| golinux | Meet the latest FF "improvement" | 00:13 |
|---|---|---|
| msiism | I hope it hasn't been improved beyond repair in this case. | 00:20 |
| rustyaxe | wtf keeps trying to set an address on my eth2? :( Its messing up my bridge. This time its one of those goofy "autoconf" addresses -- 3: eth1: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,DYNAMIC,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel master br0 state UP group default qlen 1000 link/ether 00:15:17:4b:5d:d0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 169.254.158.112/16 brd 169.254.255.255 scope global eth1 | 00:31 |
| rustyaxe | err eth1 not eth2. eth2 is fine for now. | 00:31 |
| Afdal | Well I have no idea what that other user did to make it work on their Palemoon setup, but I disabled all my add-ons and git.devuan.org is still crashing my browser | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | No | 02:57 |
| Xenguy | Palemoon is crashing your browser I think | 02:57 |
| Xenguy | Palemoon was incompatible with all kinds of web sites when I tried it out back in the day | 02:57 |
| Xenguy | The developers were borderline crazy as well | 02:57 |
| Afdal | one of them yes, who was expelled years ago now | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | You can't blame web sites like Gitea for PM's instability | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | Basically all bets are off with that browser AFAICT | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | Don't expect stability | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | Or perfect stability | 02:58 |
| Afdal | I can absolutely blame incompetent "standards"-chasing devs enthralled by Google for making the web worse for Google competitors | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | That was somewhat a leap, but okay | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | Besides, we should all have more than one browser ready to deploy, in this age of unknowns and unpredictability, no? | 03:01 |
| Xenguy | Did you try Basilisk at all? | 03:01 |
| Xenguy | (If it is still a thing, not sure, it's been awhile) | 03:01 |
| paculino | Palemoon works well enough for me | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | Happy to hear it | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | We sure need more diversity in the browser space | 04:08 |
| paculino | It's what I use (with proxy) to grab links off of facebook accounts to download the videos. I also use it for onecompiler sometimes | 04:08 |
| paculino | Yeah | 04:08 |
| paculino | Mostly I use icecat and dillo | 04:08 |
| Xenguy | Dillo has no JS as I recall, and icecat seems to be a non-trivial install last time I checked in | 04:08 |
| Xenguy | I would like to try icecat though | 04:09 |
| paculino | Someone in the mailing list started making unofficial .deb releases | 04:09 |
| Xenguy | hrm, good to know | 04:09 |
| paculino | https://icecatbrowser.org/all_downloads.html | 04:09 |
| Xenguy | Oh thanks | 04:09 |
| paculino | It was hosted on codeberg until they went over the cutoff for release sizes | 04:10 |
| paculino | They used to have something hidden listed called 'vanilla' that was basically the old iceweasel browser | 04:10 |
| Xenguy | Good to see | 04:10 |
| Xenguy | Oh man, iceweasel | 04:11 |
| Xenguy | Those were good times | 04:11 |
| Xenguy | Branding warz | 04:11 |
| paculino | It would be official, but the icecat team has at least one person who doesn't want anything official if any listed release required non-libre software to build or run/install, so... | 04:11 |
| paculino | At least that was the mailing list reason | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | Fair enough | 04:12 |
| paculino | Gnuinos has version 102.11.0 atm (and translation packages); it looks like it only ever got updates for gnuinos releases | 04:13 |
| Xenguy | hrm, not sure what that means | 04:13 |
| Xenguy | They seems to have lots of different releases at the URL you posted | 04:14 |
| paculino | The Devuan-derived distro gnuinos has version 102.11.0-1 as the latest | 04:21 |
| freaxeh__ | so how do I do a backup of a devuan system drive? I've tried using clonezilla to do a device-to-device backup but it appears to have failed when trying to boot from the new drive, with errors about "fd0" sector 0 flags phys_seg 1 etc | 12:42 |
| freaxeh__ | I/O errors | 12:43 |
| freaxeh__ | i've got two 120GB SSDs | 12:43 |
| debdog | dd | ddrescue | 12:44 |
| freaxeh__ | when do i execute that command> | 12:46 |
| freaxeh__ | ? | 12:46 |
| debdog | you boot a live or rescue CD, so the system drive isn't in use, then run either of these commands | 12:51 |
| debdog | you have never heard abouz dd? | 12:51 |
| freaxeh__ | i have thats what i was going to use at first | 12:52 |
| freaxeh__ | so I just run dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb status=progress | ddrescue ? | 12:53 |
| debdog | the | was meant as an OR | 12:54 |
| freaxeh__ | oh right | 12:54 |
| debdog | but you could pipe dd to dd so you have one process to read and one to write. which might speed up the process | 12:55 |
| debdog | like dd if=/dev/sda | dd of=/dev/sdb | 12:55 |
| debdog | or "dd bs=10M if= | pv --size 120G | dd bs=10M of=" | 12:56 |
| freaxeh__ | lets not get carried away | 12:58 |
| fsmithred | yeah, use pv with it so you know how much longer it will take when you come back from lunch and look at it. | 13:31 |
| gnarface | freaxeh__: dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb conv=fsync status=progress | 14:47 |
| papa | Hello. I just booted from a DVD with Daedalus 5.0 live desktop. The system boots and starts an X session, but all it shows is the desktop wallpaper and a short menu ("Create Launcher...", "Create URL Link ...", "Create Folder...", and five other utilities) if I right click on the desktop, but no task bar, Start button, application menu, or anything | 15:35 |
| papa | else is visible. NOT what the Live Install Guide shows. What did I do wrong? | 15:35 |
| fsmithred | check the sha256sum to make sure the download was good | 15:37 |
| papa | Did that. It checked. | 15:38 |
| papa | I assume I am supposed to get a normal Xfce desktop. | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | yes | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | maybe try alt-sysrq-k to kill the x-session and see if it works better second time it comes up | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | I can't think of what would cause that | 15:43 |
| gnarface | i could speculate... slow boot media? maybe it would come up eventually... | 15:44 |
| fsmithred | oh, maybe | 15:44 |
| fsmithred | go make coffee | 15:44 |
| fsmithred | uh, that's what I'm going to do now. | 15:45 |
| papa | Been sitting here for ~30 minutes. My old PC is slow, but not that slow. | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | and gnarface thanks for status=progress - I always forget about that. | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | ok, 30 minutes is more patience than anyone should expect. | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | check .xsession-errors | 15:46 |
| gnarface | papa: how much ram does it have? | 15:46 |
| fsmithred | brb | 15:47 |
| papa | Alt-SysRq-K flashed a screen of what looked like boot messages, and now a blank solid blue screen. No cursor, no mouse pointer, nothing. | 15:47 |
| gnarface | papa: try ctrl+alt+f2 | 15:48 |
| gnarface | if that drops you to a terminal see what "free -mt" says | 15:48 |
| papa | OK. Now I've got a s shell. | 15:48 |
| gnarface | see if the Mem row in the free column is 0 or close to 0 | 15:49 |
| gnarface | usually when there's problems it's right away, not halfway into the window manager, so we're kinda shooting in the dark here | 15:50 |
| gnarface | but there could be some clues | 15:50 |
| papa | $ free -mt --> Mem: total 3301 used 550 free 2569 shared 58 buff/cache 954 available 3240 / Swap: total 0 used 0 free 0 | 15:51 |
| gnarface | no swap but should be plenty of free memory, so that's not the issue, hmm... | 15:51 |
| fsmithred | maybe check sha256sum on the dvd itself to see if the burn was good | 15:52 |
| gnarface | yea, and also yea check the xorg error log | 15:52 |
| gnarface | it would be really weird for it to get this far then derail over a drive issue, that would normally happen right away | 15:52 |
| gnarface | but there could be clues in the logs | 15:53 |
| papa | Did a more on .xsession-errors and it's hung after displaying the first page. | 15:54 |
| gnarface | yikes | 15:54 |
| gnarface | if you ctrl+alt+f3 do you get another shell, or is the whole thing completely frozen now? | 15:54 |
| gnarface | if you get another shell, check the last output of dmesg | 15:55 |
| gnarface | incidentally, which video card is it? | 15:56 |
| papa | No. Got out of more with Ctrl-C. .xsession-errors has a bunch of Gtk-WARNINGs, but nothing too strange. | 15:57 |
| gnarface | check dmesg for anything that looks like a i/o error | 15:57 |
| papa | dmesg has a bunch of errors from a usb device ("device descriptor read/64, error -71"), but I don't think that's got anything to do with Xfce session. | 16:02 |
| fsmithred | are you running off usb or a usb optical drive? | 16:02 |
| gnarface | uh... don't be so sure.. does it happen to be the usb device you booted this live image from? | 16:02 |
| gnarface | even if it's not the boot device, i/o errors can cause UI hangups, so if you don't actually need it for this test maybe try booting without it connected | 16:03 |
| papa | No. My DVD drive is internal SATA connection. Also, no video card. Graphics integrated on CPU. | 16:08 |
| gnarface | is there a file at ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log you can read? | 16:09 |
| gnarface | i do think you should try booting it with whatever that usb device is disconnected but first check the Xorg log | 16:09 |
| papa | No xorg dir in ~/.local/share | 16:10 |
| gnarface | how about /var/log/Xorg.0.log? | 16:11 |
| papa | Nothing enlightening in /var/log/Xorg.0.log. | 16:16 |
| gnarface | can you paste it at paste.debian.net so we can take a look? | 16:16 |
| gnarface | don't paste it in here, there's anti-flood protection | 16:16 |
| papa | What about trying a different resolution mode in my X session? Is there a key combo to do that? | 16:16 |
| gnarface | ctrl+alt+num_plus or ctrl+alt+num_minus used to work anyway | 16:17 |
| gnarface | that depends on auto-detect also working though and we don't know if it is | 16:17 |
| gnarface | i think at the boot menu it should also give you an opportunity to set a vga mode at the kernel command-line too though, that might work better | 16:18 |
| papa | paste.debian.net/1376361/ | 16:21 |
| gnarface | hmm, you're right, nothing really interesting in there. only thing i note is you're using the modesetting driver, which should be okay for intel but not so hot for amd | 16:23 |
| gnarface | is it a amd cpu? | 16:24 |
| gnarface | particularly a new one? | 16:24 |
| papa | So things to try are: 1) check sha256sum of my DVD; 2) boot live DVD with USB devices removed; 3) try different VGA mode on boot menu | 16:24 |
| gnarface | 4) try installing amdgpu from non-free | 16:24 |
| gnarface | er, non-free-firmware actually, as of current stable | 16:24 |
| fsmithred | should already be installed | 16:25 |
| gnarface | assuming that's one of those new amd apus | 16:25 |
| papa | Intel Core i7 CPU | 16:25 |
| gnarface | oh, hmm | 16:25 |
| papa | Old machine | 16:25 |
| gnarface | yea, try the checklist, afaict this should be working | 16:25 |
| fsmithred | I only have old machines | 16:26 |
| papa | Decided it's time to retire Windows 7. ;) | 16:26 |
| gnarface | papa: well everything seemed normal, but i wonder if the lack of relevant errors means it's rendering the whole thing but at the wrong resolution for the display due to some dumb auto-detect error, but forcing a correct resolution by kernel command-line should cover that possibility | 16:27 |
| gnarface | like, maybe the toolbar was there but just not visible because it was literally off the bottom of the screen? | 16:27 |
| gnarface | in some cases mouse-pan will work to access hidden regions, but sometimes it will not | 16:28 |
| gnarface | think that could have been the case? | 16:28 |
| papa | That is possible. I couldn't get the screen to pan, but it seemed like on at least one side of the screen I could move the mouse farther than the visible edge of the screen. | 16:29 |
| gnarface | ah yea | 16:30 |
| gnarface | starting to sound like a xorg auto-detect failure | 16:30 |
| gnarface | i usually just dial everything in statically to my xorg.conf to avoid that type of thing | 16:30 |
| papa | I have seen that on other machines. | 16:30 |
| gnarface | it can sometimes be caused by weird display adapters, are you perchance converting between display connector types? | 16:31 |
| fsmithred | right-click should give a bigger menu | 16:31 |
| fsmithred | should have Terminal in it. | 16:31 |
| gnarface | sometimes it's just an inescapable bios bug though and all you can do is set the resolution manually | 16:31 |
| gnarface | ideally you'd want to tell xorg both a list of static resolutions as well as a preferred default, and the display's horizontal and vertical refresh ranges, as reported by the display's manufacturer docs | 16:32 |
| fsmithred | ctrl-alt-t will give you a terminal | 16:32 |
| fsmithred | and then you could run xfce4-settings-manager and mess with all the settings | 16:32 |
| papa | No. Though I think HDMI was a very new thing when my PC came out so it may have some slight incompatibilities with the newer monitor. I have noticed slight flakiness while I've been using it with Windows. | 16:33 |
| fsmithred | you're using hdmi? | 16:34 |
| gnarface | papa: ah, HDMI cable versions could also cause similar issues | 16:34 |
| papa | The check list grows. | 16:34 |
| gnarface | papa: if the computer's display output was made to support one particular HDMI version, and the display supports a later HDMI version, it might actually matter that the cable itself is of the higher of those two versions (because HDMI's design is fundamentally cursed) | 16:35 |
| gnarface | but like i said, just manually dialing in the resolution and refresh ranges could obviate the issue too | 16:35 |
| papa | I'll put that on top of the list after I verify my DVD. | 16:36 |
| fsmithred | is it uefi or legacy boot? | 16:36 |
| papa | legacy | 16:37 |
| fsmithred | ok, so it's using isolinux and you could add a vga=something to the boot command | 16:37 |
| papa | OK. | 16:38 |
| gnarface | yea, in theory everything including modesetting should be able to inherit that setting | 16:38 |
| fsmithred | if it was uefi, it would be grub and you would do something else | 16:38 |
| papa | Earlier I was trying to install Devuan on this machine from a thumb drive I created a year or two ago. I was trying to install to an external hard disk, but couldn't get the installation to complete because it seemed to be trying to write the boot loader to the UEFI partition on the thumb drive, which didn't seem right. That's why I decided to | 16:42 |
| papa | download and burn a fresh image on a DVD and start over. | 16:42 |
| gnarface | hmm, sounds like a solvable issue, especially if you're not actually using uefi | 16:43 |
| gnarface | let's try to get to the bottom of this first because it should definitely work, but next time you try to do an actual install, try the netinstall iso instead of the live iso | 16:44 |
| gnarface | we can walk you through it | 16:44 |
| papa | Appreciate the offer, but it's almost bed time here (Japan). Will try the VGA mode trick tomorrow. | 16:46 |
| papa | Well. SHA256 check sum on my DVD is not the same as the checksum I downloaded with the ISO. | 16:48 |
| papa | Will try again with the netinstall ISO tomorrow. | 16:48 |
| djph | papa: it won't be | 16:51 |
| gnarface | papa: alternately there's also a minimal live iso, which just doesn't have a gui | 16:53 |
| papa | Then what should I compare the DVD checksum to? | 16:53 |
| gnarface | wait the dvd checksum won't match? | 16:54 |
| gnarface | it would on usb flash though | 16:54 |
| djph | gnarface: not directly to the *iso file -- DVD metadata / partitioning messes with it | 16:55 |
| djph | or well, it used to back when I used DVD's ... but we're talking, um... a while now | 16:56 |
| papa | OK. I may try the netinstall ISO anyway. | 16:56 |
| gnarface | papa: the thing about the netinstall is you can choose manual partitioning | 16:56 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, pv looks pretty cool. I have it installed and was aware of it but strangely have never bothered to use it. | 19:24 |
| rwp | gnarface, (Xenguy) The problem with conv=fsync is that it waits to perform the sync at the very end. Which means the progress is really fast while it is buffering and then at the end it stops for an unpredictable long time. And it wastefully uses buffer cache which is not going to be used again. | 19:54 |
| rwp | Better to use "dd oflag=direct,sync" which uses O_DIRECT,O_SYNC writing as it goes and if possible avoiding buffer cache. | 19:55 |
| rwp | My favorite combination of pv with dd is this "pv devuan_daedalus_5.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso | dd of=/dev/da0 bs=1M iflag=fullblock oflag=sync,direct" so that I get reasonably accurate progress notification. | 19:55 |
| rwp | I wish pv had an O_DIRECT option flag though. Maybe I should hack on in. | 19:55 |
| greenjeans | fsmithred: query, i'm looking at the documentaion for pv, and it seems like exactly what is going on in Snapshot while it's squashing, displaying progress in the main terminal window, but I don't see a pv command in the script anywhere? | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it uses pv | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | or the installer does | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | refracta2usb uses it | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | I need to look at the code. brb. | 20:24 |
| fsmithred | nope. no pv in snapshot or installer | 20:25 |
| fsmithred | greenjeans, mksquashfs does that on its own. | 20:27 |
| rwp | Oh! pv in Sid/Ceres Unstable has -K,--direct-io now! It's already there in the newer version. We will see it in Excalibur. Yay! | 20:28 |
| greenjeans | ahh, gotcha | 20:28 |
| greenjeans | wonder how hard it would be to pipe pv output into a yad progress-bar dialog? | 20:28 |
| fsmithred | hang on and I'll try it | 20:29 |
| fsmithred | I'm not getting it. Something is weird. It says it'll take about 36 minutes whether my testfile is 10M or 1000M. | 20:37 |
| gnarface | rwp: i was pretty sure that conv=fsync actually does exactly the opposite of that, and actually syncs on every block | 21:36 |
| gnarface | ...which makes a noticeable difference in the reported write speed immediately | 21:36 |
| gnarface | as in, making it quite slow | 21:36 |
| gnarface | you might be confusing it with conv=sync, which only actually syncs meta-data up front? | 21:37 |
| gnarface | (of course, actually running sync manually afterwards is still an option) | 21:38 |
| rwp | gnarface, conv=sync is a silently corrupting option! "Pad every input block to the input buffer size. Spaces are used for pad bytes if a block oriented conversion value is specified, otherwise NUL bytes are used." This won't happen when reading from a disk file but might happen when reading from a pipe (especially if the pipe involves networking). | 21:56 |
| rwp | I wish that option had been named differently since it is named such that it suckers one into thinking it does the desired thing. But, nope. | 21:57 |
| rwp | gnarface, I guess I am going to need to examine the dd code but I had pre-compiled that conv-fsync calls fsync at the end of the run. | 21:58 |
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