libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2024-05-11

gnarfacensprra: whatever it is, it's something optional because i don't have it00:01
nsprrausing Xorg for your windowing?00:03
nsprrait looks like wlroots insists on this stuff, but i'm not sure00:03
nsprraoh sorry /run/user/100000:08
nsprraheh almost bit down on a little rock that got into my peas00:14
nsprrayeah setting up /run/user/1000 didn't fix the wlroots crash00:14
nsprramaybe it's this libpolkit stuff i should purge00:15
nsprrathat sounds like bureaucracy to me00:15
gnarfacensprra: i'm not sure, it rings a bell but i don't have either path here. yes, i am using Xorg though and not libpolkit, and btw /var/run is just a symlink to /run00:22
nsprramaybe i can purge the polkit stuff00:23
gnarfacehmm, nsprra just checked another system and found it. it might be related to polkit or elogind...00:23
nsprraif i didn't need it 20 years ago, it's likely just causing me problems00:23
gnarfacewell it might be part of the graphical login setup, so you might have to ditch all of it00:24
gnarfaceand just use startx (or whever the wayland equivalent is)00:24
nsprrai boot to console always00:24
gnarfaceoh, then you most likely don't need elogind either00:24
nsprralet's try that then, purging libelogind0, libpolkit-agent-1-0, libpolkit-gobject-1-000:26
nsprraerror loading shared libraries libsystemd.so.000:26
gnarfaceuh, you might actually need libelogind0, just not elogind00:26
gnarfaceall the polkit packages you can purge, but libelogind is attached to a ton of packages00:27
nsprraah that has a libelogind-compat that got upgraded00:27
gnarfaceit should be harmless without elogind itself installed and running, though00:27
nsprraah sway pulls in elogind and that stuff00:28
nsprraso to get libsystemd.so.0 apt-file says i need either libelogind0 or libsystemd000:29
gnarfacelibelogind0 is the one you want, that's the devaun fork00:30
nsprrakind of you gnarface, thanks00:31
gnarfacenp00:32
nsprrayeah it's not providing libsystemd0 anywhere after installing libelogind0:amd64 (255.5-2)00:34
nsprrabut apt-file says it should be00:34
gnarfacedo you have both libelogind0:amd64 and libelogind-compat:amd64?00:35
nsprralibelogind-compat is not installed (Apt-Manual-Installed: no)00:36
gnarfacei think you need them both, and if you're trying to do something multi-arch don't forget libelogind0:i386 and libelogind-compat:i386 too'00:36
nsprrahm but apt-cache show says installed-size: 1800:36
gnarfacerun "ldconfig" then relog?00:37
nsprradpkg -l |grep elogind shows libelogind-compat:amd64 255.5-2 is installed00:37
nsprrak will try that00:37
gnarfacethis is daedalus, right?00:37
nsprrabase system daedalus but had to pull in some newer things for wlroots and wayfire so that might be a problem00:38
nsprramaybe i should clean house to pure daedalus packages and build anything newer myself00:39
nsprrai lived many years happy as a clam in sid / ceres00:40
nsprrabut no dist-upgrades or upgrades00:40
nsprrajust pulling things in as needed00:40
nsprrathat generally meant i could compile against newish libraries, contribute to projects00:41
gnarfacewhere did you get the newer stuff from? daedalus-backports?00:41
nsprrafrom ceres00:42
gnarfacecould be the problem, yea00:42
gnarfaceyou're not supposed to mix releases like that00:42
nsprraok ty00:43
gnarfaceyou can use daedalus-backports, or you can backport it yourself, but just installing packages from other releases directly causes weird issues in the worst way, which is just barely less often than it would take to be obviously a mistake00:43
nsprrathanks i hadn't tried this before00:44
gnarfaceas in, usually it works initially and it's not obvious how stuff broke00:44
gnarfacethen later something weird is happening and since it's months later you have no idea why00:44
gnarface(not that daedalus-backports is entirely drama free either, and i'd recommend only getting the bare minimum from there and resisting the urge to do a full upgrade of all backported packages, but at least they've tested them)00:45
gnarface(individually, anyway)00:45
nsprraack00:45
nsprrais the /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0 a symlink to libelogind.so.0 ?00:50
nsprraapt-file says that libsystemd.so.0 is provided by libelogind0 but there's no such file in there, so it must get created by a postinst symlink, or something00:51
gnarfaceseems to be, yes00:51
gnarfaceyou can tell with "ls -l"00:52
nsprrathe link isn't getting created here00:52
gnarfacehmm, troubling00:52
gnarfaceare your libsystemd packages all gone?00:53
nsprrawell you know the likely cause00:53
nsprrathat mix-n-matching00:53
gnarfaceyea, maybe00:53
nsprraaccording to dpkg -l there's no libsystemd stuff installed.  and find doesn't find any00:53
gnarfacedepending on what you installed from ceres it might not be so far gone that you can't just install the right versions and reboot once to make it work00:54
gnarfaceor you could just create the symlink manually and hope for the best... :)00:54
joerghttps://termbin.com/za6z00:58
nsprracute :)00:59
nsprramy brain isn't working. so that's um "tail recursion"?01:00
fsmithredIn ceres it would be /usr/lib/whatever instead of /lib/whatever01:36
nsprraaha if you eever need to make apt forget about those newer packages it saw in ceres, you can rm -Rf /var/lib/apt/lists/* and then apt update again01:43
nsprralearning by breaking things can be fun if you're not on a deadling.01:44
fsmithredlol01:46
fsmithredfwiw, my ceres no-dbus has libelogind0 and seatd01:47
fsmithredno kits01:47
fsmithredno dbus (just libdbus)01:47
fsmithredno display manager, just startx to run openbox01:47
fsmithredand no /run/user01:48
golinuxnsprra: Have you seen this? Why are systemd files present in Devuan? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=192501:57
golinuxThat was a long time ago but IIUC some systemd files are needed not for systemd itself but so that devuan can replace them with something else.02:00
golinuxI am also still on chimaera and the landscape is different in daedalus and beyond.02:02
nsprrawell the devuan minimal installer goes to unbootable install with a dual-gpu setup, i think.13:03
nsprrai might have to pull the pcie card then add it later13:03
nsprratried editing the grub default with nomodeset but that didn't help13:04
coppolai also got a lot of kernel panics when trying to use that image some weeks ago13:11
gnarfaceyou sure it's unbootable, or is maybe the display output just not working?13:26
nsprrai understand the question gnarface.  i'll try to get a serial console setup someday.16:05
nsprrabut my issue is solved by installing with only 1 GPU present16:06
CueXXIIInsprra: have you tried removing the vga=... from the boot cmdline?16:11
CueXXIIIand i would suggest no "nomodeset"16:12
nsprra++16:14
nsprrai didn't recall seeing a vga=16:14
CueXXIIIwhich version of the installer did you use? stable/daedalus?16:17
nsprradaedalus16:19
nsprrai can install and get booting with pulled nvidia card, just running amd integrated graphics processor16:20
CueXXIIIah, i only have the daedalus netinstall here, and that one boots with "vga=788"16:20
nsprramhm16:21
nsprrai was happy ceres user but now there's too much breakenings so i'm trying to change my ways to deadalus16:22
nsprrai'll see if i can stay in daedalus and just compile whatever needs to be newer16:24
nsprrado you work like that?16:24
nsprrablap16:24
CueXXIIInah, that sounds boring xD16:25
nsprrahave you usrmerged ?16:26
CueXXIIIyeah, since debian gave up on a seperate / that can be used to mount /usr long ago16:27
CueXXIIIi figured keeping /usr seperate does no longer have any purpose16:27
nsprrai think there's a case to be made for a barebones root system, to bring-up system, and a /usr for all the applications16:28
nsprrathere's a valid conceptual distinction between OS and applications, though grey at the edges16:28
nsprranot just bring-up but bring-up and admin the hardware16:28
nsprrabeyond that, i agree16:28
CueXXIIIi have /usr on lvm and used to boot without initrd. i don't know if udev or lvm started linking against libraries in /usr, breaking that setup, and no one wanted to fix that16:30
CueXXIIIthe only reason for having a seperate /usr imho would be do have ~root not on the same partition as /usr, but then i could move that to /home/root16:33
nsprrait's nothing to get sussed about. imo.16:34
CueXXIIIhm, daedalus 5.0.0 minimal live has either vga=auto or vga=normal on the commandline… sounds way more reasonable than 78816:38
nsprramy DEC Vt-100 broke due to condensation in winter16:39
CueXXIIIF16:40
nsprrasomeone was selling a vt-420 near me but 600 Euro is a bit steep for a toy like that16:41
* Xenguy whispers '420' ...16:41
nsprraor was it a vt-340...16:42
nsprrabest day16:42
CueXXIIIi still would not suggest inhaling the smokes from a broken vt-420… (#devuan-offtopic)16:42
nsprrashould i pick sddm or slim?16:44
CueXXIIIi've been on lightdm for years, should not matter for single local logins anyways16:47
nsprrai was a boot to console guy, a gui is a userspace level of helpful floof.  now with these 'seats' and 'sessions' that model is becoming mandatory16:51
nsprra'the conveniences you once demanded are now mandatory' - Jello Biafra, 198416:51
nsprrawell now they break with multi-gpu.  hooray fragility.  beatings.16:51
nsprrathere we go daedalus desktop installed no problems, but doesn't detect 4k monitor correctly.16:54
nsprraxrandr only sees 1024x768 as available16:59
CueXXIIIsounds like an issue with the graphics driver… a) wayland or xorg? in case of xorg, look at /var/lig/Xorg.0.log17:00
nsprrait's using fbdev17:02
CueXXIIIoh, fbdev is just baseline for any graphics card…17:03
nsprraamdgpu is loaded but xorg didn't see /dev/dri/card017:03
nsprrai don't have any recollection what could be the cause hmm17:04
nsprranothing unusual in cat /proc/cmdline17:05
CueXXIIIyou might need firmware-amd-graphics (from firmware-nonfree)17:05
nsprrawhat happened to /var/log/messages17:05
CueXXIIIrsyslog (8.2210.0-3) happened to it17:06
nsprraok this is odd17:07
nsprrai can't apt install after install17:07
nsprraMedia change: please insert the disc labeled 'Devuan gnu/lINU...'17:07
nsprrai guess i selected installation media in the installer thinking it might need that17:08
nsprraok yeah the firmware-amd-graphics is needed17:09
nsprrayep thanks CueXXIII 4k display now17:09
Weeezyit seems like netinstall is the best. I just installed from the dvd and it seems to have issues17:10
nsprrayeah if the installer puts the cdrom as a source just comment it out in /etc/apt/sources.list17:10
nsprrabeautiful selection of default apps in devuan desktop. good job17:11
nsprrahowever remove those .desktop icons from the devuan minimal installer, that was an oversight.17:11
Weeezymy ufw fails to start on startup, I can see it faults with not being able to find a certain config file. but I am not sure what file contains that ufw initialization command17:19
nsprrawow only pulling 56 watts from the wall.  i love amd undervolting17:22
XenguyWeeezy, tried dpkg -L ufw18:11
Xenguy?18:11
Weeezyoh, I'll try that Xenguy18:17
Weeezythanks18:17
WeeezyI got a phone call but I was just sitting down to look again18:18
rwpI am not a huge fan of ufw but I would try purging it off and then installing it again.  That should get it into a clean state.18:18
rwpYou can dump the current state with "ufw status verbose" (pretty sure that's the command)18:18
Weeezyyes, the last few days I've taken a few steps to purge and get things fresh18:20
Weeezythat's why I think there is an old entry in the boot up18:20
WeeezyI'll have to reboot.18:24
rwpIn order to test if ufw starts at boot time?18:24
Weeezyyes, that's the goal. I know it hasn't been. so the system has been vulnerable18:25
rwpThe OS is pretty resilient normally.  I always run a firewall on public systems in order to add another layer of protection.  But not having one is not instant problem as such.18:26
rwpFor example often the rpcbind rpcservices is running for various reasons that should never be needed on a public machine.  If I don't catch that then having the firewall blocks access to it.18:27
Xenguyrwp, Yeah, I would choose another firewall if I had specific requirements, but as a 'generic firewall', ufw seems to work fine18:29
XenguyEasy to set up18:29
rwpI have long preferred Shorewall because it is set up with files.  Easy to copy those files to a new system.  Whereas I don't like paradigms like ufw (and the EFF Certbot) which require a sequence of commands to be run.18:30
XenguyShorewall is what I used to run previously, and I quite liked it18:30
XenguyNowadays I have no special requirements, so I just use ufw to blocking incoming18:31
rwpI feel like with a configuration file I install it is always going to be reliably the same on multiple systems.  But with needing to run a sequence of commands I feel more like I am crafting a clay bowl on a pottery wheel one at a time each one different.18:31
XenguyYeah, ufw is more just a basic firewall if you don't have many special config requirements I suppose18:32
rwpI don't think wanting a repeatable configuration is a special need though.18:32
rwpshorewall is fully independent dual stack and not sure of the future ten years from now.  ufw handles both stacks merged and is definitely alive and supported moving forward.18:34
rwpSo I have been "tolerating" using ufw on the systems-not-mine that I sysadmin upon so that it is what other people know how to work with already.18:34
XenguyAgreed.  I'm on the lookout for a good transition to nftables, but I'm in no rush.  Too bad shorewall is not going to traverse that transition.18:37
nsprrathe devuan round-robin server stuff works great.  wonderful to not have to care about mirrors18:38
rwpThe maintainer has done such a super job of maintaining shorewall all of these years.  But he, like the rest of us, is becoming old.  He wants to retire out of it.  It's endlessly tiring.18:38
rwpnsprra, Glad you are getting good use out of the round-robin dns servers!  I am in a less than great area for them and here it round robins all around the planet.18:39
rwpDid it work on this reboot?18:40
Weeezynot yet. one more reboot18:42
Xenguyrwp, Too bad there wasn't someone who could adopt Shorewall, and transition it to nftables18:50
XenguyThat would be something18:50
rwpIn between when they said the Linux kernel was changing to nftables and obsoleting iptables someone came along and changed things so that iptables produces nftable data internally to the kernel.  So...  There is no need to move anymore.  It's all the same.18:51
XenguyYeah, I heard tell of this translation layer, which sounds rather genius18:52
XenguyBut I do wonder why iptables wasn't good enough in the first place, or what nftables offers that iptables doesn't provide18:53
rwpRight.  When I have compared features I can't find anything that is more than an input file syntax difference.  But I admit I haven't looked much beyond my basic needs for it.18:54
XenguyI'll keep an eye out, and feel free to do the same.  It's curious when these transitions happen yet we're not sure why.18:55
nsprradevuan is just a joy for me.19:00
nsprrait's all i want and need within minutes.  unless i go about faffing with the stuff i don't need19:01
nsprraam very grateful to all who made it possible19:01
nsprraadwaita-dark: already installed and working. YES. thanks.19:02
nsprraincluded bsdgames.  how rightesous.  hunt.  omega-rpg.19:10
rustyaxeWhere did virt-manager go in testing?19:18
XenguyDevuan seems to me like what Debian should have been19:20
rustyaxeyou mean what debian was before it became infected? ;)19:44
fsmithredrustyaxe, virt-manager 1:4.1.0-4 is in ceres19:50
rustyaxeYea it was in /testing up til a recent update when it disappeared leaving me without access to the windows vm :o19:51
rustyaxei rarely use that so just now noticing. apt search doesnt find a trace of it; dpkg -l doesnt show config remnants. Strange19:51
fsmithredrustyaxe, add a line to sources.list for ceres and pin it to a low priority. Then you can selectively install stuff from it easily.20:08
rustyaxe python3-libvirt : Depends: libvirt0 (>= 10.2.0) but 10.0.0-1devuan1 is to be installed20:51
* rustyaxe uninstalls the whole lot of it and tries again20:52
rustyaxethere we go20:54
rustyaxefsmithred: thanks. is it often things go missing in testing like that? I've never encountered it that i recall20:56
kainxkitsunehows it going? trying devuan daedalus (via  peppermintOS) for the first time,  liking it so far got i3 and some other stuff going. but despite having non-free in the sources list on the apt repo i can't seem to install the nvidia-driver package just tells me it has non install candidate anyone got ideas? have a  quadro Fx 1500m22:51
nsprrai think daedalus pulls 525.147  is the quadro supported by that driver?23:01
nsprrapretty sure of that, as i'm doing it now23:01
kainxkitsunei believe so yeah23:03
kainxkitsuneoh i looked at it acording to nvidias site that driver doesn't show the 1500M listed. i do see ones like the K1200 hmm also I suppose it may be releavent that I am running 32 bit23:05
kainxkitsunethis machine is a dell m9023:05
kainxkitsuneI may need a 304  era driver23:06
nsprrayep23:11
nsprrawell i just failed to install nvidia as well23:13
nsprraerror with nvidia-persistenced.23:13
golinuxNote that all software shipped with Devuan in the main component is free software. But if needed, non-free software is also available. Just add the non-free-firmware, non-free and contrib components to the appropriate line(s) in /etc/apt/sources.list as required:23:14
golinuxdeb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus main non-free-firmware non-free contrib23:14
golinuxSource: https://www.devuan.org/os/packages23:14
kainxkitsunethe sources list is already set like that with non free23:14
nsprrayeah this chat is really #devuan-offtopic23:14
golinux non-free-firmware also23:14
golinux?23:14
kainxkitsuneit has both yes23:15
nsprramaybe23:15
kainxkitsune"main contrib non-free non-free-firmware"23:15
golinuxNo it isn't. ;)23:15
golinuxOT that is23:16
kainxkitsuneuh what?23:16
kainxkitsunei just doubled checked my souces list23:16
golinux<nsprra> yeah this chat is really #devuan-offtopic23:16
nsprraoh23:16
golinuxAnd is non-free-firmware in there?23:17
kainxkitsuneYes23:17
golinuxAll of them?23:17
kainxkitsuneyes23:17
golinuxBecause of peppermint?23:18
golinuxThat is  Devuan derivative that we recognize.23:19
kainxkitsunemaybe? i tried the normal devuan installer  but it complained about a merged /usr  folder, but I guess ill go back and try putting /usr on its own partition instead of letting the installer auto format.23:20
rrqI think nvidia-persistenced requires systemd, but the installation doesn;t require nvidia-persistenced23:20
rrqperhaps a --no-install-recommend will help?23:21
golinuxrrq to the rescue!23:21
rrqah, plural: --no-install-recommends23:21
kainxkitsunei was trying to install nvidia-driver, but yeah I think nsprra was having issues with nvidia-persistenced23:21
rrqwhich dependent is "not installable" for you?23:22
kainxkitsunemy error is that the package has no installation candidate23:23
nsprrathanks rrq23:24
nsprraerror processing package nvidia-persistencd (--configure))  "action "start" failed23:24
rrqkainxkitsune: check https://pkginfo.devuan.org?nvidia-driver23:25
nsprra"failed to query nvidia devices. Please ensure that the NVIDIA device files (/dev/nvidia*&) exist.  [ they do not]23:26
rrqyou may need to add daedalus-proposed-updates23:26
kainxkitsuneill check it out23:26
nsprralspci shows 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corpopration GA10223:26
rrqnsprra: which kernel module is needed?23:27
nsprrai seem to nave no nvidia kernel modules loaded23:28
kainxkitsuneoh all the nvidia packages say they are amd6423:28
kainxkitsunebut im 32 bit only23:28
kainxkitsunethat may be the issue23:28
nsprrayeah i didn't get a nvidia module from the install hrm23:29
rrqkainxkitsune: yes searching nvidia-driver:i386 says the last such was beowulf23:29
nsprraah i have to sign the nvidia kernel module due to uefi?23:30
nsprrai hate uefi23:30
kainxkitsunedarn, I may have to just suffer then.23:30
rrqnsprra: mmm no that shuldn't be needed23:30
nsprraoki23:31
rrqbut maybe kernel modules ar to be xz-ompressed and yours isn't ?23:31
nsprrai don't want to use the card for graphics at all23:31
nsprramaybe i blacklisted it in grub23:32
rrqfair enough but maybe the software aceeses the device via the device node23:32
nsprraright23:33
nsprrathat's likely in fact23:33
nsprrahey maybe it failed due to missing linux-headers23:35
nsprrauname -r says 6.1.0-10-amd6423:35
nsprrabut a-tpcache search linus-header shows23:35
nsprralinux-headers-6.1.0-15-amd6423:36
nsprraand linux-headers-6.1.0-16-amd6423:36
nsprraand linux-headers-6.1.0-21-amd6423:36
nsprranone of which match the kernel version on the daedalus-installed kernel23:36
nsprraah i can just apt install linux-headers-6.1.0 and it grabs all the variants23:39
nsprraok yay nvidia-current.ko got built when i apt installed the kernel headers rrq23:41
nsprralots of errors though23:41
rrqwarnings?23:43
nsprrait pulled in linux-headers-6.1.0 matching all kinds of subversions, 15,16,21 and the -rt versions too23:43
nsprrathen it threw up the errors from nvidia-persistenced23:44
nsprrathe only \*nvidia* i find in /lib/modules is 6.1.0-10-amd64/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet/nvidia23:45
rrqyeah you need someone how knows to assist :)23:47
nsprrai have a fresh backup of the root filesystem.  nothing can harm me23:47
nsprrayour nvidia module shown with lsmod is nvidia?  or nvidia-current?  what's the name rrq ?23:49
nsprrai should always buy two of everything23:50
rrq:) ... I don't compile nvidia; just picked up some hearsay on this channel23:52
nsprrai'm so happy i got the amd integrated graphics working after a year23:54
rrqrandom web search says: "... missed a part in the driver's README (section known issues...)"23:55
rrqmight not be your issue of course23:56
rrqanother page talks about running "nvidia-smi" for crreating /dev/nvidia* node(s)23:59

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