| onefang | I recently switched to Psi-plus + biboumi XMPP to IRC bridge for IRC. Previously I was using HexChat for IRC and Psi-plus for XMPP. But there's some problems. The good thing is one single IM client on the IM monitor. | 02:21 |
|---|---|---|
| onefang | To start with it didn't let me know that the IRC connection failed last night, and didn't try to reconnect. | 02:22 |
| onefang | There's ne "last time you where in this message tab you had read up to here" line, I thought there was. lol | 02:22 |
| onefang | I have to manually type in my IRC password. | 02:23 |
| onefang | When I connect to all the #devuan channels, I get "2 events recieved", when I click on that it shows me the #devuan-riscv tab, the other event is #devuan-dev. No clue why those always trigger events. The event notification wont go away until someone else says something in those channels. | 02:24 |
| onefang | Mostly just minor annoyances, except for not knowing the connection went away. | 02:25 |
| onefang | I would use pidgin if it had a single window mode. | 02:26 |
| darwin | having trouble running Thunderbird 78.9.1 (I need for UNIX MoveMail/mailspool for mail from root)... after I restarted, I get a mostly-blank window I can't do anything... do I need different version (older?) of some library it depends on, or have they finally restored MoveMail as planned years ago? | 03:06 |
| gnarface | darwin: which release of devaun are you on? | 03:55 |
| gnarface | *devuan | 03:55 |
| darwin | 5 | 04:00 |
| gnarface | darwin: 78 is pretty old to be running on such a late release, i have to assume there's library incompatibilities. maybe if you tried rebuilding it though... | 04:01 |
| darwin | ok | 04:02 |
| gnarface | i can't tell you if the later versions have the features you want, but it might be worth trying the version that's actually in devuan 5 | 04:02 |
| gnarface | ... if only to exhaust the possibility | 04:02 |
| darwin | they don't | 04:03 |
| darwin | thanks | 04:04 |
| onefang | Ah those odd events psi-plus + biboumi is sending me are when those two channels ChanServ +V's me. | 04:33 |
| onefang | Damn, had to reboot just now coz disk / RAM goblin fell over, and I was just about to upgrade the kernel. Oh well, more rebooting soon. | 04:35 |
| onefang | Reboot time. Hopefully last for the day / week / month / ... | 04:46 |
| onefang | So far, so good. Kernel 6.9.7-1 now. B-) | 04:54 |
| rwp | As long as the kernel that is installed boots and supports the hardware with drivers and supports the C library with system calls then the version of the kernel does not matter. | 06:16 |
| darwin | i need Python 3.9 to build old Thunderbird (for UNIX MoveMail that was removed and not restored yet)... any way I can get that other than run Devuan older than 5? | 08:08 |
| gnarface | you mean python 2.9? | 08:09 |
| gnarface | or 2.6 even? | 08:09 |
| gnarface | i would try a chroot | 08:10 |
| gnarface | if you put it on your main system it'll inevitably break something important, the system relies heavily on python | 08:10 |
| gnarface | but you can do pretty much whatever you want in a chroot without risking the main install | 08:11 |
| darwin | no; 3.9 | 08:11 |
| darwin | something was removed after 3.9 | 08:11 |
| gnarface | well, that doesn't change my advice | 08:12 |
| darwin | well how do I setup chroot of Devuan 5 but that has Python 3.9? | 08:12 |
| darwin | or on a server | 08:13 |
| gnarface | well, if you do a chroot you could easily make it chimaera | 08:13 |
| gnarface | which had 3.9 | 08:13 |
| darwin | but then how would the package I build run on Devuan 5? | 08:13 |
| gnarface | that's only one release older, so the kernel version discrepancy probably won't be an issue | 08:13 |
| gnarface | wouldn't matter, you could just run the chimaera one from the chroot without needing to rebuild | 08:14 |
| darwin | that's too complicated. I don't think Thunderbird even uses Python other than for build | 08:14 |
| darwin | it's C or something | 08:14 |
| gnarface | if you're actually gonna build it, obviously you'd have to force a python 3.9 install on the daedalus chroot, which might be doable without rebuilding python itself and might not, but either way that's more complicated | 08:15 |
| darwin | i see | 08:15 |
| gnarface | and there's no guarantee it'll work without patching thunderbird itself | 08:15 |
| gnarface | i've gone down this type of road before and often what you run into are fundamental glibc incompatibilities | 08:16 |
| gnarface | ...so then you have to recursively crawl through the dependency tree, rebuilding all of them, and by the time you've replaced the entire system you realize you might as well have just run the other release version | 08:16 |
| darwin | i see... maybe I should just learn to use it in a chroot then | 08:16 |
| darwin | is 'preempt=voluntary' loaded or I have to load it? | 08:17 |
| gnarface | uh... not sure what that is | 08:17 |
| darwin | like set kernel to responsiveness for desktop instead of server | 08:17 |
| darwin | most GNU/Linux OS distributions don't set this and leave it on setting for server | 08:18 |
| gnarface | ah, i forget, but your kernel configs are in /boot/, you can check them | 08:18 |
| gnarface | for x86 in Debian and derivatives, there is no separate kernel for desktops and servers, so whatever the setting it, everyone has it the same | 08:18 |
| gnarface | *whatever the setting is | 08:19 |
| gnarface | alternately you could run a whole chimaera install in a VM like qemu or the like, but the chroot is lighter on system resources and easier to do i think | 08:20 |
| gnarface | though qemu is probably more secure, in this case the practical difference is probably negligible | 08:20 |
| gnarface | i'll be afk for a bit, but try to stay connected in case anyone else has a better idea | 08:22 |
| darwin | i'll use debootstrap | 08:22 |
| darwin | there's no security concern here | 08:22 |
| darwin | well I couldn't run it in chroot because despite I set 'DISPLAY=:0' before 'chroot', that wasn't detected (don't have this problem in *BSD & Slackware) | 09:07 |
| darwin | of course I did 'xhost +localhost' in chroot | 09:08 |
| rrq | try also: mount --bind /tmp/.X11-unix $chroot/tmp/.X11-unix | 09:44 |
| rrq | maybe need to create the directory | 09:44 |
| rrq | darwin: ^^ | 09:46 |
| rrq | the point is that X11 has it's display socket for :0.0 at /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 | 09:47 |
| darwin | i did that. Now thunderbird just says "Couldn't find the application directory." | 09:52 |
| darwin | running it in a chroot also defeats the purpose--I want system mail from my main installation in Thunderbird | 09:53 |
| darwin | not from the chroot--useless | 09:53 |
| rrq | maybe you meant to bind-mount /home/$user as well ? | 09:53 |
| darwin | i bind-mounted /home/user/.thunderbird | 09:53 |
| rrq | right, but /home/user/.thunderbird is not installed in the chroot | 09:54 |
| darwin | i created it | 09:54 |
| rrq | maybe you rather wanted amn overlyfs | 09:54 |
| darwin | not really | 09:54 |
| rrq | sorry I haven't followed what the issue is, so maybe ignore me is better :) | 09:55 |
| darwin | ThunderBird removed UNIX MoveMail and promised to restore it but that was in 2022 | 09:56 |
| darwin | i need to check the mail for root in Thunderbird | 09:56 |
| darwin | they admitted they did it in an unprofessional way, removing people's accounts/mail with no notification or transition | 09:56 |
| darwin | this was considered a major issue on old-style GNU/Linux at the time, with most the complaints coming from Debian (of course also Slackware, etc.) | 09:58 |
| rrq | I stopped using thunderbird some years ago. but the emails were stored in mbox files I think | 09:58 |
| darwin | i had /usr/local/lib/thunderbird (v78.9.1) which today stopped showing much in its windows--unusable--due to some incompatibility | 09:59 |
| darwin | i considered GNOME Evolution but it's resource-hungry and second-rate, doesn't have most the plugins Thunderbird does | 09:59 |
| rrq | I shifted to using mutt in terminal which, once I learnt enough, works spendidly. | 10:01 |
| rrq | l | 10:01 |
| darwin | i used to use ((re-)al)pine) | 10:02 |
| darwin | that was easier for me than mutt, and was okay in the 1990s. Now most email I get has graphics | 10:06 |
| darwin | i used Claws and Evolution a while but they're not as good | 10:08 |
| cousin_luigi | Thunderbird is the only mail application that has never eaten my data. | 11:12 |
| joerg | worldwide IT down thanks to fubar CrowdStrike update for windows. BSOD deadlock. Start protected mode, delete c:\windows\system32\drivers\crowdstrike\C-00000291*.sys | 11:13 |
| cousin_luigi | What the heck is this Crowdstrike I read about?? | 11:27 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/YTGMsyM.jpeg from https://www.heise.de/news/Weltweiter-IT-Ausfall-Flughaefen-Banken-und-Geschaefte-betroffen-9806343.html probably from login-walled https://supportportal.crowdstrike.com/s/article/Tech-Alert-Windows-crashes-related-to-Falcon-Sensor-2024-07-19 | 11:31 |
| joerg | cousin_luigi: I have no idea, no windows here :-) | 11:32 |
| onefang | And waaaay off topic. | 11:35 |
| joerg | not exactly, when worldwide infra goes down | 11:39 |
| joerg | we're at least inclusive enough to drop a warning to our users, no? ;-) | 11:39 |
| cousin_luigi | joerg: One could say we are experiencing Schadenfreude. | 12:22 |
| joerg | not really, this hurts all of us | 12:24 |
| joerg | anyway watch your local news TV channel, they should cover it | 12:25 |
| opv | Hi all. I have just installed Devuan with runit and am having trouble enabling services with it, so I'd like to switch back to sysv. Could you tell me how to do this without rendering the system unbootable? Thank you very much. | 19:29 |
| gnarface | opv: well, you should make sure you have a live iso or the installer to use as a recovery disk just in case this doesn't work, but i think you can just install: sysv-rc, sysvinit, sysvinit-core, and sysvinit-utils. make sure you check what it's gonna remove to make sure it doesn't remove anything important | 19:32 |
| gnarface | that said, runit is supposed to be really easy to enable services with | 19:35 |
| gnarface | you probably just have to write a short file for each one | 19:36 |
| opv | gnarface: Confirmed success, thank you. Yeah, it's not too important tbh, I need this to "just work". | 19:37 |
| gnarface | understandable, and for the most part sysvinit is the one that will do that the most often for you... however even it is under assault these days by vandalism upstream, so if you end up missing a startup script for something in it as well, check the "orphaned-sysvinit-scripts" package for it | 19:39 |
| gnarface | sorry, "orphan-sysvinit-scripts" to be exact | 19:40 |
| opv | Gotcha, thanks for the heads-up. How's OpenRC nowadays? I know it from Alpine, might be a safe bet | 19:40 |
| gnarface | we're still using the debian setup of openrc, which still piggybacks on sysvinit's init scripts | 19:40 |
| gnarface | you might have better luck with it than runit, but most openrc advocates don't actually like how it's setup and prefer to gut it and replace it with the more traditional one | 19:41 |
| gnarface | right now sysvinit is still the one with the most support | 19:42 |
| opv | Anything but systemd, whose use I consider irresponsible since the xz thing | 19:42 |
| opv | Being able to hotswap is great, I'll just ride sysv for the time being | 19:42 |
| gnarface | did you do a reboot test to make sure it's all working right? | 19:43 |
| gnarface | like i said, make sure you have something as a recovery disk on hand just in case | 19:44 |
| gnarface | should be fine but i'm not 100% sure | 19:44 |
| opv | No, is completely fine | 19:45 |
| opv | I'm slightly rustled by the usage of slim which arch wiki says is unmaintained for a long time | 19:45 |
| gnarface | it's just the default, you can replace it with something else | 19:46 |
| opv | Shame, cause I like its style. Maybe LightDM is more appropriate? | 19:46 |
| gnarface | well, i've generally had better luck with lightdm and it's usually the first thing i advise trying if you run into problems with slim | 19:46 |
| gnarface | personally i don't use a graphical login myself, though sometimes use xdm on shared machines | 19:46 |
| opv | You manually startx? | 19:47 |
| gnarface | yea | 19:47 |
| opv | To avoid the bloat? | 19:47 |
| gnarface | and bugs | 19:47 |
| opv | Attack surface yadda yadda | 19:47 |
| gnarface | mostly just the bugs and bloat | 19:47 |
| opv | yeah | 19:47 |
| opv | I'm totally with you on that one | 19:48 |
| gnarface | when i started doing this, there weren't as many options, and when there were many options, they were very buggy | 19:48 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | Installed devuan Daedalus from the X-based installed, it did not apparently install any boot blocks/mbr. I know the system worked under proxmox [which had very poor ethernet drivers, but booted ] | 20:41 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | What's the simplest way from the livecd to remedy the lack of bootblocks. | 20:41 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | ? | 20:41 |
| gnarface | muad_dib_whyIsMy: depends on unknowns... which installer actually did you use (by filename please, so there's no confusion) and do you know if your system requires uefi/secure boot? | 20:43 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | has no (u)efi, etc. Just bios. devuan_daedalus_5.0.0_amd64_minimal-live.iso booted, and ran the desktop installer, picked the correct disk, sda, partitioned, left a /boot of ~128 MB or so at the start of the disk. disklabel was of 'dos' type, figuring it would be safest for bios which is a known picky-eater. | 20:52 |
| gnarface | hmm, odd, i wonder why that didn't work then | 20:53 |
| gnarface | though to be honest, in my experience it's uefi that's more picky | 20:53 |
| gnarface | anyway, in theory you should be able to just chroot into the install disk from the live iso and re-run "grub-install" | 20:53 |
| gnarface | are you booted into the live iso now? i can walk you through it | 20:54 |
| gnarface | oh, for what it's worth i would have recommended using the netinstall iso... the minimal live is weird, but either of them can get you a minimal install | 20:54 |
| gnarface | the netinstall is just the more standard traditional one (the netinstall is based directly on debian's traditionally advised netinstall, while the minimal live one is made here in-house and is intended more for diagnostics) | 20:55 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | I'm not in front of the system right now, but thought I'd find out what the remedy is. I'll try the grub-install. I don't suppose the system started SSHD! | 20:56 |
| gnarface | i think you'll want to make sure you have some grub packages installed in the chroot before you run it, i think, these: grub grub-common grub-pc grub-pc-bin grub2-common | 20:56 |
| gnarface | (that list might vary depending on your specific hardware architecture though) | 20:57 |
| gnarface | the important part about getting the chroot right is a bunch of bind mounts you have to make first before you do any of the other steps, so if you're not experienced with this make sure to ask for the right steps, you don't want to gloss over that part | 20:58 |
| gnarface | - that reminds me, if darwin comes back i think he was missing a couple bind mounts to make that thunderbird thing work, someone tell him to stop pulling the eject handle so fast | 21:05 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | which mounts ? | 21:06 |
| muad_dib_whyIsMy | in /dev ? | 21:06 |
| gnarface | muad_dib_whyIsMy: specifically in my experience, you need to bind mount /proc, /sys, /dev and /dev/pts from the chroot to the host's. (some or all of these may not be necessary for every task, particularly /dev/pts, but what does and doesn't need some of them is not as clear to me as that this is a superset which usually catches everything) | 21:09 |
| gnarface | note that since /dev/pts is inside the /dev bind mount, you'll have to mount it after /dev, and unmount it before /dev | 21:10 |
| gnarface | you mount all 4 of those, then chroot in, and you should be able to run grub-install as though you were already booted in normally | 21:11 |
| gnarface | you miss one of those and it might just do something stupid like install grub to your usb key instead | 21:11 |
| gnarface | or install grub to the right disk but get the disk #'s wrong and still not work | 21:12 |
| gnarface | none of this explains why it didn't work normally by default, i can only assume some weird bug with the minimal-live iso, which just isn't as well tested as the netinstall | 21:12 |
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