| fsmithred | ping gnarface - Do you know anything about the package nvidia-suspend-common? It provides the .service files mentioned in this post: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6860 | 11:58 |
|---|---|---|
| fsmithred | Do they need to find someone to fork that package? | 11:59 |
| freem | Hi. I am *really* tired of urxvt's paranoia of copy/paste, this is a very annoying anti-feature when one works primarily with terminals. Does anyone know how to disable the stupid warning about copying more than one line? | 12:01 |
| freem | yes, I *do* dare trust copying multilines from one of terminals to another, and I even *dare* to do that inside a text editor! This kind of check have nothing to do in a terminal emulator. | 12:02 |
| freem | (it's not the 1st time my patience it reaching it's limits, but this time if I don't find a way I think I'll just downgrade urxvt and call it a day, instead of suffering paternalism from maintainers) | 12:03 |
| freem | (do that in terminals for gnome, cinnamon or kde, sure, since those environments users are more likely to use terminals rarely, but for a standalone one, which is likely to be used by people who don't use file explorers...) | 12:04 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: the existence of that package is news to me, the problem with nvidia suspend/resume is not. if it actually fixes that, it would probably be worth forking. | 12:25 |
| gnarface | i just leave them running | 12:25 |
| gnarface | i do recall at some point, someone locating some nvidia modified versions of the relevant acpid scripts somewhere in /usr/share/doc, but then couldn't find them again when i went looking | 12:26 |
| Xenguy | freem, Just use another terminal I suppose; definitely sounds annoying | 12:27 |
| freem | for now I downgraded it. It is worrying that this is *not* the only program I keep on previous stable, though. | 12:28 |
| Xenguy | I am using 'MATE terminal' here apparently; I like it, it works | 12:28 |
| freem | I'd rather avoid anything requiring gtk dependency when I have the choice :) | 12:28 |
| freem | the day I will no longer have any gtk lib installed on my system, I'll probably do a little celebration | 12:29 |
| Xenguy | Or maybe write the maintainer and let them know you think the anti-feature sucks? I actually emailed the maintainer of paste.debian.net years ago and pleaded with them to implement https on their (then) http page, and lo and behold, they did | 12:30 |
| freem | indeed | 12:31 |
| freem | but that stuff was added purposefully in order to protect the users from their stupidity, because they're unable to know that the web is a dangerous place, even if they picked a terminal emulator themselves, which is not a tool a non advanced user would care about | 12:32 |
| freem | I'm pretty sure there's some obscure way to disable the feature... | 12:32 |
| freem | (I obviously prefer programs with sane defaults, but hey) | 12:32 |
| Xenguy | One would think there must be an option to choose | 12:33 |
| freem | oh, yes | 12:33 |
| freem | I suppose too | 12:33 |
| freem | the question is: what might it be? | 12:34 |
| freem | man-page does not mentions stuff, ofc, it would be too easy | 12:34 |
| freem | maybe you're right and I should just search another emulator. | 12:34 |
| freem | sounds the easier | 12:34 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: (it affects a lot more than firefox, i was even seeing desktop icon corruptions in kde, weird stuff that suggested the ram state was getting corrupted) | 12:35 |
| gnarface | it wouldn't be immediately or all the time, but it would be often enough to ruin the point | 12:35 |
| Xenguy | It's a shame, as urxvt is one of the older more venerable terminals too | 12:35 |
| freem | yes, but enshittification hits everywhere | 12:36 |
| freem | software rots, and do that faster when developpers start considering their users are dumb | 12:36 |
| Xenguy | Even linux has it's enshit, it's called systemd : -) | 12:36 |
| Xenguy | I'm sure it's not the only example | 12:37 |
| freem | remains to be seen if that is a urxvt feature or a debian one though | 12:37 |
| freem | the most notable example is gtk | 12:37 |
| freem | it's much more obvious than systemd | 12:37 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, all things GNOME I suppose, pity | 12:37 |
| freem | gtk2: no problem, neat stuff. gtk3: starts to waste your screens space, adds shitload of useless deps, config files are a mess. gtk4: man, your 10yo screen still work? Junk it, you need that one which cost 1K€ | 12:38 |
| Xenguy | Strange progression (regression?) indeed | 12:39 |
| freem | well, gtk3 is when gnome took over control of the gimp toolkit | 12:41 |
| freem | it's as simple as that. And considering the ego of those people... | 12:41 |
| fsmithred | gnarface, thanks. | 12:42 |
| freem | so now I'm trying to use qt-based only softwares. It's not exactly lightweight, but there is a huge advantage with qt, which will prevent it to be too bad ever: there are people *paid* to sell licences of this | 12:42 |
| freem | qt is used everywhere, including in embedded devices, so they similarly can't afford to have default buttons which are spaced by 2cm^W 20pixels | 12:42 |
| freem | ironically, qt might resist the shit more *because* it's dual-licenced for money | 12:43 |
| freem | anyway, I liked urxvt for it's carefulness about system resources, and notably when using urxvtd. I don't know if other terminal emulators provide that kind of stuff | 12:44 |
| freem | I'll search in aptitude, I guess | 12:45 |
| freem | after quick sorting, only stterm remains... and I am *not* fond of suckless idea that configuration is done at compilation time. Guess I might have to loosen my requirements :) | 12:55 |
| freem | pretty sure I tried that one back in days, and if I no longer use it there must be a reason | 12:56 |
| fsmithred | freem, thanks for asking the question. I never bothered to check if there's a way to disable it, and sure enough there is a way in xfce terminal. | 12:57 |
| fsmithred | uncheck the box | 12:57 |
| fsmithred | "Show unsafe paste dialog" | 12:57 |
| freem | well, yes, for a terminal emulator using gtk or, overall, a GUI, I would expect a checkbox to be around | 12:57 |
| freem | it's stupid to call that unsafe | 12:57 |
| freem | or is the stuff one writes in a terminal to paste on another one unsafe, now? | 12:58 |
| fsmithred | maybe the qt terminal will do it. I can check in a few seconds. I have lxqt running on another machine. | 12:58 |
| freem | hm... I guess I can search the interweb for a way to disable that crap | 12:58 |
| freem | in the past, there were several rxvt builds in debian, including some *without* the perl/python/whatever scripting support. Those were good days. | 12:59 |
| fsmithred | qterminal calls it something else and it's turned off by default | 13:00 |
| fsmithred | xterm gives no warning | 13:02 |
| freem | Changes:- enable confirm-paste extension by default, can be disabled by e.g. | 13:04 |
| freem | Changes: URxvt.perl-ext: -confirm-paste | 13:04 |
| freem | well, thanks apt-get source | 13:04 |
| freem | I wish debian would provide a *real* way to know which changes happened between 2 major versions, or between 2 software versions, but debian's changelogs are useless | 13:05 |
| freem | which is actually one of the reasons I want to try keeping my system minimal: less bad surprises, easier to find the offending change, and to revert it myself if necessary | 13:05 |
| freem | as I suspected, this is a perl extension. | 13:06 |
| freem | which I didn't used in the past, since I always prefered the light versions... less dependences, less bad surprises. | 13:07 |
| freem | (and more resources for the tasks I really want my computer to do, too) | 13:07 |
| freem | that line does not says, though, *where* to put that damn option | 13:09 |
| freem | fuck this, I don't *need* those extensions and they're a pain, so I'll just rebuild the stuff without support for them | 13:10 |
| freem | I do wonder about many packages I'll end up maintaining patches for in few years though | 13:11 |
| fsmithred | freem, maybe that line goes in src/perl/matcher near line 79 which is similar. That is just a guess. | 13:25 |
| freem | I'll just rebuild the software without the features I don't need, which will help considering one of them is actually hurting me | 13:32 |
| freem | nothing to loose. | 13:33 |
| Xenguy | Freedom's just another word for... | 13:35 |
| brabo | ugh what happened wrt urxvt? | 13:55 |
| freem | feature creep. | 13:55 |
| brabo | i was out of the game for a bit and see this conv wall now | 13:55 |
| freem | some people consider it's unsafe to paste more than one line, is all | 13:55 |
| brabo | tl;dr? | 13:55 |
| brabo | agh | 13:55 |
| freem | The intent is likely to protect dummies against copying stuff from interweb and pasting it, executing malevolent code | 13:56 |
| brabo | i do not consider urxvt a consumer tool but a power user tool, a power user who knows what they are doing | 13:56 |
| freem | same. This is why I am angry at this bullshit. | 13:56 |
| brabo | i feel ya | 13:57 |
| freem | take a graphical terminal from a DE, I would understand, as those *are* used by beginners | 13:57 |
| brabo | on same page methinks, without having read into this topic | 13:57 |
| freem | but urxvt? One needs to install it on purpose, and normal users don't give a damn about terminals, they even dislike them | 13:57 |
| brabo | so uhm, what is the state/usability of devuan these days? | 13:57 |
| brabo | freem: ack. not anyone uses setups like fluxbox and urxvt | 13:58 |
| freem | if you need some packages from a big DE and refuse systemd, you need devuan. But you'll lack debugsyms for some packages, so I ended up frankebianing | 13:58 |
| brabo | i do not need debugsyms | 13:59 |
| freem | because I need some of those neat KDE debugging tools | 13:59 |
| brabo | i was devuan from day 1 but switched back due to lag back then | 13:59 |
| freem | yes, I understand this is not a normal use... not everyone is a developper. | 13:59 |
| brabo | freem: i do not luckily | 13:59 |
| brabo | freem: ack | 13:59 |
| freem | but it's still a shame to not support developpers needs. | 13:59 |
| brabo | each their own, that is what is nice about software freedom/modularity/orthogonality | 14:00 |
| freem | yep | 14:00 |
| brabo | freem: agreed | 14:00 |
| freem | I only wish kcachegrind, hotspot and massif-visualizer would have non-KDE alternatives, but I don't know any | 14:00 |
| brabo | you cannot accodomate to all and that is ok, the right tool for the right job in the right hands | 14:00 |
| freem | for all my other stuff, I never need any of those fancy graphical dev tools | 14:01 |
| freem | but... hunting performance problems without graphs? it's doable, but painful, especially for valgrind's massif output which can't stick on a single screen | 14:01 |
| brabo | freem: those tools i did not know before but do sound interesting and yes, if they would have no such dep i would be game | 14:02 |
| freem | it's way too wide. And it's were graphs comes in play to make things easier, and non-monospace font *also* helps with that | 14:02 |
| brabo | i am not against graphical things | 14:02 |
| freem | I also remember Kdevelop when I was young, it was a neat IDE | 14:02 |
| brabo | but there is an expression: as kids we learn through images, as we grow up we learn to read and write | 14:03 |
| freem | KDE is really the best DE available, especially for developpers, it have all the tooling you need. | 14:03 |
| freem | sure | 14:03 |
| freem | I'm waiting for someone to create a 3D model nicely textured with just a text interface | 14:03 |
| freem | both graphics and texts have their uses, it's stupid to restrain oneself to a single of those | 14:04 |
| brabo | agreed | 14:04 |
| freem | CLI, TUI and GUI do not conflict, they each have their strengths and weaknesses | 14:04 |
| brabo | mix and mingle, be carefull what to use for what purpose | 14:04 |
| freem | I do mostly CLI, but when it comes to editing text or installing packages, I prefer TUI. When I draw stuff for my 3D printer, a GUI is mandatory. | 14:05 |
| freem | if someone wants to try convincing me of other ways, please do so, I'm never against a good laugh | 14:05 |
| brabo | i like fluxbox myself, it is some middle ground | 14:06 |
| freem | one of the thing is, a GUI does not have to be anti-keyboard | 14:06 |
| freem | i3+urxvt+vim is my IDE | 14:06 |
| brabo | then mostly urxvt terminals and some more basic gui programs | 14:06 |
| freem | ah, and cgdb, too. Sadly, could not find a less bad gdb frontend, linux's debuggers suck | 14:06 |
| brabo | i did start liking graphical editors though | 14:06 |
| brabo | was doing some sublime text, now trying atom | 14:07 |
| brabo | vim with cspaces plugin was nice as well though | 14:07 |
| freem | I prefer to keep the resources for the programs I debug, instead of running more chromium instances | 14:07 |
| rrq | could you please move chit-chat to #devuan-offtopic | 14:08 |
| freem | sure | 14:08 |
| brabo | rrq: ack | 14:08 |
| fsmithred | brabo, lag on packages ranges from 30 minutes to a few hours, depending on how often the mirror you hit updates. Lag on releases is a couple months now. I think it's usable (not for production) any time after debian freezes their testing suite. | 14:11 |
| brabo | fsmithred: thanks for the update! a whole lot better than years ago :D this means that this time i will likely switch for good. also coming out of a bad period, but i cn contribute some in the future | 14:29 |
| brabo | *i can contribute | 14:29 |
| drizzt | freem: gvim :) | 16:01 |
| drizzt | A gui, but still all the vim keyboard power :) | 16:01 |
| drizzt | but honestly, I never understood what a "gui" could add to vim or do better than vim | 16:02 |
| drizzt | well, not VIM alone, but a gui is not only the editor it's the editor + other tools, and you can do the same (and much much more) with vim + other tools | 16:03 |
| freem | the main point of using an editor in a terminal is that I can easily swap between shell, cgdb and editor. using gvim would take away this advantage, for no benefit at all. | 16:07 |
| joerg | please take it to #devuan-offtopic | 18:01 |
| HackphiL | hi here and there | 22:31 |
| HackphiL | I'm looking for an url to dld iso Devuan . | 22:32 |
| golinux | HackphiL: Currently there are no installer isos to dld as per: | 22:42 |
| golinux | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_excalibur/installer-iso/WhereAreTheISOs_current_status.txt | 22:42 |
| golinux | That's for testing. | 22:43 |
| golinux | Other isos are here: https://files.devuan.org/ | 22:44 |
| HackphiL | which one is the latest stable? | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | daedalus is stable | 23:26 |
| drizzt | ceres is stable if you do not auto-update every day =) | 23:32 |
| drizzt | but you need a backup when you want to update if you want to be extra safe (though there are very little problems and most get fixed within a few days at most | 23:33 |
| drizzt | anyway, not having a backup is just insane | 23:34 |
| fsmithred | ok, daedalus is Stable, not just stable. | 23:34 |
| fsmithred | in debian terminology, stable means major versions of programs don't change. Just bugfixes and security patches. | 23:35 |
| freem | or one can just rely on /var/cache/apt/archives? | 23:36 |
| freem | if an update fails, you can drop in /bin/sh from the bootloader, and dpkg stuff directly | 23:36 |
| drizzt | fsmithred: yep | 23:36 |
| freem | since I am a fool who don't use backups, I did relied on such kind of hacks :) | 23:37 |
| freem | I don't have important data, and I love toying with that kind of stuff | 23:37 |
| freem | OTOH this weirdness allowed me to install buggy packages from 3rd party sources and fix my system still | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | there's also dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections to create and use a list of your installed packages. | 23:38 |
| freem | and to send them accurate info about the problem and the fix | 23:38 |
| freem | I have to say, /var/lib/dpkg/* stuff is very easy to manipulate | 23:38 |
| drizzt | freem: from my point of view, it's most of the time easier to update from time to time in ceres/sid than once every two years from "Stable" to "stable", which in fact could lead to many more incompatibilities or upgrade problems | 23:39 |
| freem | this is all very human readable, think yaml, except *actually* readable | 23:39 |
| freem | drizzt: when I was younger, I did moved from old stable to stable to testing to unstable+sid to stable back | 23:39 |
| freem | and in the mid-time, got several of those at the same time | 23:40 |
| freem | I can't say I master debian, but I feel comfy :) | 23:40 |
| freem | I broke my system dozens of times by toying with it as root, which is something one should not do | 23:40 |
| freem | and repaired it. | 23:40 |
| freem | this allowed me to get a decent understanding, and to move to runit before it was integrated correctly in either the, then birthing, devuan, and debian | 23:41 |
| freem | I am not skilled, but I think I can give a little hand for few situations | 23:42 |
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