| fsmithred | I think I have an iso that's ready to upload and let people try it. It works fine if you're using card 0 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| rrq | great | 00:02 |
| rrq | that beep would be via pc speaker though? and the initrd loads the kernel module for it? | 00:04 |
| golinux | fsmithred: Congrats! | 00:26 |
| golinux | We could use more elves like you in the workshop! | 00:27 |
| fsmithred | rrq, yes it's the pc speaker for the beep | 00:34 |
| fsmithred | and it's before initrd so it must be built into grub | 00:34 |
| fsmithred | speech starts when it reaches runlevel 2 (or just before that, I think) | 00:35 |
| onefang | Don't think any of my computers has an actual PC speaker. I know some have the hardware, just missing the actual speaker part. | 01:24 |
| onefang | The bulk of my music education was older than rrq's, but I'm relearning stuff now, which is why I'm interested in getting one of my smaller computers to boot into synth kiosk mode. | 01:26 |
| onefang | So things like exact frequencies do depend on which cultures scales you are using, and even sub cultures. When I designed MIDI equipment, I recall taking that into account, there's a MIDI standard for micro-tonal tuning to deal with these things. | 01:28 |
| onefang | Not like you are writing complex music to play as beeps over the possibly non existent PC speaker though. So yeah, keep it simple. | 01:29 |
| onefang | Now I'm thinking about putting better sound support into syslinux. Next you'll have me teaching coreboot to speak. lol | 01:37 |
| onefang | espeak has an init script at least, spotted that before. | 01:38 |
| rrq | maybe it would be better with an ISO that has a single boot option, and then put logic in that initrd, instead of trying to wedge in logic before the kernel has started. | 01:45 |
| onefang | I was considering some sort of mini OS, like the initrd, or using the kernel as a boot loader with a mini OS. | 01:47 |
| onefang | This is why I'm trying to nail down what fsmithred wants. Where should I put my effort? | 01:48 |
| onefang | Soo far I have the concept working at a top level using ALSA and JACK. | 01:49 |
| onefang | Lowering it down the stack would suit fsmithred, just deciding how far down. | 01:50 |
| onefang | Moving it to the beginning of runlevel 2, instead of the end like now, would also suit me. Then I can get in before anything else wants to make noise, including espeaks init script. | 01:53 |
| fsmithred | right now, the first thing the screen reader says is "Entering runlevel 2" | 01:55 |
| onefang | Then I can get my synth kiosk to say very early on in the boot process "Don't look at me like that, I'm a piano! Blame onefang, he didn't want to strap a baby grand piano to his back and carry it for three hours. Wuss." B-) | 01:56 |
| fsmithred | that's why they made electric pianos | 01:56 |
| onefang | I don't have one of those either. I make do with what I got. | 01:57 |
| fsmithred | Here's the latest iso I made. It works if you're using card 0. https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan-live-speech-amd64-20241012_1314.iso | 01:58 |
| onefang | SHA256SUMS.txt hasn't been updated for that new ISO. | 02:02 |
| onefang | Downloading it now. Slowly. | 02:02 |
| fsmithred | there's a separate sha256 file and also a .asc | 02:08 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan-live-speech-amd64-20241012_1314.iso.sha256 | 02:09 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan-live-speech-amd64-20241012_1314.iso.sha256.asc | 02:10 |
| onefang | Saw those and grabbed them to. | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | note: openssh-server is installed | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | I'll leave that out in the final one | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | rrq, I ended up using geany to copy/paste the bell. How would I create that if I didn't have one to copy? Just adding ^G shows up as ^G in the menu. | 02:13 |
| onefang | Try a hex editor? | 02:13 |
| onefang | 0x07 for ^G from memory. | 02:14 |
| rrq | maybe it uses ctrl-V ctrl-G ? | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | yeah, 07 is right | 02:14 |
| onefang | Nothing wrong with my memor... what was I talking about? | 02:14 |
| rrq | mmm looks like it has unicode character command,, shift-ctrl-U | 02:15 |
| rrq | https://wiki.geany.org/howtos/sorted_keyboard_shortcuts | 02:16 |
| rrq | ctrl-shift-u 7 enter | 02:17 |
| onefang | Downloaded. Let's see if I can copy that onto a USB stick without crapping all over my biggest bit of spinning rust like last time. | 02:20 |
| fsmithred | cool, that works in geany. Thanks. | 02:21 |
| * rrq waiting to be replaced by an AI | 02:22 | |
| onefang | gparted has been GTK enshitified now. Maximise the window so I can read all the log stuff, it only uses one quarter of my screen height, but is happy to use all of the width. Pffft | 02:23 |
| rrq | fdisk FTW ;) | 02:24 |
| onefang | fdisk is what I use if I want a scriptable or cli thing. Sometimes I want a GUI. | 02:24 |
| onefang | That new ISO booted my test computer. Naturally the sound card it chose was one of the three HDMI ones I have no speakers attached to. | 03:00 |
| onefang | Looks like it's using /etc/rcS.d/S17espeakup to fire up the screen reader before it hits run level 2. | 03:02 |
| * onefang installs espeakup on EARS v 0.0, and plays with that. | 03:05 | |
| fsmithred | onefang, the sound card is selected in /etc/default/espeakup. I tried changing it to card 1 where I'm using card 1 and it still didn't work. | 03:42 |
| onefang | When using my device scanning script, one of the non HDMI cards is card 0 on the test box. Still not hearing anything from espeakup during boot. | 03:47 |
| onefang | Time for lunch anyway. | 03:47 |
| rrq | hmm how do I use that sha356.asc ? | 03:53 |
| fsmithred | not sure. I think the same way you would with the upper-case one. | 03:54 |
| fsmithred | same as you would with the official isos | 03:54 |
| rrq | ah, ok it's a detached gpg signature for the sha256 file... | 03:56 |
| fsmithred | gpg --verify devuan*.asc | 03:58 |
| rrq | ta. yes no I'm just wating to have all the bits of the iso as well... | 04:01 |
| rrq | w | 04:01 |
| rrq | (there's something wrong with my fingers; they don't press the key tops hard enough.. I need to replace them I guess) | 04:02 |
| fsmithred | where can you get new fingers? | 04:03 |
| fsmithred | I checked the sig here and it worked. | 04:03 |
| rrq | yeah.. or I'll just train the cat | 04:03 |
| rrq | yes the sha256 file is gpg-verified.. and the iso is sha256sum verified | 04:05 |
| fsmithred | I set runlevel 3 to no-gui for the console-only login | 04:06 |
| fsmithred | time for sleep. I might be back before you're gone. | 04:15 |
| onefang | Just as I was about to ask you to try something. lol | 04:38 |
| onefang | Seems that when I have no ALSA configuration, that is no /etc/asound.conf and no ~/.asoundrc, then espeak seems to do what we want anyway. | 04:39 |
| onefang | I see a bunch of errors as it fails to connect to everything it can find, including JACK and pulse, THEN it makes noise in everything that I can plug speakers into. | 04:40 |
| onefang | With /etc/asound.conf being the one I generate that has entries for all devices, it spews even more errors, but no sound. | 04:41 |
| onefang | Needs others to try this on other hardware, see if it really is speaking on everything all at once. | 04:43 |
| * onefang keeps playing with it. | 04:43 | |
| onefang | Also entirely possible I'm just getting lucky on that box with this test. | 04:48 |
| onefang | Yep, was just getting lucky. | 04:54 |
| onefang | At boot time it is now speaking on all devices. Using espeak to each device as it finds it, so it's speaking on them one at a time, and speaking the device name and number. This included a USB sound stick I plugged in for the test. | 05:22 |
| onefang | Still can't get ALSA to speak on all at once, but then it becomes a jumble of device names when it gets to that part. | 05:23 |
| onefang | Though if I would test this on my super desktop, it'll take a while to speak it's way through the dozen audio devices. And most of them would be silent, coz I don't have half a dozen monitors with speakers. | 05:25 |
| onefang | espeak is still not working with an actual ALSA config in place though. Or at least the one I made confuses it. But progress! | 05:26 |
| onefang | Though if it starts with the half dozen audio devices baked into your graphics card, and none of them are plugged into speakers, you'll get silence for a long time before it gets to whatever is plugged into speakers. That might be a good use of "Speaker test, may be silence for a while." spoken on all first. | 05:31 |
| fsmithred | the init script runs alsactl and card0 is described in /var/lib/alsa/asound.state | 07:28 |
| fsmithred | (back to sleep) | 07:28 |
| fsmithred | onefang, what did you want me to try? I'm about to have breakfast and then can play with stuff. | 13:43 |
| onefang | Try espeak and other ALSA things with and without /etc/asound.conf and ~/.asoundrc files. | 13:47 |
| onefang | Enjoy your brekky. | 13:48 |
| fsmithred | I've already tried a few different asound.conf configs and none worked. | 13:49 |
| fsmithred | I also tried replacing the device name in /var/lib/alsa/asound.state and it complains about a bunch of channels that don't exist. | 13:50 |
| onefang | So you haven't tried a complete lack of any asound / alsa config files, letting ALSA sort itself out? | 13:52 |
| fsmithred | I've tried changing the order of the cards in asound.conf and alsamixer respects the change but still no sound | 13:52 |
| onefang | Though likely that just goes to what ever your computer thinks is card 0. | 13:52 |
| fsmithred | if the card that exists doesn't match asound.state then it uses a generic config. | 13:53 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried getting rid of asound.state. When I'm more awake I'll know how to do that. | 13:53 |
| fsmithred | I think I have to make an iso without it. | 13:54 |
| onefang | What I have that works so far is something that loops through the devices and calls "ALSA_CARD=$CARD espeak hello" Where $CARD is the number of the audio device, so typical 0, 1, 2, 3 ... I currently call this from the espeakup init script, but it's getting it's own init script today or tomorrow. | 13:56 |
| fsmithred | I would like to try that | 13:57 |
| fsmithred | can you paste it somewhere? | 13:57 |
| onefang | So during boot, before init runlevel 2, any device with a speaker plugged in should say "hello". | 13:57 |
| fsmithred | sounds very cool | 13:57 |
| onefang | I'll clean it up and push an update to my git soon. | 13:58 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 13:58 |
| onefang | Though like you, a meal may be involved soonish. | 13:58 |
| * onefang thinks I'll mess with the bootloader on that box AFTER I've cleaned up and pushed things. lol | 14:01 | |
| onefang | Ah the ever popular naming of things. Think I might now call the package All Audio To ALSA And JACK, or aataaj, which should be pronounced like "attach". | 16:44 |
| fsmithred | I made a live-speech iso without any asound.conf or asound.state. Put it on a usb and booted it on the machine that has hdmi first. It did not create a new /var/lib/alsa/asound.state | 20:36 |
| fsmithred | and of course I don't have audio because I use the PCH not the HDMI | 20:36 |
| onefang | I'm just about to upload my new script. Think I'll just add it to the existing repo, and not bother with changing the repo name for now. The new script basically combines the old ones into one file. | 20:38 |
| fsmithred | ok, I'll look after I eat lunch. | 20:38 |
| onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/cgit/JackOnAllDevices/tree/aataaj.lua There's docs near the top, and the help command will print those docs as well. | 20:43 |
| onefang | Time for me to eat to. lol | 20:43 |
| onefang | I should point out that if you don't use the JACK command, then you don't need the JACK stuff installed. | 20:51 |
| * onefang notices several typos in the help text and comments. lol | 21:01 | |
| onefang | I should get some sleep now. Likely just a few hours. | 21:56 |
| fsmithred | ok, I have some weird results that I will post here | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | made a live-usb with persistence so I could save changes over a reboot | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | found a usb headset and plugged that in | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | edited /etc/modprobe.d/alsa.conf to set snd-hda-intel index=0 | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | and no | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | snd-usb-audo index=0 and intel to -2 | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | when it came up, aplay showed that PCH was first, HDMI second and USB did not appear. | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | no sound | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | that's as far as I got. Oh I ran alsactl store to regenerate /var/lib/alsa/asound.state. It has data for all three devices in it. | 21:59 |
| fsmithred | brb | 22:52 |
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