| targz | Congratulations \o/ and thanks for 10 years of hard work | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | It is quite a milestone! | 00:24 |
| raub | What is the default time client in devuan: ntp. chrony, etc? | 01:04 |
| freem | raub: in my opinion, ntpsec is a bad idea. I would not want to have a system's important service running 24/7 based on python. I have no intent to argue much on this point, but in short: I can *still* compile and run pppd, despite the many C standards which went by between it's birth and today. I have zero trust in any python application that this can be true. Another point is that I have *frequently* had missing dependences when trying python packages | 04:25 |
| freem | . This might have happened once or twice with other langs (orders of magnitudes in difference) and when it happens with python, it is a pain to identify which package is missing, you have to read the code. Using a native binary, you get a pretty obvious message about which dependency lack, and said message appears *right when program tries to start* to be opposed to when the interpreter find the one path which was not tested correctly. Some call C | 04:25 |
| freem | unsafe, I call rewriting applications in a lang such as python less safe. Back to question: chrony is written in C. ntp is a transition package toward "ntpsec" (yeah there's some guts here) written in python. | 04:25 |
| freem | It is likely that the default one people will go with is ntpsec, though. | 04:26 |
| freem | ntpsec [...] implemented-in::c, implemented-in::python, implemented-in::shell, | 04:27 |
| freem | really, how can a program be considered safe when it mixes _three_ langs? That just increase maintenance complexity... | 04:27 |
| * freem hopes he didn't went offtopic | 04:28 | |
| onefang | I basically agree, and I use chrony to. I suspect the one that is installed by default is ntp if you don't tell it otherwise. | 04:29 |
| freem | imo it's worst than that | 04:30 |
| freem | ntp is *silently* switched to a python crap | 04:30 |
| freem | or I should say ntpd. I used to use both ntpd and ntp-debian, depending on the kind of system I'm running... got chrony for one use, but still no sane replacement for 2nd | 04:31 |
| cirith_ungol | i think openntpd is default on some derivatives | 04:32 |
| freem | also, I want to express the fact that python is NOT a required component of the system. I used to have a parc of more than 250 street equipments running without it, for work. Now only my VPS. In both cases, I like to reduce dependences and *compiler tools* on systems which may be targeted. Not to mention, bandwidth is not gratis for everyone, in all situations, and having more deps can be a problem. | 04:32 |
| gnarface | raub: it's ntpsec in current stable | 04:33 |
| freem | (i.e. using radio-links: 2G to 5G, depending on geographic area and what network is available) | 04:33 |
| onefang | Going off topic. now I think. lol | 04:33 |
| freem | sorry :) | 04:33 |
| gnarface | freem: not completely off-topic but you kinda went off on a tangent while only implying the answer to the actual question | 04:33 |
| freem | my bad. I try to avoid doing that, but... | 04:34 |
| gnarface | feel free to rant about it in #devuan-offtopic | 04:34 |
| freem | nah, I should try to rant less, it's not healthy. | 04:34 |
| cirith_ungol | there are security cameras here | 04:34 |
| gnarface | i wasn't aware ntpsec was python! that makes me a bit leery too, but what broke my install wasn't the python part | 04:34 |
| freem | well, the reason I like aptitude's TUI is that: it allows to get a great overview of what's installed, and why. It has been an invaluable tool for me, and is what prevents me to stay on non-debian based distros | 04:35 |
| freem | I also try to keep deps minimal. Easier to read changelogs, when there are less of those. | 04:36 |
| freem | as for the 10 years... it's thus already 10 years ago I discovered runit! Thanks to the systemd drama on debian's ML :) | 04:40 |
| freem | I really thank the people (I don't remember the name) who mentionned this lovely tool. | 04:40 |
| Xenguy | Reminds me of a band named 10 Years After | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | I'll post a song in #-offtopic | 05:05 |
| systemdlete | I predict that someday runit will become ruinit. That is, if upstream keeps bending to certain whims... | 08:16 |
| * systemdlete runs away, knowning they have violated the first pinciple of this channel. | 08:17 | |
| freem | runit's upstream is not debian though. | 09:55 |
| systemdlete | archlinux? | 09:56 |
| systemdlete | freem, I've actually wanted to try out runit for a while now, along with skatey-8 other things... | 09:58 |
| freem | huh? There is no relation at all between archlinux and runit | 09:59 |
| freem | you could have said voidlinux, at least, they do have a maintenance effort on it | 10:00 |
| systemdlete | (I am trying to guess...) | 10:00 |
| freem | systemdlete: and what prevented you to try runit? | 10:00 |
| systemdlete | ok. I lost the game. | 10:00 |
| systemdlete | freem. Not much except time and patience | 10:00 |
| freem | critical resources indeed. | 10:01 |
| chomwitt | Happy birthday to Devuan project and it's supportive community. | 10:01 |
| systemdlete | And how old are we now? | 10:01 |
| freem | 10 years old apparently | 10:01 |
| systemdlete | whoopee | 10:01 |
| systemdlete | time to break out the champagne I guess... | 10:03 |
| systemdlete | night all | 10:07 |
| freem | gn | 10:07 |
| n4dir | it's really only 10 years? Feels even longer | 10:11 |
| freem | feels like yesterday to me :/ | 11:04 |
| n4dir | well, i went through quite a distro-hopping journey, so i guess that's what makes it feel so long | 11:06 |
| freem | might be | 11:06 |
| n4dir | it is like a different life, if that makes sense | 11:06 |
| * freem nods | 11:06 | |
| n4dir | the only stable factor between the old and the new linux-life is refracta. All the rest is kinda gone | 11:07 |
| n4dir | i was not really convinced devuan would really work in the long run. Thats why i tried different distros. It was all quite wild | 11:09 |
| n4dir | so, i guess the fact it, devuan, did make it, is quite something to be happy about | 11:09 |
| freem | indeed, it provides some sanity over debian's changes | 11:16 |
| morenonatural | hey, y'all | 17:53 |
| morenonatural | tried to install this theme https://store.kde.org/p/1229162 in daedalus, but not sure how | 17:53 |
| morenonatural | tried a local (prefix=$HOME/.local) install of ocs-url, but no dice | 17:54 |
| morenonatural | and no idea how to get the ocs:// url from that page | 17:54 |
| fsmithred | morenonatural, did you try 'apt install materia-kde' ? It's in the repo. | 18:09 |
| AlexLikeRock | hi morenonatural | 18:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | where say about ocs-url ??? | 18:19 |
| morenonatural | AlexLikeRock, ocs-url 👉🏾 https://www.opencode.net/dfn2/ocs-url | 18:55 |
| morenonatural | fsmithred, oh, that's useful... it might patch my situation for the time being | 18:56 |
| paculino | https://xcancel.com/TheBobPony/status/1862196045356122435?t=fbAaR5q7wswACW6P8YNgCw&s=19 It looks like Windows is upsetting more people again. Will there be a surge for everyone else? | 22:54 |
| golinux | paculino: That should probably be in #devuan-offtopic | 22:56 |
| paculino | Whoops, sorry. For the future, is stuff that is about *nix for there only? | 22:58 |
| paculino | (As in, not specifically devuan, but still applicable?) | 22:58 |
| golinux | Yes. This channel is Devuan-specific | 23:04 |
| cirith_ungol | thankful for devuan on thanksgiving | 23:20 |
| golinux | cirith_ungol: :) | 23:44 |
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