| hacksenwerk | Hi. Raspberr Pi 400 here. Using this image: rpi-4-devuan-daedalus-6.1.32-arm64-ext4-2023-06-12-0644 | 12:41 |
|---|---|---|
| hacksenwerk | It is a headless server. I connect to it via ssh: laptop -> router -> rpi 400 | 12:41 |
| hacksenwerk | Today I powered on my laptop and router but not the pi. | 12:42 |
| hacksenwerk | I unplugged the ethernet plug from the pi and connect it to my alptop directly: laptop -> ethernet cable -> rpi | 12:42 |
| hacksenwerk | I tried some stuff I red on stackexchange but I couldn't get a connection. | 12:43 |
| hacksenwerk | I unplugged that ethernet cable from the pi. And I set up my old connection: laptop -> router -> pi. | 12:44 |
| hacksenwerk | The pi showed up i the router a minuter or so after that and I can connect to it via ssh as usual. | 12:44 |
| hacksenwerk | Then I connect a second ethernat cable to it to have this connection again too: laptop -> ethernet cable -> pi, so this connection is now _additional_ to the one throught the router. | 12:45 |
| hacksenwerk | I tested some other direct connection stuff but it did not work, also the pi lost the ssh connection on the router setup. | 12:46 |
| hacksenwerk | I unplugged both ethernet cables from the pi and plugged in only the one that comes from the router, but the pi did not show up in the router. | 12:47 |
| hacksenwerk | I restarted the router and even then the pi did not show up. | 12:47 |
| hacksenwerk | What is going on? | 12:47 |
| hacksenwerk | The first hotplug -> 12:44 worked, but the second -> 12:47 not, why? | 12:48 |
| hacksenwerk | Or maybe a better question: Any tutorial for daedalus to get that direct ethernet connection to work? | 13:13 |
| adam_free2air | hacksenwerk: one tip - if you want direct connection between laptop -> ethernet cable -> rpi without messy static or dhcp configs either end, install/configure autoip, eg with avahi-autoipd on both hosts connected directly via ethernet cable. avahi-daemon should give you hostname resolution under .local automagically. | 13:15 |
| hacksenwerk | adam_free2air: Hi. Thank you for you advice, but I don't want to use any poetterware. Also I would like to learn more about networking. | 13:18 |
| hacksenwerk | That's super weird, when I ping: „ping raspberry-pi-400“ it outputs: „PING raspberry-pi-400.lan (IP-Adress of the pi)“, but also: „From Hostname_of_my_laptop.lan (IP-Adress of my laptop)“ | 13:26 |
| adam_free2air | hacksenwerk: the image you refer to above, for connectivity raises network-manager by default (same as debian). you can install and debug/learn more about IP networking and routing using nmcli or standard debian network configs under /etc/network/interfaces* | 13:27 |
| hacksenwerk | adam_free2air: I removed that from the installation. | 13:27 |
| hacksenwerk | I use dhclient | 13:27 |
| hacksenwerk | I and configured interfaces file | 13:27 |
| adam_free2air | hacksenwerk: not super weird, that's your router resolving mdns from the hostname of the pi published using avahi-daemon (don't get me started, but avahi was but no longer is poetterware). | 13:30 |
| hacksenwerk | adam_free2air: There is no avahi stuff on my pi | 13:31 |
| hacksenwerk | I removed it | 13:31 |
| hacksenwerk | I remove always all packages I don't want and their leftovers from the pi images after booting them the first time. | 13:33 |
| hacksenwerk | And I still have to check some of the default packages that comes with that images, because I don't know all of them. | 13:34 |
| hacksenwerk | The images are not minimal sadly. | 13:34 |
| hacksenwerk | I also reconfigure apt, network stuff, ssh and some other stuff. | 13:35 |
| hacksenwerk | And upon this I build my system. | 13:35 |
| hacksenwerk | For networking I install isc-dhp-client if not there add the interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces, run dhclient and remove all networkmanager stuff. | 13:40 |
| c0rnelius | Build ur own img and don't select network-manager during the build. I guess really you could edit out a lot of packages you didn't want during the build process, but you might break some of the pi specific packages the builder installs. If the headers weren't installed a lot of the build tools could also be removed. | 13:44 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: Yeah that would be a solution, but I never did that before and I'm not familiar with what packages a pi definitaly needs. | 13:46 |
| c0rnelius | Well it is like anything really, make sure the firmware and networking stuff is there and the basics will work. userland, sys-mods, pi-bluetooth and the headers aren't really needed if ur not using all the pi specific stuff and don't plan on compiling against the headers. | 13:52 |
| c0rnelius | but to what end? you save ur self a few 100 mbs off the img? a lot of effort for space that now a days most people don't need. | 13:55 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: It is not about space | 13:57 |
| hacksenwerk | It is about not haveing specific software on your system, and especially no software that you don't use anyway. | 13:58 |
| c0rnelius | k | 14:03 |
| c0rnelius | Probs using the wrong distro then. Devuan has bad track record of pulling in packages that aren't really required. example: https://paste.debian.net/1282734/ | 14:12 |
| c0rnelius | even installing openssh it will try and drag in garbage not related to functionality. | 14:12 |
| hacksenwerk | Maybe that relies on you apt config? | 14:13 |
| hacksenwerk | If not did you report that? | 14:13 |
| c0rnelius | Why would I? They must know. | 14:13 |
| c0rnelius | It has been like this for years | 14:14 |
| hacksenwerk | I don't know about networkmanager, but maybe that is somehow related to some systemd replacements? | 14:14 |
| c0rnelius | an icon package? | 14:14 |
| c0rnelius | right | 14:14 |
| hacksenwerk | I don't know, systemd is so deeply bound to the rest of debian know, I could imagine everything... | 14:15 |
| hacksenwerk | *now - not know | 14:15 |
| hacksenwerk | I have reported that at #devuan | 14:18 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: You are not in that channel with that nick. | 14:18 |
| hacksenwerk | ? | 14:18 |
| hacksenwerk | I am on Devuan since the fork started and I never had any packages pushed in by apt that I don't wanted. | 14:21 |
| hacksenwerk | Is your apt configured in a way that it installs recommends too? | 14:22 |
| hacksenwerk | Or even suggests? | 14:22 |
| c0rnelius | I'm not in that channel. | 14:23 |
| c0rnelius | i pulled that from the pi. i set the sources.list to be the most adequate for general users. if I did a no recommends sure it wouldn't have dragged all that in, but honestly it shouldn't have in the first place. | 14:26 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: Here's the answer: „try 'apt show network-manager' in debian and in devuan to compare the Depends and the Recommends. What you posted doesn't prove anything because we don't know what packages were already installed on the Debian system they used.“ | 14:27 |
| c0rnelius | Well that is fine. They are wrong. | 14:28 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: Ok maybe then you could talk to them yourself. ;) | 14:28 |
| c0rnelius | Both my builders generally use the same depends, minus some and plus some here. | 14:28 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: -> #devuan | 14:30 |
| c0rnelius | Nah. The Devuan's approach to users is, ur wrong. | 14:30 |
| c0rnelius | Done with that. Let them bloat their stuff. | 14:30 |
| hacksenwerk | lol | 14:30 |
| c0rnelius | It is a sad day when I can produce a Ubuntu img that is waaay smaller and installs the same bits minus firmware. | 14:31 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: You're still lacking of a proof. :) | 14:33 |
| c0rnelius | if u say so | 14:33 |
| c0rnelius | go build an img | 14:33 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: Now not me has to do the proof, _you_ have to. | 14:33 |
| c0rnelius | no I don't :) | 14:34 |
| hacksenwerk | Sure you do: You said, there's an issue and not proofing anything about that. | 14:34 |
| c0rnelius | proving | 14:34 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: yeah sorry I'm not native | 14:35 |
| hacksenwerk | Also you avoid the direct contact to the devs. | 14:35 |
| c0rnelius | I thought I just did? one was a minimal pi img and the other was a minimal bpi-cm4 img. neither have network-manager installed. | 14:35 |
| hacksenwerk | In summary that must show: you are trolling. | 14:35 |
| c0rnelius | This is what Devuan uses to produce the pi images; https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder | 14:36 |
| hacksenwerk | Anyway I was just curios if that is an issue or not and not starting some mediating betwenn you and the devuan devs... | 14:36 |
| c0rnelius | I think I would know what is and isn't getting installed at this point with each distro. | 14:36 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: As I said: I don't have ever build an imag, if you think you have found an issue, go and report it. | 14:37 |
| c0rnelius | I'm not starting anything. You were talking about being minimal and I was pointing out that Devuan isn't unless you try really hard :) | 14:37 |
| hacksenwerk | Oh and also I think all arm images are done by the devuan community and not the developers of devuan. | 14:37 |
| c0rnelius | that is true | 14:38 |
| hacksenwerk | c0rnelius: That is not true for me, I have a more minimal system compared to the "minimal" bloated one I once had with Debiand | 14:38 |
| c0rnelius | good good | 14:39 |
| hacksenwerk | on x86 | 14:39 |
| hacksenwerk | on rpi I don't know, cause I only used that once with raspian long ago and now with devuan and I'm also new on the pi, I have nearly no exprience with it. | 14:39 |
| c0rnelius | in theory it shouldn't be much diff than x86, but who knows. I know it isn't all that diff on other distros. | 14:40 |
| c0rnelius | my guess is the depends are all the same on each ARCH. Be a lot more work to make it not so. | 14:40 |
| c0rnelius | at least general depends. | 14:41 |
| hacksenwerk | You should adress you issue the to the people who develop devuan-arm. | 14:45 |
| hacksenwerk | So here in the channel? Or here: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=24 | 14:46 |
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