| AlexLikeRock | The solution was just to tell DBus to reload the config again, manually, once the user was there. | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| AlexLikeRock | I also saw the same error once when I somehow managed to deleted or break permissions (I forget which) on polkit's own config files. | 00:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | any one can tell me how to reload config ? | 00:07 |
| Hurgotron | repoad polkit? just kill polkitd, should start again automatically | 00:15 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok | 00:15 |
| AlexLikeRock | reload config , please Hurgotron | 00:24 |
| AlexLikeRock | not the program | 00:24 |
| Hurgotron | no difference really | 00:24 |
| * onefang wakes up and reads through n4dir's JACK problem. Straight away I knew what was wrong, let's see if they figured it out. | 01:04 | |
| n4dir | i didn't figure it out, onefang | 01:07 |
| onefang | One thing to keep in mind about ALSA and JACK is that they are per user. Which is why you have config files for them in your home directory. | 01:08 |
| onefang | I've been writing my aataaj.lua script to try to deal with all of that automatically. It's almost ready. | 01:09 |
| onefang | Running JACK things at login is the way it wants to run. | 01:09 |
| n4dir | let me look what i have to start jack | 01:11 |
| n4dir | jackd -d alsa -dhw:CODEC -r 48000 -p256 & | 01:11 |
| onefang | The sticking point I'm stuck on is getting things to happen properly at boot time for blind users. My other goals are sorted. | 01:11 |
| n4dir | not even sure if that was the version which finally worked or which didn't work | 01:11 |
| n4dir | so, i really kinda enjoy the comfort of a gui | 01:11 |
| onefang | qjackctl and cadence are your friends then. | 01:12 |
| n4dir | onefang: really thanks for answering that much later, or asking. I am mainly wondering, in general i seldom log out at all. So it is more of a "out of i interest" than a problem | 01:13 |
| onefang | Same here really. lol | 01:13 |
| n4dir | :-) | 01:13 |
| onefang | But since I had to put together a portable synth using one of my spare computers, thought I would automate it all. | 01:14 |
| n4dir | I once set up a PC to autostart jack and then fluidsynth, so i wouldn't even need a monitor to play piano via the digital piano | 01:14 |
| n4dir | but i don't do it anymore, as now have a nice digital piano with nice sound | 01:14 |
| onefang | Exactly what I wanted. SNAP! | 01:14 |
| n4dir | the script is from back then, but it doesn't really work anymore | 01:14 |
| n4dir | oh, a synth, portable. Now we talk about things | 01:14 |
| n4dir | you use fluidsynth or how? | 01:15 |
| onefang | qsynth as a wrapper around fluidsynth. | 01:15 |
| n4dir | my script is much of a clusterfeck, but i could upload it anyway, you probably are there already anyway | 01:15 |
| n4dir | yeah, for fluid i didn't even need to start the gui, the PC was crap, so i gave all ressources to just "jack and fluid" | 01:16 |
| onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/cgit/JackOnAllDevices/ yep, I'm there. Needs cleanup and documenting though. | 01:16 |
| n4dir | that is your script? | 01:16 |
| onefang | Yep. | 01:17 |
| n4dir | i am not really focused right now. been fiddling with a synth for a bit and now kinda confused, can't switch to reading scripts | 01:17 |
| onefang | Fair enough. | 01:17 |
| n4dir | if i ever will want to start jack from cli again, and use fluid and or qsynth, i know who to ask | 01:17 |
| onefang | Might be more docs by then to. lol | 01:18 |
| n4dir | well, if you like you could have a quick look at my script and tell me what is just plain wrong. | 01:18 |
| n4dir | if you don't like that is fine | 01:18 |
| onefang | It's early Friday morning here, I got work stuff to catch up on. | 01:18 |
| n4dir | script, lol, it's like 5 lines or such. | 01:18 |
| n4dir | yeah, all good. | 01:19 |
| n4dir | sounds like australia or such | 01:19 |
| onefang | Yep, Brisbane Australia. | 01:19 |
| n4dir | again, thanks for asking, and have a beautiful day :-) | 01:19 |
| onefang | Just got back from morning shopping when I started catching up on the nights messages. | 01:19 |
| onefang | You are welcome. Helping out this sort of thing is why I wrote my script and put it on my server. It just needs to mature. | 01:20 |
| n4dir | onefang: i spoke about it with f-smithred. My mother is slowly going blind. So if ever bored, you might tell me a bit about your approach | 01:20 |
| n4dir | general plan is to get her an Amazon box, but still, out of interest | 01:21 |
| n4dir | oh, well, i don't speak lua anyway ... grml | 01:22 |
| onefang | Ah so you know fsmithred's plan is to get the screen reader software running as early in Devuan as possible. Using my script to try to identify which of several audio devices is actually plugged into speakers. | 01:22 |
| n4dir | all bit above me. I don't fiddle a lot with several audio devices. But i start to understand | 01:23 |
| onefang | In my experiments I'm finding that graphics cards tend to have at LEAST one audio device per video output. and tend to have many of those. MAin reason why my desktop has 12 audio devices, six of them are on the graphics card, which only has four video autputs. shrugs | 01:24 |
| onefang | So trying to identify which one you can actually hear at boot time is important sometimes. | 01:25 |
| onefang | And I need to learn to type better. lol | 01:25 |
| onefang | Back soon. | 01:28 |
| n4dir | bye-bye, for now | 01:30 |
| Guest8446 | hello | 01:48 |
| gnarface | well if Guest8446 comes back tell them to stick around longer... | 01:51 |
| onefang | Soooo, today I was planning on getting stuck into apt-panopticon coding, but I'll briefly describe what's up with aataaj.lua. | 01:57 |
| onefang | We want Devuan live ISOs to be more user friendly, and some of those users are blind, or going blind as n4dir mentioned. | 01:58 |
| * n4dir listens carefully | 01:58 | |
| onefang | So one goal is to jump in as early as possible during the boot process, and try to identify any audio devices that are actually connected to speakers, such that the user can actually hear it. Then we can pass that device to the console reader, so it can read out what ever else happens on the console during and after boot. | 01:59 |
| onefang | One big problem is the excess number of audio devices you might find in an average computer. Graphics card makers in particular go over the top. | 02:00 |
| n4dir | i see | 02:01 |
| onefang | My example is my own desktop. I didn't buy the motherboard or graphics cards for their audio, but between them there's TEN audio devices. | 02:01 |
| onefang | At most only three of them will have speakers plugged in at any given time. | 02:02 |
| onefang | Next big problem is sub devices. They seem to be working much better AFTER you log in. So my graphics card has six sub devices, only one of my monitors has speakers. Sub devices seems to be working differently at boot time than after login. That's the one big problem I have not solved yet. | 02:04 |
| n4dir | Well, i got the internal soundcard and an external one, and the internal one has a lot of subdevices, says HDMI, so to me all that is easy. If compared | 02:05 |
| n4dir | but i think i understand the problems caused by all that | 02:05 |
| onefang | So, what I do is - figure out all the audio devices and sub devices. Cut that down to output devices (some are input only). Through all of them at once tell the user that the devices are about to be listed, and they should pay attention to the one they can actually hear. Then I ask them through all devices at once to type which one they heard the best. That becomes the ALSA default device. | 02:05 |
| n4dir | ok | 02:06 |
| onefang | Causes problems when booting a LIVE ISO on a random computer. | 02:06 |
| n4dir | you use aplay -l ? | 02:07 |
| onefang | Later on, if you want JACK stuff, it'll start up JACK, a bunc hof things so all your ALSA devices are presented to JACK, hooks all the ALSA programs up to all the output devices, hooks up all your joysticks as MIDI controlers, runs auser script to start up GUIs like qsynth and MusE. | 02:08 |
| onefang | aplay is very useful for these things. But I do probe the operating system more directly. | 02:09 |
| n4dir | yeah, there is the script adevices.sh ; i can't make too much sense of it, as audio to me is weird. But the output seems more "parsable" | 02:09 |
| n4dir | if you got means to get that sorted, superfluous info | 02:10 |
| onefang | That's the whole point of my scripts. Automate it all, make things easy, then they can get on with their important things. | 02:11 |
| n4dir | got you. | 02:11 |
| n4dir | most things here get autoconnected. But i don't really do that many things. zynaddsubfx for example doesn't autoconnect (but yoshimi would be a workaround). I just use "catia" | 02:11 |
| onefang | So far its working at Sys V init level S< which becomes before level 2 on a typical Devuan install. Aiming for initramfs. | 02:12 |
| onefang | Catia is what I use for my GUI JACK plug bay to. | 02:12 |
| onefang | MusE autoconnects most of what it needs. I use jack-plumbing for most others, but that's a sorta scripting thing. | 02:13 |
| n4dir | fluidsynth has --connect-jack-outputs (small talk, not info needed) | 02:13 |
| onefang | Eventually I want to create a Devuan spin I want to call EARS, Live ISO full of all the audio stuff. | 02:16 |
| n4dir | So. Say all that is sorted. The user has choosen the device to use and all. He is blind, how can he move around on the "destkop" ? | 02:16 |
| n4dir | f-smithred said if you hover over say a menu entry, it gets read what the menu entry says? | 02:17 |
| onefang | That's what the screen reader and braile type stuff that exists already is for. | 02:17 |
| n4dir | but the user doesn't talk to the PC/device, right? He still uses say the mouse? | 02:17 |
| onefang | Though last time I worked with blind people they where more cli types, and that was long ago. So not sure what it's like on desktop these days. | 02:18 |
| n4dir | i got really hard times imagine how it is to be blind. | 02:19 |
| onefang | No doubt I can find some blind locals to help me get a fresh handle on what they need, and what works. | 02:20 |
| onefang | Met the last lot through a local Linux computer club. | 02:20 |
| n4dir | yeah. Probably there is an organisation for the blind too. They might have "something" | 02:20 |
| n4dir | that distro based on Knoppix for the blind or visually impaired doesn't exist anymore? | 02:21 |
| onefang | Or I get the tech working, let fsmithred and others deal with the user interface parts. B-) | 02:21 |
| n4dir | ha. | 02:22 |
| n4dir | kinda dreaming: What would also be cool was if folks could just buy a "full set up", like the freedombox. Including a mic and speakers attached and all that | 02:23 |
| n4dir | if that makes sense | 02:23 |
| onefang | Makes sense. | 02:23 |
| n4dir | yup. | 02:23 |
| n4dir | Would also avoid also the what with this hardware, what with that hardware. Just one thing and it works out of box | 02:23 |
| onefang | Building ISO's I can do. Building computers I can do. Selling stuff is well out of my skill set. | 02:23 |
| n4dir | ha ha. Yeah, hence the "dreaming" | 02:24 |
| onefang | Enough dreaming. Now that my local Internet maintenance is allegedly over, I have networking stuff to work on today. apt-panopticon needs work. | 02:25 |
| n4dir | have fun. | 02:25 |
| onefang | For those that don't know, that's my tool for monitoring the performance of Devuan package mirrors. | 02:25 |
| * n4dir assumed something like that | 02:26 | |
| onefang | http://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 02:26 |
| onefang | If all goes well I might manage to remove some of that excess redness today. lol | 02:27 |
| onefang | Less red! B-) | 05:24 |
| rwp | onefang's eye drops gets the red out! | 05:41 |
| onefang | lol | 05:41 |
| Xenguy | .oO( Yes please, something that doesn't make eyes bleed ) | 06:22 |
| onefang | In the case of apt-panopticon, red is for errors, so the less of them the better. I suspect most of the rest are just slightly misconfigured nginx servers, and possibly not even important anymore. | 06:44 |
| onefang | The rest I'm fairly certain are actual problems at the mirror end. | 06:57 |
| AlexLikeRock | mornin | 16:30 |
| AlexLikeRock | targz, o/ | 16:43 |
| AlexLikeRock | como estas ? | 16:44 |
| madhat | do you guys manage your networks in devuan manually? | 17:03 |
| targz | AlexLikeRock: \o | 17:11 |
| djph | madhat: what do you mean? | 17:14 |
| madhat | i mean by using the wireless tools as opposed to using network-manager | 17:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | dbus is running. | 17:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/init.d/dbus status | 17:20 |
| madhat | it is | 17:21 |
| madhat | running | 17:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdb1 | 17:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | Error connecting to the udisks daemon: Could not connect: Permission denied | 17:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | how to connect udisk to dbus ? | 17:24 |
| AlexLikeRock | or granted permisions to normal user ? | 17:25 |
| rwp | I have always found that in practice dbus cannot be restarted, such as after an upgrade, because other running daemons stay attached to the old and don't re-attach to the new. | 18:59 |
| rwp | Therefore dbus must start at boot time. Or at least everything else that uses dbus must start after it. | 18:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | so | 19:00 |
| AlexLikeRock | how can find out? | 19:01 |
| rwp | Unless you took steps to stop dbus then it should start at boot time normally. Did you take steps to block dbus from starting? | 19:02 |
| AlexLikeRock | i dont now | 19:03 |
| rwp | But you can't just start it later. Or restart it later. That just doesn't work for the reasons mentioned. | 19:03 |
| rwp | I think if you don't know that you didn't do anything special to stop it. As long as you don't try to restart it later it should be okay. | 19:03 |
| rwp | In which case almost certainly the problem would be in the other programs trying to use it. | 19:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | how to restart udisk2 ? | 19:05 |
| rwp | I don't know as I have never used it. Hmm... I look and find https://askubuntu.com/questions/798504/how-to-manage-udisk-with-the-udisk-utilities | 19:06 |
| rwp | Not very helpful. | 19:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | udisksctl /dev/sdb1 | 19:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | Error connecting to the udisks daemon: Could not connect: Permission denied | 19:10 |
| rwp | I fear suggesting running it as root with sudo might not be the best answer but does it still complain in that case? "sudo udisksctl status" ?? | 19:14 |
| rwp | https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/udisks2/udisks.8.en.html says that it does not need to be priviledged to talk to the udisksd daemon as the daemon has the privilege. | 19:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | as root : work fine | 19:15 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, how CAJA/NAUTILUS work without privileges? | 19:15 |
| rwp | That confirms that functionality is there and if we understand the security model it is using then it can work. | 19:16 |
| rwp | Can you strace the process, save the file, and pastebin it and share the paste? strace -o /tmp/udisksctl.status.out -v udisksctl status | 19:17 |
| rwp | That will fail but it will create /tmp/udisksctl.status.out which will show all of the system calls used and the failure. Pastebin that to share it with us? | 19:17 |
| rwp | (side note to self, I really need to get my VM hosting fixed so I can create test systems more easily) | 19:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | strace -o /tmp/udisksctl.status.out -v udisksctl status | 19:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | bash: strace: command not found | 19:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | as normal user and root | 19:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | same answer | 19:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | cat /tmp/udisksctl.status.out | 19:30 |
| AlexLikeRock | cat: /tmp/udisksctl.status.out: No such file or directory | 19:30 |
| Hurgotron | "strace: command not found" means you should install strace first. apt install strace | 19:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok | 19:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | strace -o /tmp/udisksctl.status.out -v udisksctl status | 19:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | strace: Can't fopen '/tmp/udisksctl.status.out': Permission denied | 19:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | ar root | 19:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | as* | 20:00 |
| AlexLikeRock | as normal user : too | 20:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | strace: Can't f open | 20:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | no : sorri , wrong mensage | 20:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | Error connecting to the udisks daemon: Could not connect: Permission denied | 20:01 |
| Hurgotron | not quite sure what you are trying to do there | 20:02 |
| AlexLikeRock | not mount CAJA/nautilus , my pendrive | 20:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/init.d/dbus status | 20:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | dbus is running. | 20:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | and normal user : | 20:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdb1 | 20:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | Error connecting to the udisks daemon: Could not connect: Permission denied | 20:04 |
| rwp | AlexLikeRock, I only have limited time to help right now but the /tmp/udisksctl.status.out permission problem as root makes no sense. Root should have this permission. | 21:12 |
| rwp | What is the mode of /tmp ? And that file? ls -ld /tmp /tmp/udisksctl.status.out | 21:12 |
| rwp | Perhaps your permissions on /tmp are broken and that's affecting everything else? | 21:12 |
| AlexLikeRock | ls -ld /tmp | 21:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | drwxrwxrwt 8 root root 16384 Nov 15 12:03 /tmp | 21:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | i found it | 21:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | hold on .. | 21:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | https://paste.mozilla.org/T1SjLBYu | 21:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | rwp, | 21:16 |
| rwp | Those permissions on /tmp are correct. So that's not the problem. | 21:16 |
| rwp | Looking at the paste... | 21:17 |
| rwp | The critical line of information from your paste is this: connect(5, {sa_family=AF_UNIX, sun_path="/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket"}, 110) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) | 21:20 |
| rwp | On my system that looks like: srwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Oct 1 13:09 /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket | 21:20 |
| rwp | Does the permissisons on that socket look the same on your system? | 21:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | ls -ld /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket | 21:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | srwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Nov 15 10:27 /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket | 21:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 21:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | how need this permission ? | 21:22 |
| rwp | Hmm... Thinking... Those file permissions are open for all. So... I don't know. | 21:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | X_X | 21:23 |
| rwp | I can tell you some background on the UNIX Domain Socket there. That's a "network socket" on disk. The connect() system call is going to do a network connection to it. The expectation is that another process already has it open and is listen()'ing on the socket. That will connect the two processes up over the network connection. | 21:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | another error : openat(AT_FDCWD, "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/charset.alias", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) | 21:23 |
| rwp | Looking at "man 2 connect" EACCES may be because: EACCES For UNIX domain sockets, which are identified by pathname: Write permission is denied on the socket file, or search permission is denied for one of the directories in the path prefix. | 21:25 |
| rwp | Therefore I would look at the permissions of every directory in the path: ls -ld / /var /var/run /var/run/dbus /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket | 21:25 |
| rwp | It is possible that one of the directories above has limited permissions and that would cause the EACCES error. | 21:26 |
| rwp | The man page also lists SELinux policy denied as a possibility too. | 21:26 |
| AlexLikeRock | SELINUX | 21:26 |
| AlexLikeRock | its my fauld! | 21:26 |
| AlexLikeRock | thanks so much | 21:26 |
| AlexLikeRock | letme search at my firefox history | 21:26 |
| rwp | Oh? Excellent! Hopefully excellent anyway. Good luck. I must return to other work now. | 21:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | i screw out , i screw out | 21:27 |
| rwp | In the man page: EACCES It can also be returned if an SELinux policy denied a connection (for example, if there is a policy saying that an HTTP proxy can only connect to ports associated with HTTP servers, and the proxy tries to connect to a different port). | 21:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | nano /etc/selinux/config | 21:28 |
| AlexLikeRock | i change to : SELINUX=enforcing | 21:28 |
| AlexLikeRock | i will put back | 21:28 |
| AlexLikeRock | SELINUX=permissive | 21:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | reboot -f | 21:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | nop | 21:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | not work | 21:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | reinstalling udisk2 and gvfs .... | 21:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, what its defaul at this file ? /etc/selinux/config | 21:51 |
| AlexLikeRock | now im a confused | 21:51 |
| rustyaxe | did you reboot after changing it? | 22:56 |
| rustyaxe | You cant switch from enforcing back to permissive without a reboot | 22:56 |
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