:24 |
| gnarface | now, i don't think these people actually were that detached from reality, i just think they never considered themselves subject to it, because they're in some sort of cult | 03:25 |
| gnarface | but that's all off topic | 03:25 |
| bleb | pretty cool | 03:40 |
| onefang | Dunno about Debian, but I implemented dependency based parallel booting in my own version of Sys V init, coz it was part of the LSB standard. That was years befare systemd. | 03:57 |
| freem | [03:21:20] <gnarface> it was also supposed to be more secure | 05:48 |
| freem | thanks for the laugh | 05:48 |
| freem | if point is to boot in //, daemontools predates systemd since long, and are much less intrusive. But all here probably know that kind of stuff. | 05:50 |
| Nrml_ | Howdy everyone. In case you haven't seen: https://techrights.org/n/2024/11/27/There_Are_More_Devuan_Based_Distros_of_GNU_Linux_Each_Year.shtml | 23:44 |
| Nrml_ | And, happy 10 years birthday to Devuan, and many props and thanks to all involved, developers specially! | 23:45 |
| cirith_ungol | this is a good list: https://www.devuan.org/os/devuan-distros | 23:46 |
| cirith_ungol | can't believe it's been 10 years | 23:46 |
| Nrml_ | :-) \o/ | 23:47 |
| Nrml_ | time goes fast when we're all giving big FU to systemd :-) | 23:48 |
| golinux | Celebrating 10 years of Devuan! https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6942 | 23:51 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!