| gnarface | agneli: not sure, you might have to rebuild it though | 04:15 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | that's using the armel port? | 04:15 |
| gnarface | not armhf right? | 04:15 |
| agneli | gnarface: i have always been using armhf | 07:55 |
| agneli | on same machine | 07:55 |
| agneli | kindly forgive ubuntu link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100 | 07:56 |
| agneli | in case of Firefox it is NEON that is required | 07:57 |
| agneli | palemoon used to work but also gives me Illegal instruction.... | 07:57 |
| agneli | :( | 07:58 |
| gnarface | yea it's coming up as a common problem, but i think other than switching to armel your only hope is to rebuild everything | 08:34 |
| gnarface | obviously neither solution is optimal | 08:34 |
| gnarface | but i do recall seeing the proper compiler flags around somewhere | 08:35 |
| gnarface | there is a way to preserve hardware floating point support without needing NEON, it's just that some time ago debian decided there wasn't enough market share of that type of hardware to care about (i think they were wrong and possibly biased by a disinformation campaign lead by organized crime but it's not really on-topic) | 08:36 |
| agneli | thank you for your answer gnarface, all in all: gentoo-arm? | 08:41 |
| gnarface | yea, i think this particular use case makes a good argument for the way gentoo is set up | 08:42 |
| gnarface | though a mean build script could certainly do the same thing on devuan | 08:42 |
| agneli | i have no idea how to do such a script :) | 08:43 |
| agneli | and gentoo I am using as a daily driver on all machines | 08:44 |
| agneli | this particular machine was the only exception | 08:44 |
| agneli | i liked devuan... | 08:44 |
| agneli | now question is - issue is only with daedalus | 08:45 |
| agneli | or earlier releases as well? | 08:45 |
| gnarface | not sure how far back the problem goes, but i do know that needing the NEON instruction set wasn't always there for palemoon | 08:46 |
| gnarface | i think at some point the same issue came up for midori as well | 08:46 |
| gnarface | i think individual developers are making the decision to add it | 08:46 |
| agneli | i used to use palemoon without problem | 08:49 |
| agneli | in 80386 time without fpu there were software solutions to work around that problem... | 08:50 |
| gnarface | i don't know of such a thing for NEON support but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist | 08:52 |
| gnarface | it should be possible i think | 08:52 |
| gnarface | maybe look in the build options for a recent kenrel | 08:52 |
| gnarface | kernel* | 08:52 |
| agneli | i kernels I build myself | 08:56 |
| agneli | no support for my board in devuan | 08:56 |
| agneli | paz00 - it is removed | 08:56 |
| agneli | though it is in vanila kernel | 08:56 |
| gnarface | i had been thinking of trying to go through a proper hardfloat build for my old raspberry pi | 09:08 |
| gnarface | but even the suggestion of the proper compiler flags for that came from the gentoo wiki | 09:08 |
| gnarface | if i were to do this for devuan i'd likely be borrowing heavily from their documentation | 09:09 |
| agneli | gnarface: https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort | 11:42 |
| agneli | that seems official... | 11:43 |
| agneli | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Specifications | 11:44 |
| agneli | I am nVidia Tegra 2 | 11:45 |
| agneli | "Currently the Debian armhf port requires at least an Armv7 CPU with Thumb-2 and VFP3D16" | 11:46 |
| agneli | i have VFP3 | 11:46 |
| agneli | i am listed there: | 11:48 |
| agneli | https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort#Partial_reference_of_SoC_and_supported_ISAs | 11:48 |
| gnarface | hmm | 12:08 |
| gnarface | in that case you should definitely file a bug report about it with debian | 12:08 |
| gnarface | it won't help my rpi1 issue unfortunately, because it's actually Armv6 | 12:09 |
| agneli | it might be mesa actually needeing neon | 12:27 |
| agneli | just like firefox does... | 12:27 |
| gnarface | well you might be able to test that by disabling accelerated rendering in firefox | 13:40 |
| gnarface | but i'm not sure it's just mesa | 13:40 |
| agneli | i might not gnarface :) | 13:48 |
| agneli | ff requires neon | 13:48 |
| agneli | it does not even start | 13:48 |
| agneli | dives illegal instructions | 13:48 |
| agneli | unles you know something i do not know... | 13:49 |
| agneli | which is quite probable ;) | 13:49 |
| bb|hcb | https://wiki.debian.org/ArchitectureSpecificsMemo#armhf | 18:20 |
| bb|hcb | My (highly uneducated guess) would be that recent gcc started generating code with NEON instructions and thus violated the baseline of armhf. Most of the people have NEON and this went unnoticed. Maybe it is a good idea to check if that is already reported as a debian bug | 18:22 |
| agneli | "armv7 with VFPv3-D16 floating point. NEON is not guaranteed." | 18:39 |
| agneli | not guaranteed it does not mean it cannot be there... | 18:39 |
| agneli | it means it can be there but is not mandatory | 18:40 |
| bb|hcb | Not guaranteed means it is not in the baseline. Programs are OK to do a runtime check and use it, if present, but if not present, there must be a fallback | 18:42 |
| agneli | ach OK | 18:44 |
| agneli | thank you bb|hcb for your explanation :) | 18:44 |
| agneli | "[...]you are bringing hope to those that have none[...]" | 18:45 |
| bb|hcb | Note that the baseline may have changed and those pages to be outdated. I wouldn't have noticed, because I only have arm64 devices. Search Debian bugs for "armhf neon" or similar, maybe also file bugs for the packages that do not work. | 18:47 |
| bb|hcb | I'd suppose that the problem is not in the packages themselves but in the toolchain | 18:47 |
| agneli | i am doing just that | 18:48 |
| agneli | but what you say should mean that firefox also should have some sort of fallback | 18:48 |
| agneli | otherwise it violates baseline | 18:48 |
| agneli | firefox in devuan is not working from me since long time | 18:49 |
| agneli | maybe even since very begining of devuan | 18:49 |
| bb|hcb | I'd suppose the problem came with a new toolchain. Firefox is not forked and the binary package comes 1:1 from Debian | 19:58 |
| agneli | firefox was never working for me in devuan | 20:13 |
| agneli | last working was debian wheezy | 20:13 |
| agneli | mesa was ok till now | 20:13 |
| agneli | => 0xb6ff07d4: vmov d16, r2, r0 | 20:14 |
| agneli | this is the offending instrution in glxgears | 20:14 |
| agneli | i did not find anything relevant on debian bugs page yet | 20:14 |
| agneli | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=982794 | 20:25 |
| agneli | somebody _is_ chasing firefox issue... | 20:25 |
| agneli | https://lists.debian.org/debian-gcc/2022/06/msg00045.html | 20:38 |
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