libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2024-12-28

paculinoIf I never stream, use a disk (no more port for it... :( ), or play drm-locked games, would it be safe to purge lib*drm* ?00:37
rrqI suppose not if any of the binaries you use are linked with a lib*drm* library00:43
onefangDon't confuse the DRM for locking content with the X DRM for directly rendering things.  Purging lib*drm* might get both, but you might want to keep the later.01:09
rustyaxeseems unlikely to do what you think its going to do, paculino01:11
paculinoOkay, thank you.01:17
paculinoI just looked more closely and it seems that I don't have the DRM locking stuff, only the rendering01:18
personwhomightbehello! Is anyone around?05:07
personwhomightbei really want to insttall devuan as my first linux distro but have some newbie questions regarding partitions05:07
personwhomightbeis this the right place to ask?05:08
n4diryou could quickly ask, but i will be gone soon05:09
n4dirin general just use what is the proposed default, either a seperated /home are the whole sheebang in just /05:09
personwhomightbeOS: WIndows 10/Devuan Hardware: Acer A515-43 Problem: I have a main tiny ssd on my laptop which has been running windows. I recently bought and installed a second ssd into the laptop with more space. I want to be able to access files on the second ssd from Windows and from Debian, which I would like to install on that second ssd. The second ssd is currently just nfts where I've been test05:12
personwhomightbetesting out a few different distros in virtualbox. I believe I might be able to access a /home partition/directory from windows, but I'm not sure - is this possible, and if not, is it possible to just keep some of the secondary ssd free from an os's partitio so i can use it basically as a local (unremovable) flash drive? Many thanks!05:12
n4diryeah, i think you can do that. Too tired, and all. It is a bit more of click click in the devuan-installer, but not too hard.05:13
n4direither wait for someone with a bit more of time, or fiddle a bit with the partitioner in Virtuabox. Good luck05:13
personwhomightbethank you - i will. is there another channel for newbie questions that are distro-agnostic like this that i could ask in also?05:14
n4dirpersonwhomightbe: you could ask in #linux for sure.05:15
personwhomightbethank you! man it's been years since i've been on irc05:16
n4dirpersonwhomightbe: sooner or later someone here will be around too. Again: good luck. I got to run now05:17
gnarfacepersonwhomightbe: you have two options; you can either install a linux filesystem driver in your windows install, or you can make a spare partition on the second drive that's formatted as a windows drive - it should be easy enough to figure out how after selecting "manual partitioning" at the disk partitioning step05:32
gnarfacei concur that it's probably a good idea to practice this in virtualbox a bit since you have that working already05:35
n4dirthough, during the partitioner, during installation, you can fiddle with it too, and if you don't hit "Yes, do as i said", nothing will happen.05:36
personwhomightbeok - so the linux filesystem driver would let me access the files on the second linux formatted ssd?05:36
n4dirso it is not too dangerous, but if you don't know the installer well, it is not clear. So look in Vbox and spot the "Yes, do as i say" part05:37
n4dirit is of the few things in the installation process where you have to change the default from no to yes, iirc05:37
n4dirso you sure can't hit "enter" and it will happen, though you didn't want it05:37
n4diryou have to make a choice to do it.05:38
n4dirshort: look very close in VBox how that happens, and when05:38
personwhomightbeok - will definitely test that out. now the second thing: how do i make sure i can choose which os to start my computer with? i believe installing grub will be necessary but i haven't done this before and don't want to brick windows05:40
personwhomightbewait it looks like linux supports nfts so it might be better to have it set up that way than rely on windows drivers to actually work05:42
personwhomightbetest16:46
fluffywolftest failed, we never got it.16:49
personwhomightbelol16:50
personwhomightbeit's been a literal decade since i was on irc and it gives me such fuzzy feelings16:51
fluffywolfwelcome back, then!16:53
personwhomightbethanks! :)16:53
personwhomightbenow to create a proper account and all that16:54
gnarfacepersonwhomightbe: fyi linux supports ntfs but not very well, historically. you would be better off with fat32 or exfat, if you decide to go that direction.17:00
gnarfacei'm not sure how trustworthy the native windows drivers for linux filesystems are, so i can't tell you if that approach would be better overall or not17:02
gnarface(it would probably limit your choice of filesystem too, as i think only a couple have drivers, and i think they're 3rd-party offerings)17:03
personwhomightbehmm17:04
personwhomightbeso would i be able to creaate an exfat partition for storing files in linux that can be accessed/modified in windows?17:04
gnarfaceyes17:05
gnarfacenot that i've tried this myself since windows98se, but it should work fine17:06
personwhomightbeGreat! so there would be the normal multiple partitions of the secondary drive (1tb total) and then, say, half of it as exfat for sharing files between them17:06
gnarfacesure17:06
personwhomightbeawesome17:07
personwhomightbevastly prefer that than using some sort of linuxreader that's not foss - would prefer to keep things separated17:07
gnarfacewell, the linux filesystems are better at preventing data corruption but then you'd have to rely on a sketchy 3rd party driver so there's at tradeoff either way17:07
personwhomightbei didn't realize that - and my files have been corrupted in the past with windows. dangit. maybe i should do a smaller share thing so i could share stuff a bit at a time17:08
fluffywolfditch windows, make everything simple.  :P17:08
personwhomightbefor my next computer, certainly! but just starting out lol17:09
gnarfaceso, here's what i'm vague on... windows has a linux subsystem now, sort of the functional converse of Wine, right? is that only on windows11 though? could you not use that on windows10 to access the linux partitions?17:09
gnarfaceor does it only work on its own container space or something like that?17:10
gnarfacei haven't used windows in a really long time17:10
gnarfacejournaling is a key feature for a filesystem, and it's ethically shocking that windows still doesn't have it17:11
gnarfaceat the very least, i would say that putting a whole 50% of the 1TB drive to fat32 or exfat would be way overkill, and i would recommend if you go that approach to consider making it a much smaller percentage of the total drive space, and merely use it as temporary holding space for shuttling large files back and forth but not actually use it for permanent storage of anything important17:12
personwhomightbethank you - lemme check windirstat to see what the largest file i have in here is17:13
personwhomightbelack of journaling seems like something you'd do to make it less visible that changes were made tbh17:14
personwhomightbeso if i download the image via torrent is it necessary to verify the key?17:16
fluffywolfa working torent client should make sure everything is ok automatically.17:18
fluffywolfalso, someone actually using bittorrent for a non-copyright-infringing purpose?  blasphemy!17:19
gnarfacewell, "trust but verify" in general is a good ethos though17:19
personwhomightbetrue17:19
gnarfacebut i understand that key verification might be a PITA in windows17:20
personwhomightbei have to relearn the whole thing every time and even then i don't trust it tbh17:20
personwhomightbealso - is there a way to automatically verify an iso hasn't been corrupted while on a flash drive after i copy it?17:20
personwhomightbelike directly before install17:21
gnarfacesure, though i only know how to do it from linux...17:21
gnarfaceit might be easier if you start with a live iso, then you can use that for further sanity checks17:22
personwhomightbeis that the network one?17:22
gnarfaceno, the live iso is the all-in-one full desktop that runs off the disk without any install necessary17:22
gnarfaceit's useful for all sorts of stuff, from recovery to testing drivers/hardware17:23
personwhomightbeoh! would that allow me to set up the option to boot from either windows or linux also?17:23
gnarfaceyes, and it can also do installs, but its installation customization capabilities are significantly limited compared to the other ones one17:23
gnarfaceother ones*17:23
gnarfacehttps://files.devuan.org/devuan_daedalus/desktop-live/17:24
gnarfacemight be fun to try it either way17:24
gnarfacea side note: don't get confused about the "i386" vs "amd64" notation on these. you want the amd64 one for your hardware, even if it's an Intel brand CPU. everything Intel made after and including the core2duo is designated "amd64" in linux17:25
personwhomightbethank you! also why do they say to use http instead of https?17:27
gnarface(the i386 ones will still work fine but they'll limit your max total RAM if your motherboard isn't inherently doing that already, and they'll limit the length of a couple network counters in a way that might actually make your communications less secure)17:27
gnarfaceah, yes, about the http vs https thing, that's just because deb.devuan.org is a dns round-robin so it breaks SSL. you can still use https fine if you pick one of the mirrors in the list (http://deb.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt) that supports it directly by name17:28
personwhomightbewill definitely do the amd64 - thank you17:28
gnarfacesince all the packages are verified by gpg key before install anyway, it's not seen as a big problem for security to download them unencrypted, unless you're afraid people will find out you're using linux17:29
gnarfacewell, they'd be able to figure that out anyway by server IP, but unencrypted they'll also see what you're installing specifically17:31
gnarfaceand i certainly wouldn't begrudge that level of paranoia myself...17:32
personwhomightbemaybe i can download it via mx linux which i already have as a vm17:32
gnarfacecertainly you could, and it should be easier to do manual checksum verification and such there than windows17:33
personwhomightbeare there any web browsers that disable mouse tracking?17:39
personwhomightbei feel like for someone who cares about privacy i should probably be getting up to something nefarious17:45
gnarfacehmm, off the top of my head i'm not sure i've seen that particular javascript feature isolated as something you could disable, but i'm sure there's browsers that you can just blanket disable all javascript in, as well as some that don't support javascript at all and a couple that don't even support CSS17:52
personwhomightbei do use noscript generally - didn't realize mouse tracking was via javascript17:53
gnarfacewell, it can also be done in a limited fashion with CSS, but javascript is necessary if they really want to be able to regenerate your literal mouse path17:54
gnarfacecss will still expose hover states and such though17:54
gnarfaceand of course actual link clicks happen in bare http so they don't need css or javascript17:55
gnarfaceusually it is the banner ads doing this stuff rather than the site itself though, so if you just block banner ads you're usually safe from the worst of it17:56
gnarfacebut they'll know you're doing that too though, so the only way to really be safe is to not use websites that engage in such tomfoolery17:57
personwhomightbedo you have like a shortlist of decent sites that you check regularly? i'm more than a bit sick of tomfoolery rn18:04
gnarfaceheh, no, i don't. i don't trust anyone anymore18:04
gnarfacebut if the site has no banner ads and no shopping carts, that's a good sign they're not monetizing user traffic and therefor are probably not bothering to track this stuff18:05
gnarfaceso uh... paste.debian.net?18:05
gnarfacenot very useful, i know18:05
gnarfacemajor news sites and social networks are up to their eyeballs in the stuff. you can't trust any of them.18:06
gnarfacewhat i would recommend doing is to just keep separate users, or even separate whole OS installs, or at least even just separate browsers, so you can quarantine the one you use for "unsafe" browsing from the one you actually use to get work done18:09
gnarfaceyou can't trust your ISP not to spy on you and sell data about your traffic though, so you should also use a VPN, but that won't protect you from the VPN owners spying on you, so you have to set up a private server to host your own VPN, which basically just moves the threat to another network location, and starts to cost real money18:11
gnarface(and if your ISP is Comcast, they're also gonna throttle your VPN traffic down to a pinhole sized stream whether or not the current presidential administration has decreed it illegal this season or not)18:12
personwhomightbeand it's super fun because lots of sites you need use captchas that are primarily checking...oh darn, i just realized18:14
gnarfaceyea, i haven't seen a "captcha" implementation yet that didn't rely on javascript18:14
personwhomightbethey don't actually care about the identification of whatever, they want to identify you by the mouse movements if you're using something that's not already spilling your full dna code18:15
gnarfacesorry, the world's a mess and i can't fix it, but maybe at least i can help you get your games working in linux18:17
personwhomightbei have fond memories of that mario clone game with tux18:18
gnarfacehmm...18:20
personwhomightbenow looking up mouse movement randomizers to mess up that18:20
gnarfaceoh! supertux18:20
gnarfaceit's in the repos18:21
personwhomightbeyep! looking forward to that18:21
personwhomightbedo you use git for stuff? i feel like that's probably a super easy way to identify anyone18:22
lfluffywofI'm not much of a gamer, but at someone's recommendation, I've been slowly poking at Kitsune Tails.  it's another platformer, mario-inspired.  has linux version; is not foss nor free, alas.18:23
gnarfacesometimes git is unavoidable if you're building development software, yea i've used it18:26
gnarfacecvs and svn wouldn't be any different in that regard though18:27
personwhomightberunning ooni and finding all sorts of fun new sites to look at lol18:33
lfluffywofwhat's wrong with the cheap one I pasted?18:34
lfluffywofgrr, wrong window18:34
personwhomightbeis zeronet interesting at all? have seen it mentioned on and off for years but never made it on18:36
lfluffywofnever heard of it.18:36
personwhomightbealso - thoughts on encrypting while installing linux18:37
rustyaxedepends on how paranoid you are. it does incur a CPU usage for all disk activity18:38
gnarfacealso depends on what you're doing with the machine; encrypted disks provide almost no practical protection for a machine that's always on anyway18:40
gnarfacefor a disk that is unpowered that you are expecting might be stolen or confiscated it can be very useful, but the running system will have to be able to access the contents of the disk unencrypted so for a server it provides you almost no practical protection in exchange for the CPU overhead it incurs18:41
gnarfaceso like, good for phones and laptops maybe, otherwise i wouldn't bother18:41
gnarfaceanything you store shut down though, it might be worth it18:42
personwhomightbethank you - definitely doesn't make sense in my case18:43
personwhomightbeok so if i did control alt f4 and now i can't get back, what do i do?18:53
lfluffywofctrl-alt-f718:53
gnarfaceuh, depends on the release version18:54
gnarfaceat a certain point it changes from crtl+alt+f7 to ctrl+alt+f118:54
personwhomightbethank you so much!18:54
gnarface(that might also depend on the video driver setup too though)18:54
personwhomightbei tried f1 and f4 and was starting to really freak out18:54
gnarface(not sure)18:54
gnarfaceah, yea, F7 was the original18:55
personwhomightbealso holy cow ooni is taking friggin forever18:55
gnarfacenever heard of it18:55
lfluffywofa pizza oven company, according to google18:56
gnarfaceah18:56
personwhomightbehttps://ooni.org/18:56
lfluffywofnot even mentioned in the first two pages of google results.  perhaps google censors it?  :P18:57
personwhomightbewouldn't surprise me19:00
personwhomightbewhen i don't use google i do run into some nice russian psyop pages which are entertaining thouhg19:01

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