| gnarface | could be, but just statistically speaking i'm still suspecting it's fundamentally a case of missing udev rules | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | missing or incomplete | 00:00 |
| gnarface | and possibly formerly complete but deleted wrongfully | 00:01 |
| gnarface | the steam controller can show up as a keyboard, mouse, uinput device, and an array of virtual gamepads and raw input devices all at once, but only if you have all the right udev rules | 00:03 |
| gnarface | (and kernel modules, and a userspace program to trigger them, in some cases) | 00:04 |
| gnarface | the ones that really threw me off were the virtual ones it identifies as microsoft x-box 360 gamepads, not a whif of valve or steam branding anywhere on them | 00:07 |
| gnarface | but i guess that was necessary for compatibility | 00:08 |
| gnarface | and i had to manually set ENV{ID_INPUT_JOYSTICK}="1" on those, for... something to see them right, i forget what | 00:10 |
| onefang | In the end, the only real reason I was trying to get this sorted is so I can put the joystick back in storage, and use the SpaceMouse for games. It's not a big desk, there's 6 input devices on it, and I'd like to remove two of them. Looks like most of the games that can use a joystick couldn't use a proper NDOF one anyway, which is the real advantage of the SpaceMouse over a joystick. | 00:12 |
| onefang | Turning out WAY too complicated for this simple goal. lol | 00:13 |
| gnarface | i sympathize with the dismay at udev rules | 00:13 |
| gnarface | but conceptualizing the mess is the biggest hurdle | 00:13 |
| gnarface | once you get the right notions in your head, making the rules is pretty simple | 00:14 |
| gnarface | i'm confident what you're trying to do is possible | 00:14 |
| onefang | Then again, might turn out to NOT be a udev problem. And the only other application where SpaceMouse is vaguely important to me is OpenSim viewers, where I added SpaceMouse Pro support myself long ago. But the OpenSim stuff is currently a whole other hell lin a hand basket trying to get it to run on Daedulas, so many other annoyances to get through before I can tackle that. At least then I can debug thi | 00:17 |
| onefang | ngs easier from the top down. | 00:17 |
| onefang | One of these days one of these directions will yield something useful. That day isn't today. lol | 00:18 |
| gnarface | yea, i'm confident that what you're trying to do is possible, but i'm not confident that we wouldn't have been poking at it for a couple more hours to figure it out | 00:19 |
| gnarface | it took me weeks to catch the steam controller in the act of spawning all these mystery virtual devices that different games expected and adjusting the udev rules so they show up with the right permissions | 00:19 |
| gnarface | and i'm still not confident i've actually caught them all, just all the ones that the games i have are looking for... | 00:20 |
| onefang | And I'm starting from a "know nothing about udev" position. I suspect diving deep into the spacenavd source code might be a better use of my time. There IS joystick stuff in there I have already stumbled across by accident, though it goes the other way, letting you use an ordinary joystick for SpaceMouse compatible applications. | 00:22 |
| gnarface | i suspect that this "spacenavd" you mention might be analogous to the Steam client itself in your case, and might need to be running, (with the space mouse connected and on) for you to be able to successfully test any new udev rules on it | 00:26 |
| onefang | Coz so far udev has "just worked" for me. Now that I have seen what a mess it is, I'd like to keep "just ignoring it". B-) | 00:26 |
| gnarface | (there's some open source steam controller support i haven't looked into, but critically it also does contain a userspace component that has to be running for the device to have full functionality) | 00:27 |
| onefang | spacenavd is the open source version of the driver you would normally download from 3Dconnexion. Plus, it's in the Devuan / Debian repos. | 00:28 |
| onefang | Works fine for Blender and FreeCAD, which know how to use it directly, or at least know how to use the 3Dconnexion protocol. | 00:29 |
| gnarface | most likely that's just because they're looking for something in /dev/ that your default udev rules already were exposing properly | 00:29 |
| gnarface | and note that thing might not even be something in /dev/input/!!! | 00:30 |
| onefang | WIthout spacenavd runnig, those programs can't use the SpaceMouse. | 00:30 |
| gnarface | fucking Dirt Rally needed me to add /dev/hidraw* rules | 00:30 |
| gnarface | which i'm told is very bad behavior, but apparently nobody told the Dirt Rally devs that... | 00:30 |
| onefang | Dirty dirty Dirt Rally devs. | 00:31 |
| gnarface | yea, so if spacenavd needs to be running, then chances are it's also triggering the spacemouse to spawn some virtual devices on the fly, similar to how the steam controller spawns virtual xbox 360 controllers | 00:31 |
| gnarface | once you know that has to be happening, it's much easier to catch it in the act by just looking in /dev/ for fresh files | 00:32 |
| onefang | Which is one reason a deep dive into it's source code might be useful. | 00:32 |
| gnarface | yea, i can't refute that, but comparatively that seems like a deeper rabbit hole to me | 00:32 |
| onefang | The other reason might be I stumble across a "joystick = true" option that solves all the problems. lol | 00:33 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure but i think that can be set in the udev rules | 00:33 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure that's the same flag i was setting this for: ENV{ID_INPUT_JOYSTICK}="1" | 00:33 |
| gnarface | but it might be | 00:33 |
| gnarface | though if that's the case most likely it can be done in either place | 00:34 |
| gnarface | (note that in udev rules, "=" is an assignment and "==" is an equality test, just like in many other languages) | 00:35 |
| onefang | Meh, spacenavd is source code in a language I'm familiar with. During one job interview I was handed a phone book sized printout of their source code, in a language I wasn't familiar with. I spotted a bug just idly thumbing through it. Tackling random source code seems easier to me. B-) | 00:35 |
| gnarface | right on | 00:36 |
| * joerg translates spacenavd source to whitespace for onefang ;-) | 01:55 | |
| adhoc | what is a space mouse ? | 01:59 |
| rwp | adhoc, https://3dconnexion.com/us/spacemouse/ | 02:03 |
| adhoc | i see, so the question is "why?" and do their drivers work on linux ? | 02:04 |
| adhoc | oh i have seen these before, the compact versions | 02:05 |
| gnarface | the answer is yes, with the caveat that this has come up in discussion because we seem to have an incident of regression of legacy js support for them in current stable | 02:06 |
| adhoc | js support? | 02:07 |
| adhoc | javascript? | 02:07 |
| gnarface | joystick | 02:07 |
| adhoc | oh | 02:07 |
| * adhoc thinks about the last time a joystick was plugged into a puter... | 02:07 | |
| adhoc | would have been in the soundblaster16 next to a pair of voodoo2's | 02:08 |
| gnarface | the kernel joystick interface has changed to newer protocols, but some older software is still hardwired to the old protocol | 02:08 |
| adhoc | ah ok | 02:08 |
| onefang | joerg: Think I would rather learn whitespace (yes I had heard of it) as my 101st programming language, than udev rules. lol | 02:54 |
| onefang | Says the man with BrainFuck on his resume. | 02:55 |
| golinux | Is the really a Devuan support issue? | 02:59 |
| devuanconsumer | so I switched from kernel 6.1.0-25-amd64 to 6.0.0 and I haven't had any restarts in 14 hours. Before the 3 desktops were restarting after 6 to 8 hours. Will keep my fingers crossed | 17:36 |
| devuanconsumer | I usually dust out all my desktops every 6 months | 17:37 |
| freaxeh | i had a similar issue on an old phenom ii system, turned out to be the motherboard not the ram at fault | 17:37 |
| freaxeh | old as in having ddr2 ram | 17:37 |
| freaxeh | and being 14+ years old | 17:37 |
| freaxeh | dont know if that helps | 17:38 |
| devuanconsumer | yeah the suspects for me are kernels, motherboard, psu, ram, bios settings (which I already reset to defaults) | 17:38 |
| devuanconsumer | I also updated the bios on those 3 desktops and it didn't help. I only change one thing at a time so nail down the issue | 17:38 |
| devuanconsumer | i only change one thing at a time after every random restart* | 17:39 |
| freaxeh | yeah i do the same | 17:39 |
| freaxeh | i ended up replacing the motherboard and ram at the same time tho and upgrading to ddr3 | 17:40 |
| devuanconsumer | it probably was the motherboard in your case because of the age | 17:41 |
| freaxeh | nope, replaced it with a similar age motherboard, i only ever use gigabyte mobos with solid state capacitors, so theres that | 17:42 |
| devuanconsumer | i don't think it's the power supply unit because in the past I've experienced weird noises coming from it and the system completely shut down every time | 17:42 |
| freaxeh | what brand psu is it? I only ever use seasonic brand | 17:43 |
| devuanconsumer | corsair | 17:43 |
| freaxeh | corsair should be fine i've used those before | 17:43 |
| freaxeh | you sure rats didn't get in and gnaw at the power cabling? i've had that happen too | 17:44 |
| devuanconsumer | i like corsair ram and psu's but for motherboards i like gigabyte | 17:44 |
| devuanconsumer | no | 17:44 |
| devuanconsumer | I always revise my systems every 6 months after i dust them | 17:44 |
| freaxeh | i've had a faulty brand new gigabyte mobo die on me, am4 it was | 17:45 |
| freaxeh | wouldn't respond to the power switch | 17:45 |
| freaxeh | i still use gigabyte everywhere | 17:46 |
| freaxeh | sometimes shit just happens | 17:46 |
| devuanconsumer | yep | 17:47 |
| devuanconsumer | it's easy to get a failing unit after thousands are produced | 17:47 |
| freaxeh | yep | 17:47 |
| freaxeh | 01:48:22 up 13 days, 23:34, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 | 17:48 |
| freaxeh | thats the uptime for the system in question | 17:48 |
| freaxeh | solid as a rock now, wouldn't get past a day before | 17:50 |
| devuanconsumer | awesome. It's always satisfying to solve an issue but the only regret is the time used lol | 17:51 |
| freaxeh | nods | 17:52 |
| onefang | I'll be out all day doing various things. So no one is allowed to have package mirror problems. At least not the sort I can help with. The sort I can fix tomorrow is fine though. | 23:08 |
| buZz | well, ok | 23:12 |
| buZz | :) | 23:12 |
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