libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2024-10-19

systemdletesomeone please explain to me why, if two daedalus systems have their apt-cachers pointed to the same server, one gets through apt update without errors, but the other complains about a bad key.00:34
systemdlete(and why this happens so intermittently)00:34
systemdleteand I can repeatedly run "apt update" on both, each getting consistent results every time.00:35
systemdletemake that 2 daedalus reporting a bad key (I just tested my other daedalus).00:38
systemdleteSo one works without fail, but 2 fail every time.00:38
systemdleteor get warnings anyway00:38
systemdletethis was working just a couple of days ago, and none were getting errors or warnings00:39
systemdleteI have not changed anything to do with apt or apt-cacher since then.00:39
systemdletefyi, it is only deadalus-security that gets the warnings. Every time.  On two of the daedalus systems, but not the one where it works.00:44
systemdletewell, now if that isn't "funny"...04:58
systemdleteNow it seems to be OK again.   And I did nothing since my long posts04:59
systemdlete????? !!!!!!04:59
systemdleteDr. heals itself04:59
systemdletehey, dad. When we grow up, can we get a real package management system?05:00
rrqyeah; despite the apt name, the apt-cacher is merely an http cacher and it's not actually part of the package management system.05:30
systemdletenot what I meant though.05:31
rrqspecifically it has no sense of "good or bad" files but simply downloads and caches whichever file it gets05:31
systemdleteIt just seems like apt was sort of tossed together, kind of like a garden salad.05:31
systemdleteI love garden salad, don't get me wrong.05:31
systemdleteI just wish apt wasn't so... idk.05:32
systemdleteand, you are right.  the cacher was slapped on top of the already slapped-together package system.05:32
systemdlete(they don't seem to like each other too much.  Or something)05:32
rrqapt works fine... but with caching proxy in between the bad files sometimes get served repeatedly05:33
systemdleteyes, apt works.  But I like pkg and pacman much more.05:33
rrqyeah .. ot sure I can tune that one :)05:34
rrq n05:34
systemdletebtw, I've noticed also that05:34
systemdletesometimes some aspect of the cacher causes a hiccup and if I wait long enough, it goes away on its own.  And that's not just the problem I reported here^^^05:35
rrqI think the cacher holds on to a file a while before confirming it ate the remote end05:36
systemdletegreat concept, poor implementation05:36
rrqand then, when the remote end is a round-robin, the remote file might stay with abad server for a while as well05:37
systemdleteI can see where that will cause issues intermittently.  But that doesn't explain what I saw today.05:38
systemdleteLike I said, rrq, the apt-cacher-ng server seems to be equipped with a randomizing mechanism of some kind in the context of serving its clients.05:38
systemdleteIt appears to be hanging on, somehow, to a misconfiguration or error with connection to specific clients.05:39
systemdletesomeday I might examine the code and see if I can figure it out.  I generally avoid reading other people's code because it causes all kinds of confusion in my head.05:40
rwpsystemdlete, I had to stop using apt-cacher-ng with Devuan due to the repeated problems.  Every time I chased down the problem to root cause it was always that the mirror server listed a TTL for the file that had not expired but the file had been changed upstream on the server out from under the web server that had the longer TTL on the file.05:47
rwpapt-cacher-ng was doing what it was being told to do.  But behind it the file was being changed before the cache time expired and that caused problems.05:48
systemdletethen why did it not cause the SAME problems for all 3 daedalus clients at that same moment?05:49
systemdleteSee, it's a different issue.  I get that you are talking about the cacher talking to its choice of server(s) in the RR, but this is about how it handles requests from its own clients.05:50
systemdletesorry, thought I was still talking to rrq.  I just woke up from a long afternoon nap.  So forgive my brain fuzz here.05:51
systemdletethe cacher seems to suffer from a plethora of ills, including the ones caused by the thing you say.05:52
systemdleteI have no doubt.05:52
rwpI have to defend apt-cacher-ng in that it is doing exactly what it is being told to do.  And it works pretty well for the Debian mirror system.05:54
systemdletemost of the time, it works fine.  It's just that it is inconsistent too often.05:56
systemdleteand, for me at least, the problem is between the cacher and its own clients.05:57
systemdleteI guess it doesn't matter.  No one will ever fix it most likely.05:57
systemdleteOr AI will fix it and make everyone in the world have to learn a whole new way of doing things.05:57
systemdlete(when it isn't telling self-driving cars, planes, and ships to run over pedestrians and other vehicles)05:58
freaxehstill got a broken system here folks09:04
rrqI don't know samba well, but perhaps there is an issue with uid/gid mismatch? or is it username based ... is the thunar user the right username? is there such things as workgroups or something?09:09
rrqdoes browsing work on commandline?09:10
freaxehill find out09:12
freaxehi keep getting acess denied09:13
freaxehtree connect failed: NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED09:13
rrqfrom memory you'd check things first with "nmblookup" (or similar)09:14
rrq(start with man page I guess :)09:15
rrqtry: nmblookup __SAMBA__09:17
rrqsupposedly it lists all smb servers on the local net09:17
rrqand this: nmblookup -S '*'09:18
rrqdoes something similar useful09:18
freaxehyes its  listed the smb servers09:19
rrqight... so there's a command to list the shares of a server I suppose?09:19
rrqthe man page would tell09:19
rrqI suppose, at the server end there's some access credentials setting up as well... is that a linux or something else?09:21
freaxehthe credentials are all already setup, the smb server works 100% within windows09:22
freaxehits just thunar thats messing me around09:22
rrqright.. not making life easy for yorself I see :)09:22
rrqapparently the cred's presented by thunar doesn;t match the cred's expected by the server09:24
rrqdo you have access to error logs on the serve... maybe it would tell something in more detail09:25
gnarfacefreaxeh: did you try it with smbclient?09:25
gnarfacei'm not great with samba, but in my experience, if you can't get it working with smbclient it's not working09:26
gnarfaceif you can get smbclient working then the problem is in the other client09:26
gnarfacei also recall a uid/gid or username mismatch issue once... and that you might have to specify at least workgroup, path, host, username and password before it will work from the linux side, even if windows clients often hide several of those fields from the user09:28
freaxehim learning how to use smbclient now09:29
gnarfacebut the uid/gid issue was something like, i was following some redhat tutorial and nowhere was it mentioned that the smb and linux users were separate, but everything assumes without mentioning it that you're using the same username and password on both or it doesn't work, something like that09:29
gnarfacethat was years ago though09:29
gnarfaceoh! yea, and don't forget that the linux usernames are case-sensitive, don't support whitespace (is that still true?) even though the windows ones might in some contexts,...09:31
gnarface...and the windows ones are treated case-insensitively but case is stored, but and this is the really big but, they'll always be printed with the first character upper-cased even if they're internally stored all lower-case09:32
gnarface(some or all of this info might be out-of-date or vaguely inaccurate but i'm sure it'll at least put you down the right path to fixing it)09:33
* freaxeh head explodes09:33
gnarfaceyea, basically it seems like the windows native client glosses over a bunch of authentication details for you09:34
gnarfacebut if you can figure out how to make smbclient work you'll at least know what each of those fields actually are, including the ones it hides from you09:34
gnarfacethen you should be able to connect everything to it, even macs09:34
gnarfaceoh, and make sure you've got both the smb and cifs modules loaded, at some version the cifs one is suddenly required all the time, not sure when that happens09:36
freaxehcant i just install an ftp server?09:37
freaxehthat would be catering to the complicated beast that is linux though09:41
freaxehi should just install windows on this t430 laptop09:41
gnarfacecertainly there's a sshfs client for windows by now...09:57
gnarfaceno?09:57
freaxehi tried accessing the samba server on a fresh installation of windows 11 and it worked first go10:52
freaxehsomething is seriously wrong with thunar10:52
freaxehhmm now im getting access is denied10:56
freaxehnevermind10:56
rrqsee https://winscp.net/eng/docs/guide_windows_openssh_server11:25
rrqthen you can use sshfs on the client(s)11:25
gnarfacefreaxeh: what fixed it?12:50
freaxehnothing fixed it, its not fixed12:50
gnarfaceoh12:51
freaxehi was mistaken because explorer displayed the directory structure12:51
gnarfacehmm...12:51
freaxehbut when i clicked on a directory it said access denied12:51
gnarfacedid smbclient ever work?12:51
freaxehi've already reset the password for the sambauser account 3 times now12:51
freaxehi dont know, im not smart enough to make that determination12:51
fsmithredcan you access the shares from another system? i.e. are the share settings correct in win?12:52
gnarfaceeh... can you anonymize the data but otherwise show me the smbclient command-line you used? maybe i can sanity check it for you at least12:52
freaxehi can access the shares from this laptop the one im typing to you on now12:52
gnarfacei can't really help with thunar, but i might be able to help with smbclient which might lead you to a solutino12:54
gnarfacesolution*12:54
gnarfaceand is the laptop that works also Win 11?12:55
freaxehyes12:55
freaxehhere is my smb.conf12:55
freaxehhttps://paste.debian.net/hidden/5e93c026/12:55
freaxehhttps://computingforgeeks.com/how-to-configure-samba-share-on-debian/12:56
freaxehi used this tutorial12:56
gnarfacei don't remember much about the smb.conf other than that reading the default one was what lead me to the clue that i have to use a linux user for authenticating the windows clients12:56
gnarfacemy guess is that the issue is still fundamentally a permissions/authentication mistake12:57
gnarfaceprobably something windows is passing behind the scenes so you're not even thinking it needs to be set12:57
gnarface(or thinking it's set to something else than what it actually is)12:57
gnarfacewhat i remember was, i remember having problems getting any samba-only users working13:00
gnarfacesharing linux users' existing home directories worked under defaults though once you get the username case right13:00
gnarfacehaving windows users' names in mixed case with spaces in it would cause it to mismatch on the hidden username field13:01
freaxehthat sounds like a broken feature to me13:01
gnarfaceit hadn't been clear to me windows was even sending the username, i'd forgotten setting one13:01
gnarfacethis is well before Vista though13:02
gnarfacebut please, focus on smbclient, i'm sure the process will leave clues13:02
gnarfacemaybe you had it working?13:02
gnarfacedid it just drop you into a weird shell prompt like >?13:03
gnarfaceor did it give you an error?13:03
freaxehi installed windows 11 on the laptop, youll have to wait for me to reinstall devuan onto it (I'm making a dual boot system) for me to be able to use smbclient13:07
freaxehi'll do it tomorrow13:07
freaxehi need windows 11 for tafe, education13:08
freaxehetc13:08
freaxehand for employment13:08
freaxehi deleted the old sambauser account and created a new one, i give up13:11
freaxehit wont work for me13:11
freaxehill just use sftp13:11
freaxehfor the time being13:11
gnarfacefreaxeh: there's always the live iso...14:19
opvHi all, I have a problem with the install of Daedalus. I want to dual-boot with an existing windows, so I did manual disk setup, set up LVM with an encrypted root and swap, but now the "grub-install dummy" step fails16:02
opvI'm still in the installer. What should I do to remediate this?16:02
gnarfaceencryption is always a complication... you should try it without, at least as a test16:04
opvWorks fine without, but since this is a portable device I need encryption16:04
opvI'd love to automagick it, but that only works standalone, not in combination with an existing windows16:05
gnarfacewell, i do recall there being some package add or config change that might be needed to be done manually but not the key details, sorry16:05
gnarfacei think if you set it up a particular way that might not be necessary, but again i'm sort on details16:05
gnarfacestick around, someone probably has an idea but this is a slow channel16:06
gnarfacethe windows partition might be the key complication, that might help you search for existing information on the fix16:06
opvI doubt. It works fine unencrypted, so the encryption must be the problem16:07
gnarfacewell i think it's both really but not sure16:07
gnarfacethe two in conjunction16:07
gnarfaceis this also UEFI?16:07
opvI got a encrypted LVM with a root partition and a swap16:07
opvYes, it is16:07
gnarfacethe UEFI part might also be relevant16:07
opvEFI partition is existant and unencrypted, and contains the bootloader of the previous unencrypted Devuan16:07
gnarfaceand the windows install is partition 1?16:08
fsmithredno un-encrypted /boot partition?16:08
fsmithredoh16:08
opvPartition3 if we're precise. Part1 is unknown 130ˍMB, Part 2 is ESP 100MB, then comes the NTFS, and then the LVM16:08
gnarfacehmm, maybe part1 is the /boot?16:09
gnarfaceor some windows stuff?16:09
fsmithreddid the installer put anything at all in the efi?16:09
opvIt comes from Windows16:09
fsmithredshould be a debian and/or devuan directory16:09
opvI don't know, I'm still in the installer, trying to figure out how to partition my disks so it'll work16:09
gnarfacewhich partition type are you using? MSDOS or GPT?16:09
opvI don't know... Probably MSDOS since there's a Win1116:09
fsmithredbut possibly gpt since it's using uefi16:10
gnarfacei thought that windows was using gpt starting with win716:10
gnarfaceor at least by win716:10
fsmithrednot sure.16:10
fsmithredI'm using a refurb thinkpad that has windows 10 or 11 and uses msdos16:11
opvhttps://imgur.com/a/Q2X34Lb16:11
opvI ran a Win11 install, an unencrypted Devuan install, and now am trying to run the encrypted Devuan16:11
opvKilled the unencrypted root and swap, set up an LVM, passphrase, and the new root and swap partitions16:11
fsmithredwhat does dummy mean in the grub-install command?16:15
fsmithredI've never used that.16:15
opvI have no idea, it's what the installer's doing16:17
opvIt asks whether I want to install EFI removable media path, which it didn't when doing unencrypted install. Whatever I choose though, grub-install dummy fails16:18
gnarfaceis raid also involved?16:19
fsmithredmaybe drop to console and just run 'grub-install' in chroot16:19
opvno raid16:20
opvfsmithred: how can i return to the installer after that?16:20
gnarfacejust ctrl+alt+f4 then you can ctrl+alt+f1 baxck16:20
fsmithredyou can back up and use the installer menu to get into it and the exit to get out of the console16:21
gnarface*back16:21
fsmithredor what gnarface said16:21
gnarfaceoh, there is a menu option now, isn't there?16:21
opvok, how to mount the crypt partition...16:21
fsmithredin console:  chroot /target grub-install16:21
gnarfaceover my head...16:21
fsmithredif you're at the grub install part of the installer, it's all set to go16:21
opvgrub-install: error: failed to get canonical path of /dev/nvme0n1p216:22
fsmithredyou did the command I typed?16:22
opvyes, i chrooted to /target where the roofs is located, and then did a grub-install16:23
opvthe partition mentioned is mounted under /target/boot/efi16:23
opvthough inside the chroot, fdisk -l returns nothing16:23
fsmithredis the root partition mounted, too?16:23
gnarfaceyou might need to mount some stuff under the chroot first, i think16:24
gnarfacelike /dev, /proc, /sys, /dev/pts?16:24
fsmithredrun 'mount' to see if they are already mounted16:24
fsmithredto /target16:24
opvproc, sysfs, tmpfs, /boot/efi and / are all mounted16:25
opv/boot/efi being the partition grub is complaining about16:26
opv/boot/efi/EFI contains a Boot, Microsoft, and debian folder16:26
fsmithredif you 'chroot /target' you should then be in the root of the installed filesystem16:26
gnarfaceno /dev/?16:27
opvthere is a /dev folder, but it doesn't seem to contain any hdds16:27
opvjust the usual stuff, console, random, shm, etc16:27
opvreminder that i am in the chroot16:27
gnarfaceyea, you would have to mount it while outside the chroot16:27
opvgnarface: sorry, i'm lost. mount /dev?16:28
fsmithredyes16:28
gnarfacei think so. you'd want /dev/ and in some cases also /dev/pts from the running system in there16:28
opvoutside the chroot /dev looks very normal, with all the devices inside16:28
gnarfaceyea, they're different /dev directories right now16:28
opvi'm sorry, how do i mount these devices into the chroot?16:29
fsmithredexit chroot16:29
fsmithredmount -bind /dev /target/dev16:29
gnarfacesome of the files will get created anyway, which is why you still see stuff in /dev/ in the chroot even unmounetd16:29
gnarfaceunmounted*16:29
gnarface(just ctrl+d to exit chroot)16:29
opvfsmithred: heheheh..... mount: invalid option -- 'b'... seems like busybox doesn't support that16:29
gnarfacetry it like this: mount -o bind /dev/ /target/dev/16:29
fsmithred^^^ yeah16:30
opvGreat success, things happen now16:30
gnarfacecool16:30
gnarfacegrub needs to see the drives or it can't do stuff16:30
opvHad to set GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y into /etc/default/grub16:31
opvgbur-install finished, no error reported16:31
opvHowever there is a warning: "EFI variables are not supported on this system"16:31
opvProblem?16:31
fsmithredI've seen that message many times16:31
fsmithredI think you're probably ok16:32
gnarface"<opv> Had to set GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y into /etc/default/grub" <- i think this is the part i was thinking of that i said i couldn't remember specifics about earlier16:32
opvthe installer also properly installs grub now, so JFYI I guess16:32
opvseems like the bind-mount of /dev into the chroot was the thing missing16:32
opvis there a ticket i can/should open somewhere?16:32
gnarfacecould that really be what's going wrong here?16:33
gnarfacefsmithred: ?16:33
opvwhat else have i changed?16:33
opvnothing :DS16:33
opvreboot, moment of truth16:33
fsmithredmaybe16:33
fsmithredthis is daedalus you're installing?16:33
opvYessir16:33
gnarfacei feel like it might be a red herring for something else, but i guess it does look pretty odd that it just worked when run manually16:33
fsmithredok16:33
opvah no, it doesn't work16:33
gnarfaceah, hmm16:33
opvI wasn't shown the grub selection screen, instead I was prompted immediately for the LVM passphrase, and then dropped into a grub shell16:34
fsmithredI've seen grub fail in various circumstances in the past couple years16:34
opvyour continued support is most appreciated in this matter16:34
gnarfacei'm not clear on LVM details; are you still using a fstab? are you still using UUIDS?16:34
opvexiting the grub shell actually brought me to windows... i don't understand16:34
opvgnarface: no clue, i haven't yet managed to boot into the system16:35
fsmithredwe don't fork grub packages, so any bugs will be at bugs.debian.org16:35
gnarfaceopv: i assume when grub exits without booting something it's failing over to your windows native bootloader, which must be second in the boot order16:35
gnarface(i'm not sure it likes that, but i haven't seen windows11 dual booting yet first hand)16:36
fsmithredshould have run update-grub in chroot to generate the boot menu16:36
fsmithredbe daring. Boot from grub command line!16:36
gnarfacehmm, maybe. would the initrd.img need to be updated too?16:36
gnarfaceyea, actually trying to boot from the grub command-line would be a good debugging step..16:37
fsmithredprobably16:37
fsmithredset root=(hd?,gpt?) I don't know the right numbers16:37
gnarfaceopv: maybe while you're still in the chroot run "update-initramfs" once for good measure...16:38
fsmithredlinux /boot/vmlinuz ro root=/dev/mapper/lv-root?16:38
opvI can set root to hd0,gpt416:39
opvwhich is the encrypted LVM16:39
fsmithredI think that's right.16:40
fsmithredand then root=your-logical-partition-for-root16:40
opvI have no autocompletion for /boot tho16:40
fsmithredhm16:40
opvls just consistently shows me the disks16:40
gnarfacesome insmod first?16:41
fsmithredmaybe16:41
opvi'm sorry, i'm really not familiar with the grubshell16:41
opvinsmod what16:41
opvargument expected16:42
opvand no --help ofc16:42
gnarfaceyea i am just guessing16:42
gnarfacemaybe you gotta load some lvm or crypt mod first16:42
fsmithredI'll look at some grub modules...16:42
gnarfaceany working grub menu entry should work as a good example...16:43
opvI'm looking at a Debian forum post, but it doesn't show what I see16:43
opvinsmod lvm, and then it's supposed to show the lvm partitions, but it doesnt16:43
opv"Once I load the GRUB LVM module, I can see the logical volume within the LVM as well."16:44
opvnot here, even though I was prompted by the console to unlock passphrase16:44
fsmithredis this install complete except for the bootloader?16:44
gnarfacemaybe you need some other module too?16:44
opvfsmithred: confirmed16:45
fsmithredcrypto lvm luks efi_gop efi_uga16:45
fsmithredmaybe reboot and go into the installer rescue mode and let that mount your lvm16:45
fsmithredit'll even assemble raid if you have it16:46
opvtrying to follow a SO post, but cryptomount -a fails to recognize the passphrase16:46
fsmithredand there should be a reinstall bootloader option16:46
opveven though it was correctly recognized when entering the grub shell16:46
opvcan't be the american layout, there are no differences there16:46
opvI don't understand... when entering the grub shell, it accepts the passphrase, but inside the shell it doesn't anymore16:51
opvI'm going to try and boot a debian livecd, chroot back into the fs and reinstall grub16:53
gnarfacethere is a devuan livecd16:54
opvyeah but i already have this one flashed to a drive :D16:55
opvand as someone mentioned earlier it should make no difference with regards to grub16:55
opvgrub-install succeeded in the livedisk, though the os-prober failed17:11
opvthe behavior is still the same though17:11
fsmithredos-prober is disabled by default17:23
fsmithredenable it in /etc/default/grub and then run update-grub again17:24
fsmithredmaybe run efibootmgr to check the boot order, too17:24
user38768768is this distro still is regulary develped and updated ? i want to switch from debian17:49
fsmithredyes, we are currently working on excalibur/trixie (Testing)17:50
fsmithreddaedalus is stable relrase17:51
user38768768ok i try it out, thanks17:51
fsmithredhttps://www.devuan.org/os/install17:52
user38768768ok17:54

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!