libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2025-03-15

paculinoI'm not sure what I did. Either the check mark for staying logged in is required to stay logged in after searches, or I really messed up building this browser00:01
gnarfaceplasma41: didn't try actually, not really sure i remember how actually... haven't had to actually use postscript on a printer since the 90's00:37
gnarface(like, before there was a HP open source driver)00:37
gnarfaceis there an option for that in chromium or something?00:39
rrqfsmithred: the search form is a plan html form so shouldn't require javascript01:00
rrqperhaps some browser need js for form submission ?01:01
gnarfaceshouldn't, if the html is correct....01:02
gnarface(looking)01:02
gnarfacenot seeing anything obviously wrong with it though01:03
gnarfacei seem to remember some old IE browser bug involving name and id attribute conflicts, but i think that was with javascript, not without... hmmm01:03
rrqthe only javascript on the forum is for the quick reply (add/remove bbcode tags)01:04
gnarfaceoh, unless it's not the form submit itself... is there javascript involved in the redirect to the results page after submission maybe?01:04
gnarfacesome people don't know you can do that with bare HTTP headers01:05
rrqno other javascript01:05
rrqthere is a css value including "url(Purpy/img/bull.png)" which probably requires javascript engine01:10
rrqwould that stop the form submission?01:12
rrqa couple of "url(..)" values01:12
rrqthat's not very new css "syntax" but possibly it requires javascript enabling01:15
gnarfacei don't think so, i think that's again only in old IE versions and only if you call activex to force directx to render the pngs transparently in versions where it couldn't do without01:18
gnarfacemy memory is foggy on the whole mess, but iirc it would change the part between the () in an obvious fashion01:19
gnarface(and i'm not sure javascript was even required for that, but it might have been since it was using an activex hook)01:19
rrqhmm how do I turn off javascript in chromium?01:20
gnarfacealso dunoo01:20
gnarface*dunno01:20
gnarfacethere's not any guarantee it's even possible, but one would think it is...01:20
onefangkillall -TERM chromium # Should turn off javascript.  B-)01:21
rrqi found a settings toggle but that didn't stop my logged-out search on the forum01:22
rrqit does stop the bbcode shortcut buttons from having effect at least01:25
golinuxThat is NOT a function we should lose. . . .01:51
gnarfaceis anyone else here using the "position_fix" module option to the snd_hda_intel driver? i'm trying to figure out why recordings stopped working, and it seems like they moved what used to be position_fix=3 to something else, and i'm suspecting 6 from testing, but not sure because the descriptions i can google up don't seem to have changed what 3 is supposed to do01:52
gnarfaceactually, what it seems like, by description is they moved it to 4, but only 6 is actually working for me01:53
gnarface3 doesn't work at all and 4 actually causes the problem i was trying to avoid01:53
gnarface(which is static in the recordings)01:59
rrq"``position_fix=6`` is to correct the position with the fixed FIFO02:11
rrqsize, mainly targeted for the recent AMD controllers.02:11
gnarfaceyea, what throws me about that though is that i wouldn't consider this a "recent" AMD controller02:12
gnarfaceand from memory, the description of 4 matches what i thought was 3 before02:12
gnarfaceand 3 used to work02:12
gnarfacei guess i'll just go with it since it's the one that says AMD but i wish i had a qualifier of what counts as "recent" in this context02:13
gnarface(i fully expect to have to change it again some time in the future)02:13
gnarfacethe default setting of 0 used to work, originally, though i'm not sure how many kernels ago that was...02:14
rrqright .. the Documentaiton changed Wed Aug 28 16:34:36 2019 +020002:15
rrqI need to check the module itself I guess02:15
gnarface...wow, had it really been that long since i did an analog recording? i guess it might have been...02:16
gnarfacewell, at the time i originally found 3 to work, it wasn't even in the documentation yet though02:16
gnarfacea post somewhere hinted that position_fix=1 would correct the regression i had then, and only 1 and 2 were documented, and neither of them actually helped, so on a whim i tried 3, in my head having already accepted defeat, and then was surprised it worked02:17
gnarfacebut that might have been something like 201602:18
gnarfaceand then after that i guess mainly had switched to a USB mic, so didn't notice the subsequent regression apparently02:19
rrqSat Oct 1 16:21:24 2022 +0200 .. says something about position_fix=1 being fixed02:20
gnarfacehmm02:20
rrqcommit aab77d312dc39aeffe24223f00ea7c2acf6543cd seems to introduce position_fix=602:25
rrqrefers to "commit c02f77d32d2c45cfb1b2bb99eabd8a78f5ecc7db upstream."02:27
rrqno that was the latest commitlog with that reference02:29
rrq(I'm just browsing the git log)02:30
rrqyes, now I've down to 2014 with fair few notes about dealing with "position" issues02:33
gnarfacethe thing is, before this all started, it was working fine, so i'm really curious why it became such a support issue after working fine for years, but it's not like i haven't had other issues with the same driver on previous motherboards, and i doubt i'd be able to really understand the details if shown in code anyway02:34
gnarfacebut what it seems like, from my perspective, is sabotage02:35
rrqseems that note about "recent AMD" turned up at Tue Aug 6 17:31:48 2019 +020002:36
rrq.. the changelog also talks about "mysterious stalls in pulseaudio"02:37
gnarfacehmm...02:38
rrqBugLink: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19530302:39
gnarfacewikipedia says this motherboard is from 201102:39
gnarfacethat's definitely the right bug though02:40
rrqin 2019: "A long-time problem on the recent AMD chip (X370, X470, B450, etc with PCI ID 1022:1457) with Realtek codecs ...02:40
gnarfacesound capture crackling is definitely the description i'd have used anyway02:41
gnarfaceit's a 990FX02:41
gnarfacei think the manual called the soundcard "Azalia" but alsamixer calls it Realtek ALC89202:42
hacksenwerkIs wayland somehow bound to Poetterware?11:47
hacksenwerkBecause we should highly avoid using xorg any longer...11:48
hacksenwerkEvery program running in a xsession can read __all__ keyinputs every othe rprogram running in the same xsession gets!11:52
hacksenwerkAnd Xorg has no support for GUI-level isolation and wont get that as it seems.11:52
hacksenwerkThat's a security nightmare!11:53
Wizzupthis is not really news though? I think the xorg ml had some isolation work done recently, at least some proposed.11:53
hacksenwerkXorg is a keylogger.11:53
Wizzupis this a troll account or what?11:53
hacksenwerkWizzup: yes its not new that's the problem here.11:53
Wizzupsounds like you're the right person to fix it11:54
hacksenwerkWizzup: theres no isolation and stop trolling me with your fuck*ng troll accusations!11:54
hacksenwerkWizzup: just stfu! Ignored!11:54
hacksenwerkThis issue is in xorg since day one and noone is going to fix it.11:55
hacksenwerkI do not undersatnd why nobody does care aboyt that.11:56
hacksenwerkIf I knew that before I would have dropped xorg already...11:57
hacksenwerkrrq: please report here too.12:00
hacksenwerkUser rrq found out that disabling RECORD and/or XTEST extension does __not__ stop the key sniffing / key logging12:07
rrqthe X11 protocol doc suggests a window may declare "do-not-propagate" for KeyPress/KeyRelease event to stop its propagation down to the root window which presumably is where the sniffing occurs12:13
rrqi.e. a windowing client program could declare that for its root window so as to confine its key press/release events... needs some testing I suppose12:15
hacksenwerkFor everyone whos not in #devuan-offtopic I will link here the guide to reproduce the procedere I described: https://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2011/04/linux-security-circus-on-gui-isolation.html12:17
hacksenwerkNote: install the package xinput and use xinput --test id_here12:17
hacksenwerkThe rest still is correct in the article.12:18
Wizzuphttps://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/186512:51
hacksenwerkApplications that support wayland are isolated from each other and do not suffer from that keylogging issue. But when you run applications that do __not__ support wayland, wayland will use a legacy fallback and the application is still affected by the keylogging issue.13:12
hacksenwerkrrq: Please report again if you find out.13:37
drinkHi. I'm having a little trouble with docker and the latest backports kernel on daedalus amd64, is this an appropriate place to ask about that?14:27
Xenguy_drink, This is the Devuan Support Channel, so no harm in asking, but be patient for a reply.14:45
drinkSounds reasonable. Since updating to kernel 6.12.12 I am having problems with Docker and memory cgroup. It affects my ability to use CUDA with Docker. It works for a little while and then stops, which ollama says is about memory cgroup. Docker output shows e.g. time="2025-03-15T05:33:02.867831941-07:00" level=error msg="add cg to OOM monitor" error="cgroups: memory cgroup not supported on this system"14:47
drinkI have tried adding all of "cgroup_enable=cpuset cgroup_enable=memory cgroup_memory=1 systemd.unified_cgroup_hierarchy=0" to my cmdline in various pieces and no combo has helped.14:48
drink/proc/cgroups does not show memory, but lscgroup does, though it shows "cpuset,memory:/"14:49
rrqhacksenwerk: it's possible to set the do-not-propagate attribute for a window to avoid the root window sniffing of key events15:09
rrqthough it's equally possible and easy to reset that attribute15:10
hacksenwerkrrq: :(15:17
hacksenwerkMy next devuan installation I will use wayland. But I need to figure out first how to get a minimal setup like I have now with X.15:18
hacksenwerkYou need the protocol wich is wayland. Then you need a server that is called wayland compositor.15:20
hacksenwerkI use only a minimal xserver and a window manager.15:21
hacksenwerkStill reading about wayland...15:21
hacksenwerkAll wayland compositors I've found are also window managers....15:25
hacksenwerkAnd what they call minimal is a joke...15:25
drinkHmm, looks like the v1 memory cgroup option wasn't set. How unfortunate. Anyone know how to set the abiname? debian/config/defines doesn't seem to exist15:29
drinkwelp building a new kernel with CONFIG_MEMCG_V1=y fixed it, weird they changed that setting.16:02
hacksenwerkrrq: can you do a pastebin of what youve done, or write a forums post?16:19
rrqhttps://git.rrq.au/?p=rrq/newlisp/pinwin.git;a=blob_plain;f=keystop.lsp;h=cd08cb3fcc4040ed1782d21713fe003c7c2bb798;hb=HEAD16:20
rrq.. a short newlisp script16:20
rrqit sets/resets the KeyPressMask/KeyReleaseMask bits of the do_not_propagate_mask attribute, merging with whatever setting there might be otherwise16:22
rrqneeds to be done on the "Window id" returned by xwininfo16:23
hacksenwerkrrq: Ok thanks, but how to use this?16:23
rrqfor the targeted window16:23
rrqto stop propagation: keystop.lsp 0x240b0f4 116:24
rrqto start propagation: keystop.lsp 0x240b0f4 016:24
rrqinstall newlisp first of course16:24
rrqthat number, 0x240b0f4, is the Window id returned by xwininfo for the target window16:25
rrqyou may also use the ids from "wmctrl -l"16:28
hacksenwerkrrq: I have no clue xD16:29
hacksenwerkA HowTo in the forum would be nice.16:29
hacksenwerkgtg16:43
rustyaxeO_o excalibur installer seems borken. "Unmerged /usr is not compatible with excalibur" -- ok then why are you trying to install unmerged /usr?18:24
greenjeansHow are you trying to install? What iso are you using?18:26
rustyaxelatest from leaseweb mirror: looks to be devuan_excalibur_6.0-20241017_amd64_netinstall.iso18:28
rustyaxeUSB stick install18:29
rustyaxei can always grab daedalus and upgrade from there, but im in the installer menu if anything useful can be gathered or worked around before i reboot18:29
greenjeansGotcha...no experience myself with the excalibur netinstall isos18:30
rustyaxeNo worries, just wanted to note the issue and see if anything useful i could offer before i go the daedalus and upgrade route18:30
greenjeansUpgrade route seems to be working pretty well, and today is first small freeze.18:31
rustyaxeya thats how i usually go18:31
rustyaxeJust figured i'd grab/try the new iso18:32
greenjeansProblem is no new netinstall iso's since last fall, need somebody with some serious skills to take on that job18:33
greenjeansAbove my skill level or I would try18:33
greenjeansI have a working Mate-mini of excalibur I made a couple days ago, hybrid-iso, if you're looking for a quickie working install and don't mind Mate it may be something that would work for you18:34
rustyaxethese dont even have vga hardware (:18:36
rustyaxety tho18:36
rustyaxeive got devuan_daedalus_5.0.1_amd64_netinstall.iso installing now18:37
greenjeansCool, good luck! (don't forget to usrmerge, lol)18:41
fsmithredrustyaxe, choose expert install and you'll get the usrmerge question. Say yes.19:08
fsmithredok, if you upgrade to excalibur, install usrmerge first. (I think you now get prompted to do that during the upgrade if you haven't already done it.)19:10
rustyaxefsmithred: Got ya, ill keep that in mind if go with the excalibur iso again. so far all good with daedulus and about to upgrade19:18
Xenguy_rustyaxe, https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/excalibur-usrmerge-announce-2024-02-20.html20:10
rustyaxeXenguy_: yea usually i install daedalus then upgrade, figured i'd try the excalibur iso since needed to download a copy20:11
rustyaxereally i should just set my pxe install server back up20:12
hacksenwerksince when did /etc/inputrc set bell-style none stopped working?23:32
hacksenwerkI hear a beep on tty when reaching the top of a file in vim for example.23:32
hacksenwerkOh I changed from usb soundcard to onboard sound23:41
hacksenwerkBut the beep is disabled in alsamixer...23:41
hacksenwerkand also in inputrc23:41
HurgotronI just remember that I once wanted to enable the beep (via pc speaker), and that was surprisingly hard to find out23:47
rwpI blacklist the modules pcspkr and snd_pcsp to prevent any beeping to come out of pc speakers.23:53
hacksenwerkHurgotron: :)23:56

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