| systemdlete | hmmm. this article seems to suggest I should create the file in sites-available and then enable it (a2ensite) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| systemdlete | I guess that will do. But if anyone here can advise further, please do. | 00:01 |
| fsmithred | yes, sites-available can be enabled. Aren't they just links? | 00:01 |
| systemdlete | the files in sites-enabled are links to the same in sites-available, yes. | 00:02 |
| systemdlete | I think I will follow the advice in the article | 00:03 |
| fsmithred | a2ensite | 00:03 |
| fsmithred | yes | 00:03 |
| systemdlete | fsmithred, ^^^ | 00:03 |
| fsmithred | I think you have to make your own conf file for the virtual host. | 00:05 |
| fsmithred | base it on the default and edit as needed | 00:05 |
| fluffywolf | first time installing daedalus (instead of upgrading to it). that ascii art is way way too obviously generated from an image. I'm drawing art for the next installer. :P | 00:10 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: yes, in apache you symlink from sites-enabled to sites-available, that's the way the docs say to do it | 00:10 |
| gnarface | dvbst: hmm, that sounds older than what i thought you needed for the nvidia open-source ones... | 00:11 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i thought you needed something post 4000 | 00:11 |
| gnarface | (not including the 4000's, but i could be wrong) | 00:11 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: (same thing for the modules) | 00:13 |
| fluffywolf | installer won't scan for wireless networks, even though it detected the hardware correctly | 00:15 |
| fluffywolf | just goes instantly to "Attempting to find an available wireless network failed". | 00:16 |
| rrq | maybe you're using expert mode and skipped the "load components" step? | 00:17 |
| fluffywolf | no, not using expert mode. | 00:18 |
| gnarface | dvbst: anyway, here's your package list for the regular ones: https://paste.debian.net/1324666/, start with 'nvidia-driver-bin' and then fill in the gaps with the rest - if you want multiarch&wine&steam support, you'll need to also install the :i386 flavors of the ones currently suffixed there with :amd64, otherwise, these should be everything | 00:18 |
| gnarface | dvbst: (might actually contain more than everything, dregs from a previous release - ignore anything listed here not in the current daedalus repos) | 00:18 |
| gnarface | dvbst: if you want to try the open ones (and don't say i didn't warn you) then it seems like you would install nvidia-open-kernel-dkms and nvidia-open-kernel-support first, then only install the rest of the things from the list that aren't installed automatically which don't explicitly conflict with those | 00:19 |
| fluffywolf | lsmod shows ath9k is loaded | 00:19 |
| rrq | hmm .. (I haven't tested installing wireless since many years ago) | 00:20 |
| gnarface | dvbst: (note i haven't tried that here though, my last nvidia purchase was a 1060) | 00:20 |
| fluffywolf | I don't seem to have enough utilities available to diagnose wifi issues? | 00:20 |
| fluffywolf | vt4 shows some stuff about wlan0, but nothing that looks like a cause, only symptoms. | 00:21 |
| rrq | there's iw tools in vt2? | 00:21 |
| fluffywolf | no | 00:22 |
| gnarface | dvbst: note, you will need the kernel build deps and the linux-headers-* package corresponding to your current linux-image-* package installed first for this to work, and you will need to wait for potentially a long time while it compiles a kernel module with dkms - assuming that actually completes successfully you just add "nomodeset" to your kernel command-line (if you haven't already) then reboot. you might need | 00:22 |
| gnarface | to blacklist the nouveau module manually too, but the packages might be smart enough to do that for yo now | 00:22 |
| gnarface | hopefully i remembered everything, let me know what happens... | 00:23 |
| fluffywolf | I can manually enter a ssid, but it's long and hard to type and I'll have to check this box to get it. lol. trying that now... | 00:23 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: daedalus 5.0.1 netinstall ? | 00:23 |
| fluffywolf | yes | 00:23 |
| dvbst | gnarface: the 20, 30 and 40 series cards are supported and will have the open source ones, and nvidia actually stated that they want users to move from the proprietary ones to the open ones. do you want me to link the article? | 00:24 |
| gnarface | dvbst: no, i saw it too, i just don't trust their judgment, i know they don't give a shit if their users are tricked into beta testing their untested crap | 00:24 |
| fluffywolf | not connecting even with manually entered ssid. vt4 is repeating a message of which the relevant part may be wpa_state=INTERFACE_DISABLED | 00:25 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i leave my computers on here, so i know they don't test stuff in-house as well as i do, or as well as their competitors do | 00:25 |
| fluffywolf | (whole screenfull of those) | 00:25 |
| gnarface | dvbst: at question also, is whether the version in current debian stable is updated completely to the version inferred by that article (i haven't checked, but you should first, if you want to try them) | 00:26 |
| rrq | hmm the CD has wireless-tools*.deb ... but I'm unsure how to install into the installer | 00:27 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i actually have an open question about their "open-source" drivers which i assume the answer to is no, but might affect the rest of your install procedure; their new "open source" driver, it doesn't use MESA finally, does it? | 00:27 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you see, everyone else is using MESA for opengl, whereas nvidia has traditionally had their own proprietary opengl implementation to go along with their proprietary drivers. if they're actually using mesa now that might bode well for the long term (but poorly for the short term) | 00:29 |
| rrq | furrywolf: you can unpack the wireless-ttols deb using ar, xzcat and tar | 00:32 |
| fluffywolf | I don't even have dpkg... | 00:33 |
| rrq | long pathname: DEB=/cdrom/pool/DEBIAN/main/w/wireless-tools/wireless-tools_30\~pre9-14_amd64.deb | 00:34 |
| rrq | ar p $DEB | xzcat | tar x -f - -C / | 00:35 |
| rrq | no | 00:35 |
| rrq | ar p $DEB data.tar.xz | xzcat | tar x -f - -C / | 00:35 |
| fluffywolf | ar has dumped it into the current directory | 00:35 |
| rrq | ok | 00:35 |
| * fluffywolf cats it to xzcat and tar | 00:36 | |
| fluffywolf | no -f | 00:36 |
| fluffywolf | iwlist shows the essid I entered, not associated. | 00:37 |
| fluffywolf | iwconfig, I mean | 00:37 |
| fluffywolf | iwlist won't scan, says interface is down | 00:37 |
| fluffywolf | now which package has ifup... lol | 00:37 |
| rrq | ip link set dev wlan0 up | 00:37 |
| freem | apt-file search bin/ifup | 00:38 |
| * fluffywolf has never used ip, needs to learn | 00:38 | |
| freem | % apt-file search bin/ifup | 00:38 |
| freem | ifupdown: /sbin/ifup | 00:38 |
| freem | ifupdown-ng: /sbin/ifup | 00:38 |
| freem | ifupdown-ng: /sbin/ifupdown | 00:38 |
| freem | ifupdown2: /sbin/ifup | 00:38 |
| freem | netscript-2.4: /sbin/ifup | 00:38 |
| freem | rear: /usr/share/rear/skel/default/bin/ifup | 00:39 |
| freem | apt-file is a really useful tool | 00:39 |
| fluffywolf | operation not possible due to rf-kill | 00:39 |
| fluffywolf | freem: please don't do that. | 00:39 |
| freem | you mean pasting more than 5 lines? | 00:39 |
| fluffywolf | yes | 00:40 |
| fluffywolf | actually, no. I mean more than 1 lines. :P | 00:40 |
| rrq | find /cdrom -name rfkill\* | 00:40 |
| freem | I usually use a pastebin for longer stuff, but it feels ok to me to paste less than 10 :) but I'll remember that even 5 is too much here | 00:40 |
| fluffywolf | the laptop has a fn combo for wifi; I believe it is on. at least, the light is on. | 00:40 |
| fluffywolf | the combo makes things appear in my terminal, so it seems to be expecting software to handle it. | 00:41 |
| freem | IIRC you have 2 modes of rfkill, software and hardware | 00:41 |
| dvbst | gnarface: steam takes care of the i386 stuff for me so i dont need to do anything myself. nvidia says to install nvidia-kernel-source-open first, and the bin ones you mentioned in the link are now obsolete i think. yes i always install the headers, the run file doesnt want to start if its missing those, so i know about it. my bet would be that the header files are a dependency of the nvidia-kernel-source-open, but i dont know. and no, i dont need to wait | 00:41 |
| dvbst | long for it to complie, its really snappy, the whole thing takes less than 10 minutes. i dont mind being a tester of their stuff, i never had issues with it, and its not like if i do happen to have issues its a big deal, all my important stuff are files, not running processes that would cause damage if they stopped running, so its not really a big deal if my pc falls apart randomly if that doesnt do anything to my files. as far as i know there is only one | 00:41 |
| dvbst | version of the open drivers now, its still a new thing, it went out like this month i think. | 00:41 |
| fluffywolf | why is one package saying /sbin and the other /usr/sbin? I thought they got merged already? lol | 00:43 |
| freem | btw, what's the point of the 2 other "ifupdown" packages? | 00:43 |
| freem | ifupdown2 written in python is the one which triggers me the most | 00:43 |
| fluffywolf | rfkill has missing deps, won't run. manually walking dep tree now... | 00:44 |
| * freem does not uses ifup or ifdown anymore anyway | 00:45 | |
| fluffywolf | grr, that means I have to manually copy libs and attempt to make the linker find them | 00:45 |
| fluffywolf | this is not easy with busybox. | 00:45 |
| rrq | only needs libsmartc* | 00:45 |
| * fluffywolf LD_PRELOADS them | 00:46 | |
| fluffywolf | hard blocked: yes | 00:46 |
| fluffywolf | unblock 0 does not change it | 00:47 |
| gnarface | dvbst: so, one critical thing about steam's bundled :i386 support is that it's broken on Debian fundamentally, and always has been. this is one of the primary things the steam installer from the repo fixes for you that the one from their website doesn't. (and it doesn't do a complete job all the time, sometimes you still have to manually force it to use a host library instead of its bundled one to get something working, | 00:47 |
| gnarface | but it depends on the game. they don't all always have problems) | 00:47 |
| rrq | hard blocked means a physical switch | 00:47 |
| gnarface | dvbst: anyway, i've told you what you needed to know. do what you will with that info, but don't say i didn't warn you. (and i recommend making a backup of the install first, if you can) | 00:48 |
| fluffywolf | it doesn't have a physical switch. it has a button on the keyboard, and the light is on. and that buttons sends keycodes, doesn't turn the light off. | 00:48 |
| dvbst | gnarface: and about mesa, i cant find anything, and i dont really know what to look for because i dont know anything about this | 00:48 |
| gnarface | dvbst: just assume it's no for now. if you do end up needing mesa i'll need to give you a different package list though. | 00:48 |
| gnarface | and fyi, to be clear, the kernel build deps and the linux-header-* packages are a direct requirement for dkms, which it seems like nvidia is using for both flavors of their driver. if it passes so fast you don't see it building that just means you have ... a really fast cpu | 00:51 |
| gnarface | but the driver install process can derail if there's a compile-time issue during that process, just something to be aware of | 00:51 |
| fluffywolf | ok, found a user manual that says the light being on means they're disabled. lolwtf? but it also says they default to on. | 00:51 |
| fluffywolf | want to check bios settings, but that'll mean losing all my unpacking... | 00:52 |
| dvbst | gnarface: tell me step by step how to get steam from the repo the correct way, and then ill do it | 00:54 |
| fluffywolf | nothing in bios setup about wifi config whatsoever | 00:55 |
| dvbst | but i think i want to do it once the system is set up and working, so not now | 00:55 |
| dvbst | and no i cant really make another backup, i used the last gigabytes of space that i have on my drives, i would need to buy another drive to backup this | 00:55 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i'm pretty sure the process is just "apt-get install steam-installer" | 00:56 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you'll want to make sure multi-arch is enabled first | 00:56 |
| gnarface | (dpkg --print-architecture should return "amd64" and dpkg --print-foreign-architectures should return "i386" -- make sure you "apt-get update" once after enabling it) | 00:58 |
| gnarface | dvbst: and you probably will need all those i386 nvidia packages too | 00:59 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: some laptops have a small "hidden" switch along the edge or somewhere | 00:59 |
| fluffywolf | is it possible this laptop is unusable without a proprietary wifi driver? hrmm | 00:59 |
| fluffywolf | the manual only mentions the keyboard button | 00:59 |
| gnarface | dvbst: (the .run script may have installed them even without multi-arch, i can't imagine how it would have worked before for you otherwise) | 01:00 |
| fluffywolf | the button just sends a ^[[24~ | 01:00 |
| rrq | with Fn key? | 01:01 |
| fluffywolf | yes | 01:01 |
| fluffywolf | forum posts say to install hp wireless assitant and use it to turn it on | 01:01 |
| dvbst | gnarface: i need a different package list either way because the one you gave was for the old drivers | 01:01 |
| dvbst | and regarding steam, i cant just apt-get install steam-installer because steam is already installed on that system | 01:02 |
| fluffywolf | there's supposedly a hard reset procedure that clears all the internal bios toggles, trying it | 01:02 |
| dvbst | so i would need apt to forget the steam one and overwrite it with the one from the repo or something like that | 01:02 |
| dvbst | but still, steam is for later, and so are 2 other things i want to ask you but once my system works | 01:04 |
| fluffywolf | no change | 01:04 |
| dvbst | now we need to focus on making the computer boot normally and not in single user mode | 01:05 |
| dvbst | so what do we do boss? | 01:05 |
| rwp | fluffywolf, Do you have the rfkill command installed? Try: rfkill list | 01:06 |
| rwp | That will say for certain if it is rfkill block and if so soft or hard blocked. | 01:06 |
| fluffywolf | I did that earlier. it said it was hard blocked. | 01:07 |
| fluffywolf | I no longer have rfkill installed, since I rebooted. | 01:07 |
| fluffywolf | unblock did not unlock it | 01:07 |
| fluffywolf | unblock | 01:07 |
| rwp | Hard blocked. Okay. It's hard blocked then. My Thinkpad has a switch which sometimes gets flipped on mine. Wish I had a switch to disable the disable switch. | 01:08 |
| fluffywolf | no switch, only button | 01:09 |
| fluffywolf | and only windows driver for the button, it sounds like | 01:09 |
| fluffywolf | " The issue of HP wireless being inoperable because of a hard block and therefore the usual wireless key not toggling wireless on and off is long-standing. There are only a few things you can try." | 01:10 |
| fluffywolf | ... cutting the trace on the wifi card, for example | 01:10 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 01:10 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i think you just remove that kernel command-line parameter you had added and replace it with nomodeset. nomodeset may not be strictly necessary in all cases but it's the first thing i'd try adding if problems entering the graphical environment persist. as for a different nvidia package list... that's the only one i've got, and those are from current stable. if you want to try the nvidia-open-* ones, try installing | 01:11 |
| gnarface | those first then just see what it complains about, but do keep using the current stable versions unless there's a showstopper breakage compelling you to upgrade | 01:11 |
| rwp | I think I remember that issue on my old HP NC4000 laptop. Had to boot windows in order to change some things. | 01:11 |
| gnarface | dvbst: (and in the event of "show stopper breakage" compelling an upgrade, check for the relevant upgrade in daedalus-backports first before resorting to a more... destructive approach) | 01:12 |
| dvbst | man i dont want to install the old stable ones, i already made the move to get all the new shit so lets do that, new devuan version, new nvidia drivers and new way of installing steam, discord and firefox, i want to do it all in one go | 01:15 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: does the live installer turn on wifi? | 01:15 |
| dvbst | so lets go with the backports thing, tell me how to do it | 01:16 |
| fluffywolf | there may be a kernel module that makes it work | 01:16 |
| dvbst | and with the nomodeset, the graphics cant be causing problems yet because the problems start before the graphics initialize, so tell me other things i should try | 01:17 |
| gnarface | dvbst: really, this is probably not a helpful impulse, this is probably pure version fetishism and isn't actually getting you more features or performance, just sacrificing stability unnecessarily, and as long as you're using the deb packages, you can always just as easily upgrade to the backports one later | 01:17 |
| fluffywolf | no way to get the kernel config from the installer I take it? | 01:17 |
| gnarface | dvbst: no, my current theory is still that the problems start exactly at the moment the graphics initialize, and prevent them from doing so, and so far we've seen no evidence to refute that hypothesis | 01:18 |
| dvbst | i think we agreed yesterday that just the tty may be littered on and that the lightdm is fine, but for lightdm to show up i need to get the drivers, so lets do that | 01:18 |
| gnarface | dvbst: yea, start with the stable ones, please | 01:18 |
| dvbst | ok, im on it | 01:18 |
| dvbst | nomodeset at the end of the line that says "linux" at the start in the grub command line, right? | 01:19 |
| fsmithred | dvbst, yes | 01:20 |
| dongle | how can i edit the kernel parameters on sysvinit? | 01:20 |
| gnarface | dvbst: yes, the thing about nomodeset is it prevents the kernel from using a framebuffer to increase the text-mode resolution which requires graphical hardware, and this has been known to prevent the drivers from successfully enabling the GUI later - not predictably, seems to vary depending on hardware and driver version | 01:20 |
| fsmithred | dongle, do you mean boot parameters or kernel configs? | 01:20 |
| dongle | boot parameters | 01:20 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i would try it with nomodeset first, then once everything is working, try it without | 01:20 |
| gnarface | (but be ready to put it right back) | 01:21 |
| dongle | i want to add splash fsmithred | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | you can edit on the fly by pressing e at the grub boot menu | 01:21 |
| dongle | how about permanent? | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | for persistent changes, edit /etc/default/grub | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | and then run update-grub | 01:21 |
| dongle | i'mthanks fsmithred | 01:22 |
| fsmithred | maybe you want to add or do something with plymouth | 01:22 |
| dongle | yes | 01:22 |
| fsmithred | I don't know anything about it | 01:22 |
| dvbst | oh wow, so now we have another wierd thing, time for moremoretext.jpg | 01:22 |
| fsmithred | dongle, there is a devuanized version of plymouth in the repo. | 01:25 |
| fluffywolf | grrrrrrrrrrrr. this was supposed to be a quick project. I don't fucking have time to waste all day trying to do an install on a throwaway laptop! | 01:26 |
| fluffywolf | why the fuck won't the installer mount a flash drive that mounts perfectly on this box? | 01:27 |
| dongle | fsmithred: i'm using bgrt theme | 01:27 |
| dvbst | https://transfer.rrq.au/cImYYNkoE5/waymoretext1.jpg | 01:27 |
| dvbst | https://transfer.rrq.au/XqStlcrJp0/waymoretext2.jpg | 01:28 |
| gnarface | those links don't wrok | 01:28 |
| dvbst | what do you want me to do then | 01:29 |
| gnarface | summarize | 01:29 |
| gnarface | or, wait, this thing has working network now, doesn't it? | 01:29 |
| gnarface | you should be able to just upload the text somewhere | 01:30 |
| gnarface | you can even just /msg it to me here | 01:30 |
| dvbst | i took pictures of the grub command line | 01:31 |
| gnarface | oh | 01:31 |
| gnarface | well there can't be that much wrong with it... | 01:31 |
| gnarface | it's just one line | 01:31 |
| gnarface | what are you seeing? is the interface scrambled? is there stuff there you didn't put there? | 01:32 |
| gnarface | you should be able to be making these edits from the /etc/default/grub file and running update-grub now, you shouldn't need to be doing this from the boot menu anymore | 01:33 |
| dvbst | so its pretty much the same thing as the working one but it adds 4 entries, each one loads a bunch of stuff like it did before and they all differ with one line, so one entry has the 6.1 kernel with ro and quiet, another one has 6.1 ro single, another one is 5.10 ro quiet, and last one is 5.10 ro single | 01:33 |
| fluffywolf | so the installer can't mount fat32? | 01:33 |
| dvbst | so i guess i just go with the 6.1 but replace quiet with nomodeset? | 01:34 |
| dvbst | the rest looks fine | 01:34 |
| fluffywolf | what is the proper way to add additional kernel modules to the installer? | 01:34 |
| gnarface | dvbst: yes, it's normal for there to be multiple entries for each kernel, and it's normal for there to be entries for every installed kernel, and it's normal for the kernel you were using from the previous release to still be installed after upgrading | 01:34 |
| dvbst | yea it just was wierd to me that this is inconsistent and it gives different options randomly | 01:35 |
| gnarface | dvbst: as long as the default is the newest one, everything is working fine | 01:36 |
| fluffywolf | fuck, it's fucking after 4:30 in the afternoon. I've wasted more than half the fucking day trying to make this laptop work. | 01:36 |
| dvbst | because this is now the 3rd variant of the grub command line thing, it chooses one of those randomly each time i reboot | 01:37 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: you having problems with onboard wifi? i usually just resort to USB | 01:37 |
| fluffywolf | I don't think I have a usb wifi adapter. | 01:38 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you've probably also upgraded grub every time you reboot, it should stop looking so different pretty soon | 01:38 |
| fluffywolf | well, I'm sure I do somewhere, a 802.11b one from about 30 years ago, but that was about the last time I saw it, too... | 01:38 |
| fluffywolf | this project was supposed to be entirely done three hours ago | 01:39 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: realtek sells some really cheap like 9$ ones, that are well supported you just need to pick the right one | 01:39 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: if you're out of ideas, figure out which chip is in this one, it probably shows up under several brands: https://support.dlink.com/ProductInfo.aspx?m=DWA-121 | 01:40 |
| gnarface | should cost $9 | 01:40 |
| gnarface | should work for everything unless you need 5GHz | 01:41 |
| gnarface | (but does require "firmware-realtek" from non-free) | 01:41 |
| gnarface | linux still doesn't have great wifi support, not all the devices in the wild work, even from brands like broadcom and realtek who are known for all their devices working | 01:42 |
| gnarface | the success of wifi in linux is greatly exaggerated | 01:42 |
| fluffywolf | grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! after figuring out that the installer's mount only works if you use -t, I tried copying the kernel module for hp's crap from this laptop to use on that laptop.... "Invalid module format". They're both fucking 6.1.0! the format did not change! | 01:43 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: i feel your pain. it's not a fair situation, but probably someone who owns Microsoft stock actually doesn't want this working, and until they change their mind you might not have any other options besides changing devices. | 01:44 |
| gnarface | (similar problems persist with the onboard wifi in my pinebooks) | 01:45 |
| fluffywolf | is the installer built with a kernel incompatible with the kernel in the main repos? | 01:45 |
| fluffywolf | I can only assume so, from the invalid module format. | 01:46 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: i don't think so, i assume the problem is that you have a device with a model # matching a supported device that needs a "secret" unofficial version of unshipped non-free firmware to work, and the only place to get that special "secret" firmware version is some completely sketchy anonymous github page | 01:47 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: but maybe i didn't read your whole account from the scrollback clearly enough, that's just the problem i've run into lately | 01:48 |
| fluffywolf | googling says I need hp-wmi.ko, which is not included on the installer kernel | 01:48 |
| fluffywolf | it is included with the main kernel | 01:48 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: if you have some driver supposedly from some 3rd party source, try getting the firmware from that same source, even if the firmware package from devaun | 01:49 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: *even if the firmware package from devuan/debian's repos claim to support that model # | 01:49 |
| fluffywolf | the installer includes wmi.ko, but not hp-wmi.ko... | 01:49 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: wait, is this only a problem with the installer you're having? do you even know for sure it would work with the main kernel? | 01:50 |
| dvbst | gnarface: ok so booting the system with nomodeset (just nomodeset, without single or quiet) leads to the same thing as booting the system normally | 01:52 |
| dvbst | we wanted to check if it also does that on the liveiso alone if its a hardware issue, right? do i do that now? | 01:52 |
| fsmithred | dvbst, you can have something between single user and graphical (black screen in your case) if you just disable lightdm. | 01:53 |
| gnarface | dvbst: as in, it still fails? nah, try going back to single mode and starting X manually then with startx | 01:53 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you might have to disable lightdm first | 01:53 |
| fsmithred | update-service --remove /etc/sv/lightdm | 01:54 |
| fsmithred | to reverse that later, change --remove to --add | 01:54 |
| dvbst | i cannot disable lightdm because i cant log in at all because the login prompt gets littered with messages and then the screen clears as soon as i stop pressing ctrl+alt+fX | 01:55 |
| dvbst | for me to start X in any way i need the nvidia drivers installed | 01:56 |
| dvbst | i think | 01:56 |
| fsmithred | I'm not sure I understand about the screen clearing, but I've seen screens spammed with message. | 01:56 |
| rwp | If it were me I would boot the installer in rescue mode, mount the system in the rescue-image, then go look to see what's in the logs or it. And also it would be a good test to see the live boot image of the rescue installer work, or get cluttered too. | 01:56 |
| dvbst | im on the other monitor now so i may not, ill try it | 01:56 |
| fsmithred | My solution in that case is to close my eyes to log in and to type commands. Not kidding. | 01:57 |
| fluffywolf | why do I have hp-wmi.ko on 6.1.0-0, but not in the package for 6.1.0-10? | 01:57 |
| dvbst | im trying what rwp said right now | 01:59 |
| dvbst | devuan_daedalus_5.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso is what im trying | 02:01 |
| fluffywolf | was the module for this button really removed somewhere between 6.1.0-0 and 6.1.0-10? | 02:02 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: is wmi.ko loaded ? | 02:03 |
| fluffywolf | no | 02:03 |
| fluffywolf | because it doesn't exist | 02:03 |
| fluffywolf | oh, yes, wmi.ko is | 02:03 |
| fluffywolf | hp_wmi doesn't exist. | 02:03 |
| fluffywolf | (only because I modprobed it earlier, and it did nothing) | 02:03 |
| rrq | yes I see it's not included in that deb ... it's found in later deb's though | 02:04 |
| fluffywolf | and earlier .debs | 02:04 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 02:04 |
| rwp | dvbst, That image is a good one, that is the live boot image not the netinst rescue image but it's a good test. | 02:05 |
| rrq | so would it help running a live system? | 02:05 |
| dvbst | ok so this boots damn fine and has zero problems whatsoever | 02:06 |
| rwp | The advantage to the netinst rescue is that it has dialogs to grab you by the nose and to drag you through the process. With the live desktop image you have to know what to do yourself. | 02:06 |
| dvbst | and it booted xfce | 02:07 |
| fsmithred | :) | 02:07 |
| rwp | Yes. It's the desktop live boot image. | 02:07 |
| dvbst | and the other ttys work damn fine too | 02:07 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: actual kernel version is 6.1.38-1 | 02:08 |
| rwp | Since you are booted you can poke around a little and then I would determine what partition is the installed image and how it is configured (encrypted, lvm, whatever) and then mount it. | 02:08 |
| dvbst | so the problem is in what the upgrade did | 02:08 |
| fluffywolf | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/757944/hp-wlan-button-and-led-dontt-work ok, so it's a known regression | 02:08 |
| fluffywolf | and the installer ships with the ONE FUCKING VERSION where it doesn't work | 02:08 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 02:08 |
| rwp | dvbst, Have you ever mounted an installed system before and then chroot'd to it before? | 02:08 |
| gnarface | rwp: he has, but not with a devuan live iso yet | 02:09 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: maybe install the base system without network, and then you can run some live iso to upgrade that install | 02:09 |
| rrq | if the live handles your wifi | 02:09 |
| gnarface | dvbst: well, at least that means i don't have to bother doing a version check on the stable drivers, but i'm betting that live iso didn't use the "open source" flavor | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | what wifi hardware do you have, fluffywolf? | 02:10 |
| dvbst | rwp i even managed to install gentoo once, but its too much work to use it daily so i reinstalled devuan | 02:10 |
| rwp | gnarface, We will have to talk them through it then. | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | no nvidia driver in the live iso | 02:10 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: wait, really? it's still using nouveau? | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | yes | 02:10 |
| gnarface | oy | 02:10 |
| fluffywolf | fsmithred: I'm setting up a shitty hp laptop to use to stream music at work. I can't install because no network. There's no network because the button on the keyboard to toggle wifi on/off doesn't work. The button doesn't work because the exact kernel shipped with the installer wasn't built with the correct kernel modules, due to a debian bug. | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | wouldn't nvidia driver make it hard for anyone with amd graphics? | 02:11 |
| fluffywolf | the module from the slightly older 6.1.0 on my laptop won't load, says invalid module format. | 02:11 |
| fluffywolf | it seems the kernel included with the installer can't be made to work on this laptop | 02:12 |
| gnarface | dvbst: alright, apples-to-oranges comparison, so that's not actually helpful, but regardless, you should still be able to chroot in and disable lightdm now. | 02:12 |
| fsmithred | yes | 02:12 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: uh, it used to, but i thought they were supposed to be able to coexist now, but it's also something i haven't tried, i had just assumed you must have found a way around it but i'm apparently remembering wrong | 02:12 |
| fluffywolf | the installer should be repacked with a newer kernel that will actually install on hp laptops, I would say. lol | 02:12 |
| gnarface | dvbst: if we can get it just booting fine in text mode, it'll be easier to debug any graphical issues from there | 02:13 |
| fluffywolf | kernel upstream added a new config option that debian didn't catch, which was required for the module to be built, so the module that makes the wifi button work isn't built for the kernel on the installation media. | 02:15 |
| dvbst | ok so you want me to mount my drive and chroot into my system to see the logs and disable lightdm in runit? | 02:15 |
| rrq | yes, installer upgrades could happen as soon as someone steps up to do the work. | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | fluffywolf, there are installer isos for excalibur (testing) which might be appropriate for this use. | 02:15 |
| gnarface | dvbst: yea | 02:15 |
| fluffywolf | urgh, I already used 500MB of data downloading the daedalus iso... | 02:15 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i'm still operating under the assumption that the issue occurs when it tries to start lightdm | 02:15 |
| rwp | dvbst, While you are booted into a graphical mode, look at the /var/log/Xorg.0.log file for the working live boot. It might be good to save it off as a working reference copy. | 02:16 |
| gnarface | dvbst: and i'm double checking that driver version now, to be absolutely sure, you reported it as a RTX 2060? any additional info, like the mobile or "super" version? | 02:16 |
| dvbst | then please explain to me 2 things, why do i need the devuan iso for that if the other one allows me to do the same job the same way, as i had done already like 10 times (with that arch iso), and why do we need to disable lightdm if stuff falls apart waaaay before it starts? and that stuff that fals apart is the problem, not lightdm? | 02:16 |
| * fluffywolf gets devuan_excalibur_6.0-202406250951_i386_netinstall.iso | 02:17 | |
| fluffywolf | whoops, wrong arch | 02:17 |
| * fluffywolf gets devuan_excalibur_6.0-202406250952_amd64_netinstall.iso | 02:17 | |
| gnarface | dvbst: uh, it's not actually clear to me it's falling apart way before the GUI starts. you keep saying that but i'm not clear on why you think that. | 02:18 |
| fluffywolf | won't be downloaded for a while. | 02:18 |
| gnarface | dvbst: as for why we needed the devaun iso... we apparently didn't, but it's helpful to see it's working fine so we know the problem isn't fundamental to devuan | 02:18 |
| fsmithred | fluffywolf, other option is to debootstrap which you could do from any iso. | 02:19 |
| fluffywolf | README.TXT suggests it's uninstallable? | 02:19 |
| fluffywolf | .txt | 02:19 |
| fsmithred | what is uninstallable? | 02:19 |
| fluffywolf | the iso I'm downloading. | 02:19 |
| fluffywolf | that doesn't install the base system due to usrmerge | 02:19 |
| gnarface | dvbst: also, the arch iso was using an older kernel, which should have been fine but not something we could be 100% certain of under the circumstances | 02:20 |
| dvbst | gnarface: no, plain old 2060, not mobile, just the 2060 nothing else | 02:20 |
| fluffywolf | the readme makes it sound like they're totally broken. | 02:21 |
| gnarface | dvbst: alright, the stable drivers should be well new enough for that one | 02:21 |
| dvbst | gnarface: okay i get you, so now ill send the Xorg.0.log somewhere somehow and then (i forgot already) | 02:22 |
| rwp | fluffywolf, Can you use one of your Toughbooks to download an older kernel and then side-load it from there to the HP? | 02:22 |
| fluffywolf | by the time I did that, I could just get a usb wifi dongle. | 02:22 |
| gnarface | dvbst: to be clear, the Xorg.0.log from inside the chroot, so we can see what's failing | 02:22 |
| dvbst | no thats not what rwp said | 02:23 |
| dvbst | read it again | 02:23 |
| gnarface | dvbst: he wants to see the working one from the live iso too, that's perfectly valid, but i want to see an error | 02:23 |
| dvbst | the xorg.0.log from the live one | 02:23 |
| gnarface | upload both | 02:23 |
| fsmithred | nc termbin.com 9999 < /var/log/Xorg.0.log | 02:23 |
| rwp | Upload both. | 02:23 |
| fsmithred | and then the same for /mnt/log/Xorg.0.log (or wherever you mounted) | 02:24 |
| fluffywolf | usb wifi dongle might be the easiest solution at this point | 02:24 |
| rwp | I like usb dongles for at least a temporary solution. Good plan. | 02:24 |
| fsmithred | which kernel do you need, fluffywolf? | 02:24 |
| fluffywolf | the excaelibur (heh, sorry, couldn't resist) installer isos sound broken. | 02:24 |
| dvbst | man what do you not get, i cant get the xorg.0.log from the broken system because it doesnt start, because the init falls apart at the stage before it can start | 02:24 |
| rwp | Sigh. Mount it first. | 02:25 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you might be surprised, check | 02:25 |
| dvbst | ok im on it | 02:25 |
| fluffywolf | fsmithred: anything other than the one on the daedalus installer, I think. lol. the older 6.1.0 on this box has the right module, and supposedly newer ones have it too. | 02:25 |
| fsmithred | the live isos might have an older kernel | 02:25 |
| gnarface | dvbst: i think you might be under the mistaken assumption that the GUI can't fail before actually presenting you with a GUI | 02:25 |
| fsmithred | I'll check | 02:25 |
| fluffywolf | anything from like 2.6 to 6.3, excluding 6.1.0-10, or something. | 02:25 |
| dvbst | why isnt mc installed by default on the devuan live iso | 02:26 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you frankly might be right that the problem has nothing to do with the GUI, we don't actually know for sure, but at this point all the hints point in that direction and with NVidia hardware it's the most likely culprit | 02:26 |
| fluffywolf | opinions on $8 ebay laptop packs straight from china? | 02:27 |
| gnarface | dvbst: in the chroot, look in /var/log/ and ~/.local/share/xorg/ for any files matching "Xorg.*.log*" and if there are, it at least tried to start a GUI at some point | 02:29 |
| fluffywolf | bbl, I've wasted too much time on this today. I can't spend any more on it. | 02:30 |
| fluffywolf | this was supposed to be a 30 minute project while I took a lunch break, and that was six hours ago. | 02:30 |
| rwp | I know you have learned that everything about a machine takes longer than it should. | 02:31 |
| fsmithred | vmlinuz-6.1.0-10-amd64 | 02:31 |
| gnarface | dvbst: and check the datestamps on those files | 02:31 |
| fsmithred | ^^^ fluffywolf | 02:31 |
| rwp | fluffywolf, I think you could download the smaller netinstall from chimaera too and then boot it rescue mode and chroot in and then use it to install the older Debian kernel. | 02:32 |
| fluffywolf | same as the intaller | 02:32 |
| fluffywolf | or install chimaera, upgrade with just the base system, the install everything else... | 02:32 |
| fluffywolf | but, I no longer have time to work on it. | 02:32 |
| fluffywolf | I shouldn't have spent this long. | 02:33 |
| fluffywolf | bbl | 02:33 |
| rwp | Good luck! | 02:33 |
| fsmithred | refracta iso has -11 | 02:33 |
| dvbst | i have to update to install mc | 02:47 |
| Xenguy | Wait until midnight | 02:47 |
| dvbst | that thing has been going on since i said that mc isnt installed by default | 02:48 |
| dvbst | its still going | 02:48 |
| dvbst | but i noticed that it pulled a new firefox | 02:48 |
| dvbst | and its still 115 | 02:48 |
| dvbst | how | 02:48 |
| gnarface | hopefully you can fit all those updates into system ram... | 02:48 |
| dvbst | its the new repos on daedalus | 02:48 |
| dvbst | yea its chill, i have 32gb | 02:48 |
| fluffywolf | you might be able to open a half dozen tabs in firefox with that! | 02:49 |
| dvbst | yea i usually have like 4 windows with +100 tabs in them on that computer | 02:52 |
| dvbst | it still uses just 7gb of ram | 02:52 |
| fluffywolf | for how long? :P | 02:54 |
| dvbst | all the time | 03:01 |
| fluffywolf | usually firefox leaks and needs restarting every couple weeks | 03:04 |
| dvbst | gnarface rwp fsmithred so i did apt-get update, apt-get upgrade apt install mc on the live iso, it spited out some bullshit but i ignored it because its a live iso, but when it was done i start up mc and its all fucked | 03:06 |
| * temp64 zzz... | 03:07 | |
| gnarface | dvbst: okay but, is mc really necessary for this task? | 03:07 |
| dvbst | it isnt, but its as natural to me as using the keyboard at this point | 03:08 |
| gnarface | dvbst: updating the live iso in this fashion isn't really advised, because it's strongly likely that you're going to update something that needs a reboot to take effect... which wipes all the changes you just downloaded | 03:08 |
| dvbst | so id rather have it | 03:08 |
| gnarface | dvbst: how about this, just use the live iso to chroot in and disable lightdm and see if you can boot regularly to a text console and log in, without the live iso, then from there we can much more easily and accurately decide upon and execute the next steps | 03:09 |
| dvbst | ok so look | 03:09 |
| gnarface | (those steps could even include installing mc) | 03:09 |
| dvbst | you wanted me to get that file backed up | 03:10 |
| gnarface | the Xorg log, yea | 03:10 |
| gnarface | did you find one? | 03:10 |
| gnarface | do you need help finding one without mc | 03:10 |
| gnarface | ? | 03:10 |
| dvbst | the way i would do it is to get in mc from that machine and send it to my ftp server | 03:10 |
| gnarface | actaully literally ftp protocol? | 03:11 |
| dvbst | no i already have it, i just need to back it up | 03:11 |
| dvbst | yes the ftp protocol | 03:11 |
| gnarface | can you open a shell on the ftp server with ssh? | 03:11 |
| gnarface | or even locally physically? | 03:11 |
| gnarface | i can tell you a number of ways to get it over there from the console | 03:12 |
| dvbst | i just want to upload the xorg log to the ftp | 03:12 |
| gnarface | ok, there's a console ftp program, that's probably already installed, it just wouldn't be my first choice... scp or netcat would be easier if you have any shell access to the ftp server | 03:13 |
| dvbst | i have no idea how to use anything other than mc for doing that | 03:13 |
| gnarface | i get that | 03:13 |
| gnarface | but i'm super good at this | 03:14 |
| gnarface | i can tell you | 03:14 |
| dvbst | ok go ahead | 03:14 |
| gnarface | type "ftp" then hit enter | 03:14 |
| dvbst | okay | 03:14 |
| gnarface | does the prompt change to "ftp>" ? | 03:14 |
| dvbst | yup | 03:15 |
| gnarface | now type "o [url]" where [url] is the hostname of your ftp server | 03:15 |
| dvbst | just hostname? | 03:15 |
| dvbst | or the username@hostname like in mc | 03:15 |
| gnarface | it should then prompt you for the user and pass, to be honest i can't be sure | 03:16 |
| gnarface | either might work | 03:16 |
| gnarface | this might be the same actual ftp program you've used and mc is just acting as a frontend for it, i don't know | 03:16 |
| gnarface | but it's also not hard to figure out | 03:16 |
| gnarface | in another terminal, you can open the instruction page for it with "man ftp" | 03:17 |
| gnarface | i infer this might actually be one of several different ftp programs, but they shouldn't be very different | 03:17 |
| * Xenguy whispers 'lftp' ... | 03:18 | |
| gnarface | you can probably do it all from a single command without even the first step of opening a prompt with the "ftp" program, if you read that man page | 03:18 |
| onefang | Most of the commands are actually commands to the FTP server. | 03:18 |
| dvbst | welp nvm, the server is offline | 03:18 |
| Xenguy | Don't listen to me, I just really love lftp | 03:18 |
| gnarface | yea, that's an important key note; what ftp server you're actually running has a wildly large amount of influence on what the interface actually is, it's like irc in that fashion | 03:19 |
| onefang | I'm with the mc brigade, first thing I install if I can. | 03:19 |
| Xenguy | I'm a ranger guy now, if that's ontopic | 03:19 |
| gnarface | dvbst: you're booted into the live iso right now? can you get into this irc channel from it? | 03:20 |
| dvbst | and when using ftp with mc, you dont really use commands, it just another window that pops up and you can move, copy, delete files/directories on it like its on my computer | 03:20 |
| gnarface | dvbst: for that matter, can you get to paste.debian.net with a browser? | 03:21 |
| gnarface | if you can get a regular net connection to the live iso, you can just use paste.debian.net and that'll be much easier | 03:21 |
| gnarface | we don't need a backup for posterity, we just need to skim it | 03:22 |
| gnarface | dvbst: and just one other thing to double check to be sure, you don't have a /etc/X11/xorg.conf file currently (in the chroot, not the live iso, i mean) do you? | 03:23 |
| dvbst | wait i cant be doing 4 things at the same time | 03:24 |
| dvbst | if i need to use the browser then i need to get a mouse and all that | 03:25 |
| dvbst | wait | 03:25 |
| gnarface | technically no, but a mouse will make it much easiser | 03:25 |
| gnarface | (enough easier to be worth unplugging a mouse and walking it across the room) | 03:25 |
| fluffywolf | excaelibur iso won't usb boot. not off to a good start, that... | 03:26 |
| fluffywolf | have to manually select it in the boot device selection options, while daedalus would always boot by default | 03:27 |
| gnarface | hmm, odd | 03:28 |
| gnarface | can't be many reasons for that | 03:28 |
| fluffywolf | wifi button still doesn't work, doesn't look like the module is included with the installer kernel... | 03:29 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: did you try the live iso? | 03:29 |
| gnarface | sorry if that was already mentioned | 03:30 |
| * fluffywolf unpacks the one in /cdrom | 03:30 | |
| gnarface | but if the point was just to get a install, live-iso -> debootstrap -> chroot -> grub-install usually works | 03:31 |
| fluffywolf | someone found the live iso had the same bad kernel build | 03:31 |
| rrq | fluffywolf: install the daedalus base system without network. Then you can work with that. | 03:31 |
| fluffywolf | hard to work without network... | 03:32 |
| rrq | it's quite easy to install the base system without network | 03:33 |
| rrq | it comes on the iso | 03:33 |
| rrq | on every installer iso | 03:33 |
| fluffywolf | there's something wrong with the terminal on excaelibur. it's probably a kernel issue, not a devuan issue, unless it's something with udev or something. | 03:33 |
| gnarface | yea, the netinstall can be completed without a network, you just skip the step that downloads packages | 03:33 |
| rrq | you don't need a network for that | 03:33 |
| fluffywolf | scrolling is SLOW. like, 2 lines per second. it was normal with daedalus. | 03:33 |
| fluffywolf | it feels like a serial terminal. | 03:34 |
| dvbst | paste.debian.net | 03:34 |
| gnarface | dvbst: uh, you copied it wrong | 03:34 |
| dvbst | no no no im just writing it again for myself, forget it | 03:34 |
| gnarface | oh | 03:34 |
| gnarface | brb | 03:35 |
| dvbst | oh yea and i need to get to the irc on that thing too | 03:35 |
| dvbst | oh my god | 03:35 |
| dvbst | can someone just copy paste the details of this | 03:35 |
| dvbst | so i can retype them there | 03:35 |
| dvbst | thank god my ethernet cable is 5 meters for some reason so i can just unplug the power plug and take the laptop with me there | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | dvbst, you want the xorg log from the booted live iso, right? | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | nc termbin.com 9999 < /var/log/Xorg.0.log | 03:37 |
| fsmithred | you'll have to remember four-letter url | 03:37 |
| dvbst | whatever, i got it | 03:37 |
| dvbst | what is the default irc client on the live iso? | 03:40 |
| fsmithred | irssi | 03:41 |
| fsmithred | or hexchat | 03:41 |
| fluffywolf | meh. got hp_wmi loaded, button still no worky | 03:41 |
| fluffywolf | could be this laptop is not linux compatible. | 03:41 |
| fluffywolf | none of the other special buttons (brightness, etc) have started working either | 03:42 |
| dvbst | fsmithred no irssi nor hexchat | 03:42 |
| fsmithred | uh, I guess it's firefox. | 03:44 |
| dvbst | paste.debian.net | 03:45 |
| fluffywolf | but now rfkill says it's unblocked, even though the light still says it's disabled | 03:45 |
| dvbstfromthelive | http://paste.debian.net/1324688/ | 03:46 |
| fluffywolf | there needs to be a mini-dpkg on the installer cd that just unpacks debs recursively into /... | 03:46 |
| dvbstfromthelive | ok is that it? can i boot my arch iso now please? | 03:46 |
| fluffywolf | does excaelibur installer not include any non-free firmware? | 03:47 |
| fluffywolf | yay, wifi works on excaelibur, after manually unpacking hp_wmi | 03:47 |
| fluffywolf | now, will it actually install and work? lol | 03:48 |
| fluffywolf | I don't know what's with scrolling... I think it's not actually scrolling itself, but a characters/second limitation. short lines scroll faster. | 03:51 |
| fluffywolf | automatic partitioning created a 1GB swap. that's silly on a box with 4GB ram. among other things, it means hibernate won't work. dunno who should fix that, but that's a bug. | 03:53 |
| fsmithred | automatic partitioning is stupid | 03:57 |
| fluffywolf | yeah, I just wanted to see what it would do. it did stupid. :P | 03:57 |
| fluffywolf | on a 240GB drive, on a box with 4GB ram, it should not make a 1GB swap partition. | 03:57 |
| fluffywolf | base system won't install. usrmerge errors. | 03:58 |
| fsmithred | oh, you have to do expert install and select merged usr | 03:58 |
| fluffywolf | urgh... that will mean manually loading hp_wmi again! | 04:00 |
| fluffywolf | still won't boot off the usb drive automatically, even with no bootable os on the hard drive. definitely something different with this iso. | 04:01 |
| fluffywolf | it seems to detect it as a usb hard drive, while it was a usb cdrom before? | 04:02 |
| fluffywolf | or something | 04:02 |
| fsmithred | I can offer you two or three isos that have newer kernels. | 04:06 |
| fsmithred | refracta isos have 6.1.0-11 and I made a devuan desktop-live in March that has 6.1.0-18 here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/experimental/devuan_daedalus_5.0-memtesttest-2024-03-29_amd64_desktop-live.iso | 04:07 |
| fluffywolf | I've already used too much bandwidth. | 04:08 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if the refracta isos have the wireless firmware you need | 04:08 |
| fluffywolf | if it can't install without merged usr, it should be the default... | 04:10 |
| fluffywolf | wifi just worked this time around, without loading the module, after I loaded the module last time. | 04:11 |
| fluffywolf | daedalus might well work now too. lol | 04:11 |
| fluffywolf | the wifi light is white instead of orange now | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | rawr | 04:12 |
| fluffywolf | no security repo, but that's to be expected | 04:17 |
| fluffywolf | grrr, has to download 135MB of upgrades just to the base system... that means I can't use my internet for an hour. | 04:20 |
| fluffywolf | (other than IRC) | 04:20 |
| fluffywolf | well, 40 minutes. | 04:20 |
| fluffywolf | aaand up to 1 hour, 8 minutes... | 04:21 |
| fluffywolf | bleh | 04:21 |
| fluffywolf | yay, finished early | 04:34 |
| fluffywolf | select init systemd doesn't let me select systemd? :P | 04:34 |
| fluffywolf | well, I rebooted into the base system, so it looks like excalibur is installable. I didn't tasksel anything... somehow it still used a full GB of disk. | 04:42 |
| fluffywolf | I need to remember how to disable ipv6 before actually using it. | 04:44 |
| fluffywolf | (crashes my hotspot if you open more than a couple ipv6 connctions) | 04:44 |
| fsmithred | maybe in /etc/sysctl.conf | 04:45 |
| fsmithred | maybe not | 04:47 |
| fluffywolf | I'll need to install X and a usable system later, if I have the bandwidth. I assume once it's installed, it should be relatively functional. | 04:47 |
| fluffywolf | the only real issue I ran into during installation was it defaulting to non-merged and then not working. | 04:47 |
| fluffywolf | (issue not caused by hp) | 04:47 |
| fluffywolf | also, no firmware for the ethernet adapter. | 04:48 |
| fluffywolf | and no firmware for the radeon, too. | 04:48 |
| fluffywolf | brb | 04:48 |
| gnarface | dvbst: that was the latest one from inside the chroot, right? because it says it's still using nouveau... | 05:02 |
| gnarface | try blacklisting the nouveau module | 05:02 |
| dvbst | gnarface: that was from the live iso | 05:24 |
| gnarface | dvbst: oh, we need to see both still | 05:25 |
| dvbst | okay, im on it | 05:25 |
| dvbst | can i please use my arch iso for that or do i have to use the devuan | 05:26 |
| gnarface | i don't think it matters | 05:26 |
| dvbst | epic | 05:26 |
| dvbst | yea okay we do have something | 05:34 |
| gnarface | paste.debian.net | 05:35 |
| dvbst_ | ok so the situation currently looks like this: | 05:55 |
| dvbst_ | on the arch liveiso i have my system drive mounted, and i have set up sshfs | 05:56 |
| dvbst_ | on this computer that i am right now, i have access to the files on both the liveiso and my system, since its mounted there | 05:57 |
| dvbst_ | ill now send the files | 05:57 |
| dvbst_ | https://paste.debian.net/1324694/ | 05:59 |
| dvbst_ | https://paste.debian.net/1324695/ | 05:59 |
| dvbst_ | anything else? | 06:02 |
| fluffywolf | first non-installer bug: even though I selected pacific time during installation, my system time is in UTC, with /etc/timezone saying Etc/UTC | 06:16 |
| fluffywolf | well, that's probably still an installer bug. | 06:16 |
| fluffywolf | but first one I noticed after rebooting. lol | 06:16 |
| * fluffywolf does a dpkg-reconfigure tzdata | 06:24 | |
| gnarface | dvbst_: these both look like they're from the devuan install though... and they both say the module failed to load, and no video card was detected, and no screens were found, and it's reporting version 550, not the one you were supposed to have installed (538 or something?) | 06:28 |
| gnarface | dvbst_: so far this supports my hypothesis that the root cause with the upgrade failure was that .run script | 06:28 |
| fluffywolf | bbl, wolfy bedtime | 06:29 |
| gnarface | dvbst_: ... actually seeing the Xorg log from your arch live iso wouldn't be a bad idea though mind you, but a working example is purely academic at this point | 06:29 |
| gnarface | dvbst_: do you have a custom /etc/X11/xorg.conf file for your arch live iso, by the way? | 06:30 |
| dvbst_ | its a pure console | 06:33 |
| dvbst_ | no xorg there | 06:33 |
| gnarface | no X install? then that doesn't help | 06:33 |
| gnarface | however, the driver version should be 535.183.something | 06:33 |
| dvbst_ | do i run around the fs and remove the mess that the runscript made? | 06:34 |
| gnarface | if that was the log from the chroot, clearly some leftover stuff from the .run script is still there | 06:34 |
| dvbst_ | the kernel should be fine cuz apt pulled a new one and i didnt install the drivers on that yet | 06:34 |
| gnarface | yes, it might be simple to fix but i don't know off the top of my head how | 06:35 |
| gnarface | (other than just re-installing) | 06:35 |
| gnarface | the run script might be able to self-remove enough stuff that force-reinstalling some of the nvidia packages might do the trick | 06:35 |
| gnarface | i couldn't be sure though | 06:35 |
| gnarface | use your own judgment | 06:36 |
| dvbst_ | does the init start it? does xorg start it? i think xorg starts it because in the run wizzard nvidia asks if you want to back up some xorg configuration because it updates it | 06:36 |
| gnarface | these logs don't tell me what started it, presumably the lightdm runit file started this, but that's an assumption just based on what you've told us | 06:37 |
| gnarface | i assume the nvidia wizard is talking about different xorg configs | 06:38 |
| dvbst_ | yes | 06:38 |
| gnarface | probably not the one at /etc/X11/xorg.conf, please do check that you don't have one of those in the chroot though | 06:38 |
| gnarface | we're expecting that it's actually relying entirely on auto-detection and not a static config | 06:38 |
| dvbst_ | do you want me to send it? | 06:38 |
| gnarface | there is one? | 06:38 |
| dvbst_ | ill chec | 06:38 |
| dvbst_ | yes there is | 06:39 |
| dvbst_ | and xorg.conf.backup as well | 06:39 |
| dvbst_ | and xorg.conf.nvidia-xconfig-original | 06:39 |
| gnarface | ok, well it's important that it's correct then, but from what we just saw in those log files, an error in there probably isn't the issue | 06:40 |
| gnarface | i don't think an error in there could cause a version mismatch | 06:40 |
| dvbst_ | do you want to see those? | 06:40 |
| gnarface | sure, but like i said i doubt it's the issue. that file is supposed to be optional these days though, and often is, so if you want you can move it out of the way to try testing auto-detect | 06:41 |
| gnarface | just move it out of the way, back it up somewhere, and reboot to see if the daedalus install comes up normal | 06:42 |
| gnarface | but the original reason i wanted you to check, was that there was some possibility auto-detect was failing... if it was using that config before for chimaera, i doubt it's broken | 06:42 |
| dvbst_ | https://paste.debian.net/1324697/ | 06:42 |
| gnarface | yea, looks completely normal, directly loads the nvidia driver | 06:43 |
| gnarface | this is probably not the problem | 06:43 |
| dvbst_ | so what now? | 06:43 |
| gnarface | well, i'm certain now the problem is you've got partial bits of the 550.xx driver you installed with the nvidia .run script left over in there, and they're causing the driver to fail ungracefully | 06:44 |
| gnarface | seriously at this point i'd recommend a reinstall... kinda "nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" you know? | 06:44 |
| gnarface | but if you think you've got a easier way to fix this, there's not really anything to lose by trying at this point | 06:45 |
| gnarface | maybe that .run script can fix it | 06:45 |
| gnarface | but then you're just gonna be painted into the same corner next time | 06:46 |
| dvbst_ | i see | 06:46 |
| gnarface | actually maybe you won't be, if it has something like a --uninstall that actually works, but who knows if it would at this point even if it would have before the upgrade... | 06:47 |
| gnarface | if it does, then in theory you should just be able to tell it to self-uninstall, then force-reinstall all the nvidia packages and reboot and it should be working finally | 06:47 |
| gnarface | if the .run script can even successfully make Xorg work again for you even if it forces you to use 550.xx, at this point i wouldn't blame you for trying that either | 06:48 |
| gnarface | just know that it's gonna come up again on the next release | 06:49 |
| dvbst_ | i feel you | 06:50 |
| gnarface | this is a problem nvidia created themselves, and they don't care about fixing it | 06:50 |
| gnarface | the nvidia driver packages in the repo though, mostly avoid this problem (mostly) | 06:50 |
| gnarface | you just gotta settle for not having the latest driver version all the time | 06:51 |
| gnarface | but that's usually really less of a problem than you'll think | 06:51 |
| dvbst_ | no i dont think its a problem at all, i think i already told you, tell me how to get rid of the .run one and how to set up the one from the repo and thats what ill be using | 06:53 |
| al1r4d | https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Security | 10:14 |
| al1r4d | Currently i'm reading this | 10:14 |
| al1r4d | Will try on my devuan | 10:14 |
| dvbst_ | yo so i installed the nvidia drivers from the .run file and my computer now works perfectly | 11:56 |
| joerg | haha https://xkcd.com/936/ | 12:24 |
| joerg | al1r4d: thanks, TIL: bindmount some dir on itself :-D | 12:37 |
| AlexLikeRock | soup | 14:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | fisrt time i see this error :-DDDDD | 14:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | ERROR 451: Unavailable For Legal Reasons. | 14:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | hahahaha | 14:50 |
| strato | AlexLikeRock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_451 | 14:56 |
| fsmithred | "Nine twelves are a hundred and eight." I like it. (451) | 15:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | The creator of youtube-dl was sent to jail | 15:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | https://openjur-de.translate.goog/u/2466945.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es-419&_x_tr_pto=wapp | 15:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | not fair | 15:08 |
| fsmithred | AlexLikeRock, this should be in #devuan-offtopic not here | 15:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | sorry | 15:27 |
| fluffywolf | bug: firefox-esr on excalibur defaults to spamming you with clickbait advertisements, and is not acceptable in a linux distro. | 15:55 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 15:56 |
| fluffywolf | who the fuck thought it was ok to package it like this? debian maintainer getting paid off? | 15:56 |
| rustyaxe | Odd, i dont have any ads in my firefux | 16:00 |
| fluffywolf | lazy people spend too much money on these 9 things! is cheating ok if you find love?! etc | 16:01 |
| rustyaxe | Yea never seen any that crap | 16:01 |
| dongle | using cpufrequtils my laptop says i have no governors available in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors. anyone know why there is no governor listed? | 16:01 |
| rustyaxe | tho lately i've had a CPU core running at 100% all the time and still havent found the cause >:( | 16:02 |
| dongle | oh im in a VM | 16:05 |
| ErRandir | rustyaxe: firs determine if it's user space or kernel space. htop will highlight the user space process it that is it. | 16:22 |
| rustyaxe | ErRandir: yea htops not providing anything useful; thinking its a kernel bug that came in recent as ive seen others griping of it but havent had time to bother dig into | 16:28 |
| fsmithred | Upgrade just killed my excalibur. I've got three kernels that all drop me to initramfs prompt. | 16:29 |
| fsmithred | ok, I booted a live-iso, chrooted the installed system and ran 'update-initramfs -u -k all' and it seems to be ok now. | 16:47 |
| AlexLikeRock | whats its de good one ? | 16:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | # apt install -t bookworm-backports yt-dlp | 16:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | or | 16:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | apt -t daedalus-backports install yt-dlp | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | wget https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/releases/latest/download/yt-dlp | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | AlexLikeRock, ^^^ do that in ~/bin/ | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | assuming you have one | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | and then chmod +x yt-dlp | 16:52 |
| AlexLikeRock | http://paste.debian.net/1324741/ | 16:53 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, | 16:53 |
| fsmithred | Why do I need to look at your sources.list? | 16:55 |
| AlexLikeRock | its in the paste | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | ok, so you want me to read every word and figure out what I'm supposed to do with it. | 16:57 |
| fsmithred | meanwhile, take a look at this - it's the script I run to update yt-dlp right before I use it. | 16:58 |
| fsmithred | https://paste.debian.net/1324742/ | 16:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | nice | 16:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | cd ${HOME}/bin/ ???? | 17:00 |
| AlexLikeRock | do you mean : cd /bin/ | 17:00 |
| fsmithred | no | 17:00 |
| cousin_luigi | User installation, one supposes. | 17:00 |
| fsmithred | mkdir /home/alex/bin | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | or whatever your login name is | 17:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | you forget that | 17:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | mkdir /home/alex/bin | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | or put it in /usr/local/bin | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | then every user can use it | 17:01 |
| cousin_luigi | Don't backports people update it often enough? | 17:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | mkdir ${HOME}/bin/ | 17:01 |
| cousin_luigi | What's wrong with ~/bin anyway ? | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | nothing | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | I use it | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | that way I don't have to be root to modify my scripts | 17:02 |
| fsmithred | or update yt-dlp | 17:02 |
| AlexLikeRock | cousin_luigi, /bin its sensitive | 17:02 |
| AlexLikeRock | they have basic-programs of OS | 17:02 |
| fsmithred | AlexLikeRock, if it's not in your path after logout/login then you might need to edit ~/.bashrc | 17:03 |
| fsmithred | see ~/.profile | 17:03 |
| cousin_luigi | AlexLikeRock: No doubt, but noone here planned to use it, I suppose. | 17:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | fsmithred, https://paste.debian.net/1324743/ | 17:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | i forget chrot | 17:07 |
| CueXXIII | AlexLikeRock: what is you current directory? /? | 17:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | chmod +x yt-dlp | 17:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | noop | 17:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | same error | 17:08 |
| CueXXIII | you have no write permissions at your location | 17:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | mmmmm,, nice tip ! | 17:09 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes yout rigth CueXXIII | 17:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | its workin nows as root | 17:10 |
| CueXXIII | a cd ~ should have helped, too | 17:11 |
| fsmithred | ahhhh!!!! | 17:11 |
| fsmithred | NO! | 17:11 |
| CueXXIII | don't run things as root | 17:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | hahahahah | 17:11 |
| fsmithred | Run it as user in user's own home directory or a subdirectory. | 17:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | ‎dont like subdirectories | 17:12 |
| AlexLikeRock | dam!!! | 17:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | your rigth again CueXXIII | 17:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | i try with normal user at "/" | 17:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | hahahaha | 17:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | sorry my fault | 17:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | heheheh | 17:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | nice | 17:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | its working fine , thanks guys CueXXIII fsmithred | 17:37 |
| cc0a3hr | hello guys. Thinking installing devuan for laptop. Is it literally debian without systemd right? Do you think I would have problems such as can't find software etc | 18:04 |
| cc0a3hr | because debian without systemd seems brilliant | 18:04 |
| Xenguy | cc0a3hr, Yes, Devuan is Debian without systemd... | 18:06 |
| buZz | cc0a3hr: maybe 99.99999% of debian packages are on devuan (it even just pulls em straight from debian through our repo) | 18:06 |
| amarsh04 | cc0a3hr yes, Devuan is Debian without systemd - some packages have Devuan-specific versions, the restart are mirrored from Debian in real-time | 18:06 |
| Xenguy | There is a list somewhere of packages that have been 'banned' due to dependence on systemd | 18:06 |
| amarsh04 | the rest are mirrored | 18:06 |
| buZz | devuan also modified a bunch of packages. but not very much | 18:07 |
| buZz | (to remove systemd dependancies, or add init.d scripts etc) | 18:07 |
| golinux | http://deb.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 18:07 |
| cc0a3hr | I seen on artix, it has init system versions of systemd service needed programs for example "name-openrc" so you can use services just like systemd. is it also happens on devuan i wonder | 18:08 |
| amarsh04 | which is referenced from https://www.devuan.org/os/explore | 18:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | hi golinux o/ | 18:09 |
| golinux | Hi AlexLikeRock ! | 18:09 |
| amarsh04 | I migrated two pc's running Debian to Devuan without having to do a re-intallation (one is still running from an installation from June 2004, with migration to new hardware and software upgrades but no re-installation) | 18:10 |
| systemdlete | is there any supported graphical firewall configuration tool besides gufw, which has limited capabilities? firewalld seems to be a bit out of date (oldstable?) | 19:40 |
| systemdlete | and, yes, I know I can use ufw or iptables on the command line. I am asking about graphical UI tools | 19:41 |
| systemdlete | (preferably not too complicated) | 19:41 |
| systemdlete | firewalld also might be somewhat RH-centric? | 19:42 |
| dongle | i installed devuan openrc and pipewire wireplumber but i dont get sound on firefox. i noticed i could not start pipewire as a service. can someone help me troubleshoot? | 19:55 |
| dongle | im using sway window manager. do i have to start pipewire from sway? | 19:57 |
| dongle | nevermind. got it | 20:07 |
| brocashelm | systemdlete: probably portmaster? https://safing.io | 21:10 |
| brocashelm | it's not packaged for debian, but there exists official deb files | 21:11 |
| systemdlete | brocashelm, thanks! I'll take a look | 21:14 |
| systemdlete | freemium | 21:16 |
| brocashelm | how about fwbuilder then? | 21:30 |
| systemdlete | well, brocashelm, I'm not 100% against using freemium (think: I use vbox, don't I? LOL) | 21:45 |
| systemdlete | vbox is not freemium, but it is not precisely open source | 21:45 |
| systemdlete | fwbuilder? | 21:45 |
| systemdlete | ok | 21:46 |
| systemdlete | I only have 2 requirements. It is under current support and doesn't interact with our arch nemesis | 21:46 |
| systemdlete | if fwbuilder checks those boxes, I am open to it | 21:46 |
| fsmithred | arno-iptables-firewall is pretty simple with debconf interface. | 21:47 |
| systemdlete | there are several with a TUI, but I would prefer a GUI. | 21:48 |
| systemdlete | (I think vuurmuur might be one) | 21:48 |
| brocashelm | systemdlete: up to you. i just use what works for me. this whole "free/libre software" stopped being about freedom with things like systemd and freedesktop being shoved in everyone's faces | 21:57 |
| AlexLikeRock | timedatectl list-timezones | 21:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | what remplace "timedatectl" ? | 21:58 |
| brocashelm | have you tried ntp? | 21:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes. i have | 21:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | but the time are grong | 21:59 |
| brocashelm | i use "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata" to set the right time zone | 21:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | thanks | 21:59 |
| brocashelm | yw | 22:00 |
| AlexLikeRock | bash: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found | 22:00 |
| AlexLikeRock | O.O | 22:00 |
| fsmithred | are you root? | 22:00 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes... | 22:01 |
| fsmithred | use 'su -' instead of 'su' | 22:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok | 22:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | YESSS! | 22:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | dpkg-reconfigure tzdata | 22:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | Current default time zone: 'Etc/GMT-7' | 22:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | Local time is now: Tue Jul 30 03:02:18 +07 2024. | 22:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | my zone are -7 | 22:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | they change time to 3:02 | 22:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | but at my celphone are 1:02 | 22:04 |
| brocashelm | try using ntpdate next | 22:05 |
| brocashelm | example: ntpdate -s ntp.ubuntu.com | 22:05 |
| brocashelm | that should sync with an ntp server | 22:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | well. | 22:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | i use other city neighbor | 22:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | "America/Ensenada' | 22:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | thanks | 22:11 |
| fsmithred | did ntpdate work? | 22:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | its not intaled | 22:12 |
| brocashelm | install it | 22:12 |
| AlexLikeRock | dpkg-reconfigure tzdata toher city | 22:12 |
| AlexLikeRock | maybe the problem its "summer saving time" | 22:13 |
| cc0a3hr | if i refuse to install non-free firmwares, will it cause problems? im planning to install on thinkpad t430 | 22:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | hi o/ cc0a3hr i have thinkpad too | 22:13 |
| cc0a3hr | o/ | 22:13 |
| brocashelm | likely lose wifi access if you don't install from non-free-firmware | 22:13 |
| brocashelm | but other than that, you should be ok | 22:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | most of chips of IBM LENOVO work fine withou privative-firmware | 22:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | whitout * | 22:14 |
| cc0a3hr | perfect. | 22:14 |
| fsmithred | AlexLikeRock, ntpdate will know what to do with summer time changes | 22:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | cc0a3hr, take a look your hardware https://h-node.org | 22:16 |
| cc0a3hr | AlexLikeRock: site not loading | 22:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | dam! | 22:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | me too | 22:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | its down 1 | 22:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | its down ! | 22:20 |
| cc0a3hr | i blame the russians for this | 22:20 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: might have spilled through from another program you installed. not that it should be happening ever, i agree, but once a similar thing happened to me in ceres when i used the built-in menu option in blender to browse (browse mind you, not even actually install or use!) the community resources library. the next time i launched firefox i got... i forget, some full-screen obviously-integrated-feature ad for | 22:20 |
| gnarface | something clearly related to non-free blender primitives | 22:21 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: the two obvious takeaways were that 1) some sort of colluding was happening directly between the firefox and blender developers to make this happen; the ad was launched using a built-in firefox feature with no intermediary websites or ad networks involved | 22:22 |
| gnarface | fluffywolf: and 2) debian policy was definitely being violated, as these were both programs from main, not non-free | 22:22 |
| gnarface | i never followed up to see if it happens in stable too after that, but i fear what i might discover would undermine all the trust left in debian | 22:23 |
| gnarface | (and mozilla, if there is any) | 22:23 |
| cc0a3hr | if you really care about it, you should care about totally free kernel too, linux-libre | 22:25 |
| cc0a3hr | what do you think | 22:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes ! | 22:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Linux-libre | 22:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | the blue pinguin | 22:25 |
| cc0a3hr | haha yes | 22:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | cc0a3hr, https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=3a7df4ea17 | 22:27 |
| cc0a3hr | so we can say, it works | 22:28 |
| AlexLikeRock | apt install cpu-x | 22:29 |
| brocashelm | there's a devuan respin you could try that is all libre: gnuinos | 22:32 |
| brocashelm | it also uses its own amprolla repo url so that it's harder to get proprietary software accidentally installed | 22:33 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes : gnu-Linux = GNUinos | 22:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | GNUSENSE | 22:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | trinsquel = https://trisquel.info/ | 22:46 |
| AlexLikeRock | an OS 100% freedom | 22:46 |
| cc0a3hr | free but i wonder if it causes problems | 22:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | coool! : https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=547a248361 devuan working at iMAC | 22:56 |
| AlexLikeRock | https://www.gnu.org/ its down ? | 23:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | whats happen with DNS ??? many problems of conetion | 23:03 |
| gnarface | looks like it's down | 23:06 |
| gnarface | i don't think it's the DNS either | 23:06 |
| paculino | Gnuinos also changes a little bit besides just the libre-only https://debdistutils.gitlab.io/debdistdiff/gnuinos-vs-devuan/ | 23:06 |
| paculino | I'm not sure why, but that and the time to switch over are why I keep procrastinating on it | 23:06 |
| gnarface | let's take that conversation to #devuan-offtopic | 23:06 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok, gnarface | 23:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | But I find it strange that several pages that talk about free software and sharing music are slowly falling. | 23:07 |
| paculino | gnu went down a few weeks ago too | 23:09 |
| systemdlete | brocashelm, fwbuilder seems to be in devt, but the last release is from... 6 years ago? | 23:23 |
| systemdlete | Then again, gufw is not exactly shiny new either. | 23:23 |
| Guest10 | Hello, I was wondering if Devuan is a valuable distro nowadays. | 23:49 |
| djph | yes. | 23:50 |
| Guest10 | Okay ima gonna install it then, thanks ! | 23:52 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
