| onefang | Please note that https://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html gives a rather large speed when it tests the sledjhamr.org mirror, coz that's on the same server. Which is why we have https://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 00:47 |
|---|---|---|
| onefang | Also sledjhamr.org has slowed down since I switched hosting companies last year. | 00:48 |
| ted-ious | rrq: That's a good idea but I couldn't do it at the time because the firewall beat me to the dns packets. :) | 01:26 |
| ted-ious | Oh nice the panopticon report includes ip's already. | 01:27 |
| ted-ious | Ok I tested it with host instead of nslookup and I got this. | 01:40 |
| ted-ious | $ host deb.devuan.org | 01:40 |
| ted-ious | It gives 22 different round robin entries then this. | 01:41 |
| ted-ious | ;; Truncated, retrying in TCP mode. | 01:41 |
| ted-ious | So it's definitely too many entries for one standard dns packet. | 01:42 |
| ted-ious | deb.us.devuan.org is only one server with 2 different ip's. | 01:43 |
| onefang | There's a limit? Or is this just a limit in some specific bit of software? | 01:45 |
| Hurgotron | UDP packets can't be greater than 512 bytes. So any application needs data to be transferred greater than 512 bytes require TCP. But I'm wondering why the server doesn't use TCP right away | 01:59 |
| onefang | Seems to have only hit ted-ious though? | 02:19 |
| Hurgotron | Not sure what exactly is ted-ious' issue. But if your path somewhere blocks TCP for DNS you'll likely have issues with the resolving of deb.devuan.org because the reply is rather big. | 02:25 |
| Hurgotron | Should look like stuck output though in host or dig. | 02:25 |
| onefang | And not likely to get smaller, we want more not less mirrors. | 02:26 |
| Hurgotron | (I helped debugging this once when one of the DNS servers had a misconfigured firewall. Was getting the stuck output every now and then, depending on which server my resolver was querying) | 02:27 |
| Hurgotron | onefang: I think Geo-DNS would be the better idea compared to huge DNS replies, to get only servers in your area | 02:29 |
| Hurgotron | Or maybe Anycast | 02:29 |
| onefang | The current system was setup before I joined. | 02:31 |
| Hurgotron | I mean, it doesn't make a slot of sense to get/use the Brazilian server, for me here in Germany | 02:31 |
| onefang | And I don't actually control the Devuan DNS servers, I basically just let those that do know which mirrors to include. | 02:32 |
| Hurgotron | Didn't say you should do it :) But I should probably try to talk to one of the DNS admins | 02:34 |
| * onefang smiles and goes back to weekend mode. Trying to avoid work today, but I'll end up doing things anyway. lol | 02:51 | |
| rrq | as I try "dig deb.devuan.org" it offers the full range of ipv4 resolutions, claiming its a UDP message of 454 bytes. I'm not aware of the DNS protocol having message size limitation; the UDP protocol restricts messages to 65536 bytes | 02:52 |
| rrq | when I try "host deb.devuan.org" it offers both ipv4 and ipv6 ranges and doesn't tell me which transfer protocol(s) it used. | 02:53 |
| onefang | Could very well be a ted-ious only problem. | 02:53 |
| rrq | the round-robin was set up for load balancing purposes so that different clients would access different servers; it's not aimed for enhancing the client experience in other ways | 02:55 |
| onefang | The CC.deb.devuan.org thing was added later for those that want specific country code support. | 02:56 |
| onefang | On the gripping hand, most mirrors hand off to Debian package mirrors for those great majority of packages that are not Devuan specific. | 02:58 |
| rrq | yes; and of course the speed of service depends more on the beefiness of servers and their internet plans than geographic distance. | 02:59 |
| onefang | Those that don't hand off to Debian run their own Debian mirror as well, and can handle it all. | 02:59 |
| onefang | Which is why sledjhmar.org got a reputation for being speedy. It was well located on the Internet backbone before I had to move it. | 03:00 |
| onefang | Even I can't spell sledjhamr sometimes. lol | 03:02 |
| rrq | (... I thought it was a traffic filtering scheme :) | 03:03 |
| onefang | Nah, that'll be my next vapourware project, JainSore! | 03:04 |
| * onefang wanders off for lunch. | 03:05 | |
| ted-ious | So some devuan mirrors re-host debian packages instead of letting the client get them from debian mirrors? | 03:18 |
| Hurgotron | rrq: About the UDP DNS size limitations: RFC1035 page 32 | 03:22 |
| Hurgotron | ted-ious: never looked to deeply into it, but I *think* devuan mirrors proxy debian packages, except those with devuan specific changes. | 03:24 |
| ted-ious | Here are some links discussing why dns behaves the way it does. https://old.reddit.com/r/Network/comments/1d54xl4/can_somebody_explain_this_to_me_if_dns_uses_udp/ https://serverfault.com/questions/587625/why-dns-through-udp-has-a-512-bytes-limit https://labs.apnic.net/index.php/2024/02/26/dns-and-truncation-in-udp/ | 03:31 |
| ted-ious | Hurgotron: I had guessed that devuan hosted the packages that devuan needed and apt just went to debian mirrors for anything else. | 03:32 |
| ted-ious | I guess I stopped thinking about it after somebody here explained that only a few packages are actually customized for devuan. | 03:32 |
| ted-ious | I'm very interested to test my theory out tho. | 03:33 |
| ted-ious | I would bet that the only reason the firewall blocks anything devuan is because of the dns issue. | 03:34 |
| Hurgotron | ted-ious: Thanks for the links - I didn't remember offhand that the server signals the UDP trunation, and that the client actually has to ask for TCP | 03:41 |
| ted-ious | Right and what's worse the client might even know what's wrong if it's the firewall doing the filtering. | 03:44 |
| onefang | Devuan package mirrors host the Devuan specific packages. Most of them will hand you to deb.debian.org for those packages we share with Debian. Some package mirrors also host packages for other distros and things, including Debian, or some just have Devuan and Debian. Obviously those that host Debian as well don't need to hand those packages off to a Debian mirror, they ARE a Debian mirror as well as being a Devuan mirror. | 03:46 |
| Hurgotron | https://gnu.gl/@wtfismyip/114241028190253398 wait, what? | 03:47 |
| Hurgotron | systemd-resolved is going away! | 03:47 |
| onefang | According to https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt it already went away, so not our problem. | 03:54 |
| rrq | (Hurgotron: thanks.) | 04:00 |
| Hurgotron | onefang: Still nice to see parts of Debian come to their senses again. | 04:03 |
| onefang | By "hand you off to Debian" it's usually a HTTP redirect, so apt then goes to Debian to fetch the Debian packages we still use in Devuan. | 04:05 |
| onefang | Some time next week I should have our wiki in a good enough state that I can sit down and write all of this up in great detail. | 04:07 |
| Hurgotron | looking forward to that! | 04:08 |
| onefang | Almost got it down to zaro boogs. B-) | 04:09 |
| onefang | But now I should go play some games instead. Working my way through all the games in our packages, see what I like enough to keep. | 04:10 |
| ted-ious | onefang: Have you tried angband yet? | 05:11 |
| onefang | Angband is installed, I'm going through them in alphabetical order, currently going through the tutorial for 0 A.D., | 05:38 |
| ted-ious | Oh that's a good one. | 06:02 |
| ted-ious | I wish there was a bit more content so you could do more than just get started. | 06:03 |
| ted-ious | I think there was some kind of artificial limit on the number of units you could have on the screen too. | 06:05 |
| onefang | I'm wondering about the "Feminization" score. | 06:05 |
| ted-ious | I don't remember anything about that. | 06:06 |
| onefang | All I know is the summary page shows I have 0% in that. shrugs | 06:07 |
| ted-ious | I haven't played it in along time so maybe that's a new feature. | 06:08 |
| * fluffywolf sends onefang some spiro and e to improve their feminization score | 06:09 | |
| onefang | Maybe the tutorial will get to it, but there's nothing I have found in the manual. | 06:09 |
| fluffywolf | bbl, bedtime | 06:16 |
| ted-ious | onefang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBFdxOE7UFw | 07:01 |
| divansantana | in xfce gui i configure system suspend after xx minutes. But it doesn't do anything. Any suggestions what I can check? (Daedalus) | 13:43 |
| divansantana | i think this will fix it `for i in cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev users netdev bluetooth lpadmin scanner ; do gpasswd -a myuser $i ; done` | 13:47 |
| divansantana | i think this still doesn't fix it. Any other ideas? | 14:09 |
| gnarface | divansantana: not sure exactly how you thought that command would help... maybe something running is keeping it awake though? or maybe you're missing packages... or a bios setting... there's a number of possibilities | 14:16 |
| gnarface | make sure you have acpid and pm-utils installed | 14:17 |
| divansantana | gnarface: i thought perhaps the user needed to be part of some group. | 14:17 |
| gnarface | no, your user doesn't do it | 14:17 |
| gnarface | a system process running as root has to do it | 14:17 |
| gnarface | usually it's the graphical login manager, through the permissions backend (multiple choices for both, not all work as well together) | 14:18 |
| gnarface | one thing you could try doing is running /usr/sbin/pm-suspend manually | 14:19 |
| divansantana | gnarface: those pkgs were missing. thank you! installing and testing. | 14:19 |
| divansantana | i did tasksel and selected xfce desktop, it seemed to not install those pkgs. | 14:19 |
| gnarface | uh, i think they're in the laptops task, but they really should be in all of them for modern computers, i dunno why they aren't | 14:20 |
| divansantana | gnarface: through xfce logout menu and selecting suspend worked. but auto suspend didn't. | 14:20 |
| gnarface | hmm, odd | 14:20 |
| gnarface | could be something you left running? like a web browser or media player perhaps | 14:21 |
| gnarface | make sure you close everything and see if it's still a problem | 14:21 |
| gnarface | check "ps aux --forest" for anything hung | 14:21 |
| gnarface | if auto suspend isn't working but manual suspend is, that usually means some other process or source of input is canceling the timeout | 14:23 |
| divansantana | will double check nothing is causing it to not go to sleep. and no apps running. | 14:23 |
| gnarface | are you also running xscreensaver? | 14:23 |
| divansantana | gnarface: yes i think it does | 14:24 |
| gnarface | i wonder if the xscreensaver timer could be conflicting somehow, i think that's been a problem before | 14:26 |
| gnarface | which session manager are you using? | 14:26 |
| divansantana | slim, i think the default. | 14:27 |
| divansantana | xscreensaver is in the proc list | 14:27 |
| divansantana | no D in --forest | 14:27 |
| gnarface | yes, the default is probably slim. i don't think very highly of slim. i can't imagine this is actually slim's fault, but in general i've found lightdm to be more reliable and compatible | 14:27 |
| divansantana | i'll give it 15m and see if it works now (since installing those packages, though another laptop, seems to work and doesn't have these pkgs installed) | 14:28 |
| gnarface | hmm, there might be something other than acpid you could have instead, depending on certain hardware, i think, not sure | 14:29 |
| gnarface | is this a intel i5/i7 rig or something like that? | 14:29 |
| gnarface | the other one that's working, that is | 14:29 |
| gnarface | if both machines in question are in fact laptops though, it might be worth it to just try installing task-laptop on the one that's not working | 14:30 |
| gnarface | it is possible for some hardware to have power management entirely in the bios too though, and it's possible i think to turn off bios settings which would make software power management controls useless, so maybe compare bios settings too | 14:31 |
| gnarface | or the installed package list even | 14:32 |
| divansantana | oh woops, i didn't see laptop under tasksel! | 14:32 |
| gnarface | they're just meta-packages, i think you can install them with regular apt | 14:32 |
| gnarface | try: apt-cache search ^task\- | 14:33 |
| divansantana | turns out the working laptop, has laptop already checked under tasksel! so that may fix it. | 14:33 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure the tasksel interface in the installer even shows them all | 14:33 |
| divansantana | oh, good to know, thanks. | 14:33 |
| divansantana | tasksel gui doesn't show them all. wow, that's useful. ta. | 14:34 |
| gnarface | np | 14:34 |
| gnarface | depending on what the missing piece is, it might need a reboot or at least it might more easily be enabled with a reboot | 14:40 |
| gnarface | and if they're two of the exact same machines and one still doesn't work with all the same packages, make sure they both also have the same bios version | 14:41 |
| divansantana | they all i7, diff versions. two lenovos, one of them is working. And one dell, not working. but will check these things, thanks. | 14:42 |
| Guest47 | Hallo zusammen, kann mir jemand bei der Installation von dem aktuellen Devuan helfen? Nach der Installation und nach dem Starten, also bei der Anmeldung bleibt der Bildschirm dunkel. Auch angeschlossene Bildschirme bleiben dunkel. nichts zu sehen. Strg+F2...F5 ändern nichts. Thinkpad T460p, 2x GPU: Intel and nvidia Devuan | 17:21 |
| Guest47 | 3 Beowulf lief bisher | 17:21 |
| Guest47 | ok, i try english: could anyone give me some help to install devuan 5.0? (Devuan 3 is still runing 'perfectly' on a 2nd ssd) But after installing and starting the display stays black/dark. even extern displays HDMI/ PortStation. Strg+F2...F5 changes nothing. It's on a Thinkpad T460p 2x GPU: Intel and nvidia | 17:39 |
| greenjeans | Guest47: Hi, probably we'll need some more information before offering any suggestions, some more details of your installation procedure and the equipment, the forum might be a better place for doing that than IRC. Dev1galaxy.org | 17:42 |
| Guest47 | i tried devuan_daedalus_5.0.1_i386_desktop.iso via external CD-Rom and USB stick and devuan_daedalus_5.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso on an usb stick, i tried Cinnamon, KDE and no graphical system. i tried automatic installation and expert, with and without crypted LVM | 17:52 |
| Guest47 | ok, if there is noch fast ideas, i will try the forum. | 17:53 |
| fsmithred | lspci | 17:53 |
| fsmithred | what's your graphics card? | 17:53 |
| fsmithred | did you get a desktop on the live? | 17:54 |
| fsmithred | and how did you prepare the usb stick? | 17:54 |
| fsmithred | Guest47, ^^^ | 17:55 |
| Guest47 | no desktop on live (dedaus 5.0) but i get a desktop on newest debian-live image. | 17:55 |
| fsmithred | did it boot to console? | 17:56 |
| Guest47 | Intel HD 530 (bis zu 512 MB Ram) + nVidia GeForce GT 940MX (2GB RAM) | 17:56 |
| Guest47 | what is the way to boot to console? | 17:57 |
| fsmithred | sometimes if the desktop doesn't come up in the live you get a plain old tty command prompt | 17:57 |
| Guest47 | (oh by the way: i tried the recovery boot ... there was no pwd to get root????) | 17:57 |
| fsmithred | root password is toor | 17:57 |
| fsmithred | user (devuan) password is devuan | 17:58 |
| fsmithred | or just use sudo in the live | 17:58 |
| fsmithred | no password needed for that | 17:58 |
| Guest47 | oh no, i mean with recovery boot i was automaticaly logged on as root, without pwd (root-pwd was set in installation) | 17:59 |
| fsmithred | you could try adding 'nomodeset' to the boot command | 18:01 |
| Guest47 | after normal starting the fresh installation, there was no prompt. i tried some keys, combinations, blind enter pwd, ... so i activated (blind) an audio output, thats plays my comands | 18:02 |
| fsmithred | on the desktop-live iso | 18:02 |
| fsmithred | they played? | 18:03 |
| Guest47 | ok ... will try. i think, devuan is based on debian (exept systemd). debian live iso is working. | 18:03 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it's mostly the same packages | 18:04 |
| Guest47 | i can hear my letter-input via audio | 18:04 |
| fsmithred | do you normally install the nvidia driver? | 18:05 |
| greenjeans | Just checked specs on that machine, was wondering why you would choose a 32 bit system instead of the 64 bit live? | 18:05 |
| fsmithred | good point | 18:06 |
| greenjeans | Looks like a nice 2016 model that should run really well on Devuan 64 bit | 18:06 |
| fsmithred | and there won't be an upgrade to excalibur for 32-bit | 18:07 |
| Guest47 | oh !!! 386 , realy??? :( *facepalm* that's right .... hm i will try 64 :D | 18:09 |
| fsmithred | amd64 is for amd and intel | 18:09 |
| greenjeans | Good luck, let us know if it works out! | 18:10 |
| Guest47 | because it was asked: UBS was prepaird by img via rufus on a win10 notebook | 18:11 |
| fsmithred | that might not work | 18:11 |
| fsmithred | well, if you got into the installer and it didn't complain about not finding cdrom, then I guess it works. | 18:12 |
| fsmithred | that would not affect the graphics | 18:12 |
| fsmithred | brb | 18:12 |
| Guest47 | first step: 64bit live img is running *facepalm* next step: clean install with destop img. | 19:03 |
| paculino | How can I reload/regenerate the freedesktop list of installed applications? There are ghosts and duplicates in my launcher menu and open-with options. | 21:37 |
| fsmithred | paculino, maybe edit /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | assuming you don't have duplicate .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/ | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu | 22:11 |
| Guest47 | okay, devuan_daedalus_5.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso starts, but devuan_daedalus_5.0.1_amd64_desktop.iso isn't booting (USB flashed via rufus on Win10) :( next try flashing via dd on devuan 3.1 | 22:15 |
| fsmithred | dd should work | 22:16 |
| greenjeans | I keep seeing complaints aout rufus not working very well in some instances | 22:16 |
| greenjeans | *about* | 22:16 |
| greenjeans | refracta2usb for anytime I want multi-boot and persistence, mintstick when I want it fast and simple | 22:17 |
| Guest47 | crazy, live img works, 386 desktop works, 386 live works, debian live works, devuan desktop does not. | 22:18 |
| fsmithred | do it start to boot? | 22:20 |
| Guest47 | no | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | how far does it get? | 22:20 |
| ted-ious | Not even a syslinux prompt? | 22:20 |
| Guest47 | F12 -> choosing USB -> ENTER -> some LED flashing on USB -> dark screen | 22:21 |
| Guest47 | nothing then | 22:21 |
| fsmithred | you waited a couple minutes just in case it was slow? | 22:21 |
| Guest47 | yes. no led-action (R/W) on usb-stick anymore. | 22:23 |
| fsmithred | were you planning to install the full desktop or start with less and add stuff later? | 22:24 |
| ted-ious | That sounds like a failure to load a kernel. | 22:24 |
| greenjeans | kinda sounds like a bad usb stick too maybe | 22:24 |
| ted-ious | I have had this problem when a sd card was in the reader and the laptop thought it could boot off it. | 22:24 |
| ted-ious | greenjeans: If other versions of devuan or debian can boot from that stick it must be good enough right? | 22:25 |
| greenjeans | ahh yeah I guess so... | 22:26 |
| greenjeans | but so far none of them install properly.. | 22:26 |
| ted-ious | Too bad we can't tell usb flash to wipe itself all the way back to the factory settings. | 22:26 |
| greenjeans | might be some tiny fly in the ointment | 22:26 |
| greenjeans | Mintstick wipes it when you re-format | 22:27 |
| ted-ious | greenjeans: I wouldn't assume that a black screen when trying to boot from usb is the same problem as the installed desktop not working. | 22:27 |
| Guest47 | a basic desktop environment would be nice. ;) | 22:27 |
| fsmithred | you could install from the live | 22:27 |
| ted-ious | Guest47: Try installing the server instead. | 22:28 |
| ted-ious | Then you can at least have a functioning system that you can login to from console before you try to get the desktop working. | 22:28 |
| fsmithred | it's also possible to do a debootstrap install from the live isos | 22:28 |
| paculino | I did that the first time I installed debian | 22:28 |
| paculino | (not devuan; devuan I did via migration) | 22:29 |
| Guest47 | installing from the live is nearly copy the live to the disk? no partitioning, crypting, ...? | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | manual partitioning | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | you can have separate /boot and /home partitions | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | you can encrypt any or all of those but without lvm | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | swap is a swapfile on root partition by default, so it would be encrypted with / | 22:30 |
| fsmithred | swap partition can be chosen if it exists before you run the installer | 22:30 |
| fsmithred | manual = gparted for the desktop-live | 22:31 |
| Guest47 | next try is desktop iso flashed via dd. | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | what was the one that just failed? | 22:33 |
| Guest47 | desktop img amd64 via rufus (live img amd64 via rufus works) | 22:36 |
| temp_forever | did you verify the download with https://files.devuan.org/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/SHA256SUMS.txt ? - if it keeps failing, it could be a corrupted download. | 22:41 |
| Guest47 | yes, sha256 via 7zip | 22:44 |
| rrq | does rufus preserve the image label? | 22:46 |
| greenjeans | So you're trying to use USB with one of the installer iso's, as opposed to using a desktop-live iso and installing from live-session? | 22:46 |
| rrq | the stick should be a byte-for-byte copy of the iso, up to the length of the iso. | 22:47 |
| Guest47 | if the image label is DEVUAN501? then yes | 22:49 |
| Guest47 | i found a dvd-RW. parallel to dd now a DVD is in production. | 22:50 |
| greenjeans | Nice, I still do a ton of installs using CD/DVD, it's a great way of ruling out usb issues | 22:52 |
| Guest47 | encrypted lvm is a nice to have (i have it now on Devuan 3) | 22:52 |
| Guest47 | ... but not possible with installation via live img | 22:53 |
| rrq | "not possible" might be a bit strong :) .. I'd settle for "not easy" | 22:54 |
| temp_forever | I find easiest is to dist-upgrade the running system [after backup] | 22:56 |
| temp_forever | have only run into a few minor issues going that route | 22:57 |
| temp_forever | but, to each his own | 22:58 |
| rrq | yeah though upgrading doesn't help with changes to the disk access stack | 23:00 |
| Guest47 | haven't done a dist-upgrade before and prefer a clean install on new ssd. i think, the route of a dist upgrade would be step by step? Dev3 --> Dev4 --> Dev5 ? | 23:01 |
| temp_forever | Yes | 23:02 |
| temp_forever | I think I did try skipping a version on one system, don't remember if that was successful or not though | 23:03 |
| greenjeans | I did, did not work at all unfortunately | 23:03 |
| temp_forever | I'm thinking my attempt probably didn't work either | 23:04 |
| Guest47 | installation via DVD is running. needs some minutes. ... | 23:13 |
| Guest47 | need to pause some hours. I'll be back ;) may be as Guest 47, may be not ;) Thanks a lot for your help!!! | 23:24 |
| chozorho | listen, I really hate to ask this (you might be hearing a dozen other people asking the same thing), but could someone let me know if CVE-2025-0927 affects debuan as well? It affects Ubuntu kernels, but articles are saying it affects "numerous distributions" that use a similar kernel version... | 23:39 |
| chozorho | *devuan.... herp | 23:40 |
| chozorho | wait... they still need local user access to begin with. I'm probably fretting over nothing. | 23:44 |
| rrq | I know it's possible to choose to use hfs+ filesystem in a devuan system, so probably that bug is available. | 23:46 |
| metala | chozorho: it's a kernel issue since 2.6.xx. But to trigger it you need to be able to make a media and have user access to run mount on that media... | 23:48 |
| metala | you need to test the PoC, by on my setup (Devuan 5) I cannot create a new namespace with root to het mount(2) and run the attack vector. | 23:53 |
| metala | I've got 'Operation not permitted' | 23:54 |
| metala | scratch that, I've managed to get root in namespace | 23:56 |
| metala | just keep your kernel updated | 23:57 |
| chozorho | uh.... I'm probably dumb, but I don't know how to test the um, new namespace. I've only ever mounted ordinary FAT/ext drives in the past | 23:57 |
| chozorho | that being said, I don't think I have many ports open, so I don't think anyone else is getting user access in the first place, lol | 23:58 |
| metala | this is not RCE, it's LPE, so no concerns there.. unless someone is able to run commands in the host over an insecure service you are providing | 23:59 |
| rwp | If you never mount a malicious user's Apple ipod on your system then you will probably never have an opportunity to be hit by that CVE. | 23:59 |
| rwp | If you only ever mount your own Apple ipod on your system then you probably will not be attacking yourself with a malicious image and so again you will probably not be vulnerable. | 23:59 |
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