| KatolaZ | since nobody has complained | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fsmithred | I'm not suggesting that we remove it | 00:00 |
| KatolaZ | they can still remove pulseaudio if they want | 00:00 |
| KatolaZ | it's a recommends | 00:00 |
| KatolaZ | not a depends | 00:00 |
| fsmithred | I'm saying we don't need to remove it because it's so easy | 00:00 |
| fsmithred | it does not want to remove the whole desktop | 00:00 |
| KatolaZ | Centurion_Dan: I agree, it's not critical for ascii, since apt-get remove pulseudio solves the problem | 00:00 |
| KatolaZ | let's keep it in mind for beowulf though | 00:01 |
| KatolaZ | oh sorry fsmithred, probably misread you :) | 00:03 |
| KatolaZ | so we are all on the same page | 00:03 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I think so | 00:03 |
| KatolaZ | good | 00:03 |
| fsmithred | kilobyte, you were right about the pinning. I changed my pin for libsystemd0 in jessie and tried to upgrade to ascii, and it wants to remove the desktop. | 00:19 |
| golinux | Are we having a meet this Wed? | 01:01 |
| golinux | Last week was a major washout. | 01:02 |
| Centurion_Dan | golinux: I hope to be there... | 06:09 |
| parazyd | golinux: Don't feel bad about _every_ week these days. We all know what's up and things are better correlated here on irc. | 06:14 |
| parazyd | (This is wrt release, naturally) | 06:16 |
| golinux | Centurion_Dan: OK. I create a pad then. | 06:45 |
| golinux | Here's the pad for this Wed. meet: https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/1/edit/wUm1s4RNyvloWE6yY35-yw/Yz1RXdNy2tdmX6ebt8Vg60UB/ | 07:09 |
| jaromil | about pulseaudio, IMHO: I believe we cannot address the problem in a RC cycle unless is as serious as "gets installed during upgrade" as Centurion has warned (did anyone replicate this?) | 12:47 |
| parazyd | It gets installed as Recommends. | 12:48 |
| parazyd | s,as,with, | 12:48 |
| jaromil | more in general on the method I believe what happened to elogind and the desktop thanks to gnu_srs amesser Irrwahn and all those who helped is the way to go: a group of people not a single person gets focused on a problem to solve it with more eyes on it, during a development period and a clear agenda that is acknowledged by all (in that case the agenda being dekstop fixing which we all agreed as | 12:49 |
| jaromil | necessary) | 12:49 |
| jaromil | is there a growth of inclusion of pulseaudio into other packages recommends then, between jessie and ascii? | 12:50 |
| KatolaZ | jaromil: don't think so | 12:50 |
| jaromil | generic remark: I've stepped in beowulf and recommends: were quite annoying in the process. sorry did not document | 12:50 |
| KatolaZ | pulseaudio was already pulled in as a recommend in jessie, IIRC | 12:50 |
| jaromil | yes | 12:51 |
| jaromil | that I remember | 12:51 |
| KatolaZ | so there is not a regression there | 12:51 |
| KatolaZ | it might be annoying for some users | 12:51 |
| KatolaZ | but it's just an "apt-get remove --purge" awat | 12:51 |
| KatolaZ | ~away | 12:51 |
| parazyd | Guys, this is no different than dbus. | 12:51 |
| parazyd | And we're not acting on dbus, are we? | 12:51 |
| jaromil | not during an RC and a clear plan and team dedicated to the issue | 12:52 |
| jaromil | sadly enough I think people using Devuan as desktop are used to being annoyed by pulseaudio in a way or another. I am and don't consider it either a regression. certainly something to be fixed. | 12:52 |
| parazyd | Remember that Tor Browser won't have sound without pulse, and probably Firefox soon enough (unsure of its current state). | 12:52 |
| parazyd | jaromil: It's xfce that's pulling it in. | 12:53 |
| jaromil | shame on tor browser for this. such a good project falling in the tarpit | 12:53 |
| parazyd | To be honest, I'm pretty sure most users of xfce don't mind pulse. | 12:54 |
| KatolaZ | parazyd: only as a recommend | 12:54 |
| KatolaZ | yeah, namely | 12:54 |
| parazyd | The more experienced ones can simply purge it out without destroying anything. | 12:54 |
| KatolaZ | and also, I don't think our mission is to get rid of pulseaudio | 12:54 |
| KatolaZ | I have never used it | 12:54 |
| parazyd | It was presented in such a way. | 12:54 |
| KatolaZ | and as long as it is not mandatory, I am fine | 12:55 |
| KatolaZ | parazyd: where? | 12:55 |
| parazyd | In the backlog of this channel. Yesterday and the day before. | 12:55 |
| KatolaZ | oh | 12:56 |
| KatolaZ | well, but that's not the stated aim of devuan right? :D | 12:56 |
| parazyd | Of course. | 12:56 |
| parazyd | I'm just saying, we shouldn't behave like that either. | 12:56 |
| parazyd | Rather rationally look at the issue (if any). | 12:56 |
| KatolaZ | yep | 12:56 |
| KatolaZ | well but this seems to have been "solved: | 12:57 |
| KatolaZ | it's just a Recommends | 12:57 |
| KatolaZ | not a Depends | 12:57 |
| KatolaZ | so it's pretty harmless | 12:57 |
| KatolaZ | if users don't want it, they'd just purge it | 12:57 |
| KatolaZ | end of story | 12:57 |
| KatolaZ | it's like other thousands of silly Recommends | 12:57 |
| parazyd | I agree. | 12:58 |
| KatolaZ | well, let's put ascii out | 12:59 |
| KatolaZ | that's the only important thing | 12:59 |
| jaromil | As I said before about pulseaudio I would love to see it out but conscious it would break so many things that I just "don't touch" until either I have time to create a team to study the problem or someone else does. | 13:00 |
| jaromil | as a workflow this should be: study and present an assessment to devs, then decide if its worth the effort | 13:00 |
| KatolaZ | jaromil: pulling pulseudio out is not something to do in a Sunday afternoon.... | 13:00 |
| jaromil | I think we don't even have a clear assessment now | 13:00 |
| jaromil | yes | 13:00 |
| KatolaZ | and honestly, many users are apparently fine with it | 13:01 |
| jaromil | I think pretty much nothing in Devuan should be just done in a Sunday afternoon by one single person | 13:01 |
| jaromil | however, focusing on the RC, we should put ASCII out pretty soon I think | 13:01 |
| KatolaZ | we just need to rebuild the installer | 13:01 |
| KatolaZ | and the live isos | 13:01 |
| jaromil | I am not sure I can attend on wednesday (I'll be busy all night helping to dismantle this exhibition in Rome https://binart.eu) | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | I guess parazyd has to rebuild a couple of ARM images | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | but that would be it | 13:02 |
| parazyd | All of them :p | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 13:02 |
| jaromil | and propose we move the meeting to friday and work on the release preparations through the weekend, with the tentative release day being next monday | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | oki | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | no jaromil | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | let's have the meeting on wednesday | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | so we can have the images ready for the weekend | 13:02 |
| parazyd | Meet tomorrow and release this week. | 13:02 |
| parazyd | Yes ^ | 13:02 |
| KatolaZ | it's not a plannig meeting | 13:03 |
| KatolaZ | this is an operative one | 13:03 |
| KatolaZ | checking that everything is fien for the RC2 | 13:03 |
| KatolaZ | ~fine | 13:03 |
| jaromil | oh, aiming at an RC2? | 13:03 |
| jaromil | ok | 13:03 |
| KatolaZ | start uploading images | 13:03 |
| KatolaZ | etc/ | 13:03 |
| jaromil | I'm fine with this. just cannot attend well tomorrow and afraid the meeting becomes too much of a quarrel over this pulseaudio issue | 13:03 |
| KatolaZ | uh? | 13:03 |
| jaromil | from a methodological point of view, it should not be an issue during RC release cycle | 13:04 |
| KatolaZ | and in fact it is not | 13:04 |
| KatolaZ | and won't :) | 13:04 |
| jaromil | I will be able to assist release cycle with anything needed from thursday night onwards | 13:04 |
| KatolaZ | gret jaromil! | 13:04 |
| KatolaZ | ~great | 13:04 |
| jaromil | cool | 13:04 |
| parazyd | jaromil: Do you want me to attend building the virtual machines? | 13:05 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: you here? | 13:11 |
| KatolaZ | https://bugs.devuan.org/db/20/208.html <- fsmithred | 13:12 |
| KatolaZ | should we rebuild refractainstaller-gui? | 13:12 |
| jaromil | parazyd: yes please | 13:19 |
| parazyd | :nod: | 13:20 |
| jaromil | thanks | 13:27 |
| jaromil | OT but :ahhhhwwwwww shite: https://github.com/dyne/Tomb/issues/313 | 13:27 |
| KatolaZ | /o\ | 13:31 |
| jaromil | no idea why they did that in assuan | 13:34 |
| fsmithred | KatolaZ, yes, both refractainstallers can be rebuilt. gui and base | 13:40 |
| KatolaZ | ok fsmithred | 13:40 |
| KatolaZ | thanks | 13:40 |
| KatolaZ | will attend that later then | 13:40 |
| KatolaZ | so that we can close that one | 13:40 |
| fsmithred | yes | 13:40 |
| AntoFox | o/ | 13:43 |
| AntoFox | guys sorry for incovenience but need do rebuild entire mate repository (hezeh) | 13:44 |
| AntoFox | with the latest updates there are unmet dependencies | 13:44 |
| KatolaZ | AntoFox: :\ | 13:46 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: do you have a link to the d1g post about replacing slim/consolekit with lightdm/elogind? | 13:51 |
| KatolaZ | (I can't find it using search :( ) | 13:51 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I can find it | 13:52 |
| KatolaZ | https://bugs.devuan.org/db/20/201.html <- it is relevant to this "bug" | 13:52 |
| fsmithred | if you're thinking of Irrwahn's post | 13:52 |
| KatolaZ | which is not a bug report at all :/ | 13:52 |
| KatolaZ | dunno | 13:52 |
| KatolaZ | I remember there was a post about replacing slim with lightdm | 13:52 |
| KatolaZ | and selecting the correct polkit stuff | 13:52 |
| KatolaZ | Irrwahn: do you think it would be good to have that information among the documentation? (i.e., in the wiki?) | 13:53 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8217#p8217 | 13:54 |
| KatolaZ | thanks | 13:55 |
| fsmithred | how do I get synaptic to ask for a password instead of just starting? (refracta upgraded to ascii does this) I already tried installing policykit-1-gnome and it had no effect. | 13:56 |
| fsmithred | everyone else has the opposite problem - synaptic doesn't start from menu at all. | 13:56 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: the latest change in policykit gives right to sudoers users to use it | 13:57 |
| KatolaZ | (I guess( | 13:57 |
| fsmithred | sudoers could always use it | 13:57 |
| fsmithred | the new p-1-g made it so that it worked with root password | 13:57 |
| KatolaZ | oh sure | 14:06 |
| KatolaZ | the thing that lets it being started is the -gnome thing | 14:06 |
| fsmithred | I'm comparing pam files now (devuan-live vs. refracta) | 14:07 |
| fsmithred | there are some differences | 14:07 |
| rrq | do we have a click-button procedure for forwarding a bug report (#176) to debian? | 16:52 |
| KatolaZ | rrq: nope | 16:53 |
| rrq | bother :( it's such a commandable bug report, with patch and all. | 18:14 |
| KatolaZ | rrq: which one? | 18:15 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: do you have a jessie installation at hand? | 19:32 |
| KatolaZ | or anybody else, for that matter.... | 19:33 |
| fsmithred | KatolaZ, yes | 19:53 |
| fsmithred | what do you need? | 19:53 |
| KatolaZ | nothing | 19:55 |
| KatolaZ | solved | 19:55 |
| KatolaZ | thanks | 19:55 |
| KatolaZ | investigating the lsb_release issue | 19:55 |
| KatolaZ | #199 | 19:55 |
| KatolaZ | with parazyd | 19:56 |
| rrq | sorry, I closed shop a bit, to fill up the mid section. | 21:12 |
| rrq | KatolaZ: bug #176 re vde2 .. not anything fatal; I just have a slight interest in vde2. | 21:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 got a feature into supybot :-) | 23:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Donnager: channel help config | 23:09 |
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