libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2024-10-06

Guest2is there an lts version of devuan00:10
Guest2nvm you guys seem to have the releases which is neat00:13
fsmithredlts is mostly about kernel support, and we use debian kernels, so we're on their schedule for lts00:16
dvbsthello15:45
dvbstso after an upgrade from 4 to 5 everytime i switch ttys to anything other than 7, it puts me back to 7 after less than 2 seconds15:46
dvbstand it wouldnt be a problem if there was a gui that worked there15:46
dvbstbut it doesnt work (because new kernel so no nvidia drivers) and to fix it i usually go to other tty and fix it there15:47
dvbstbut i cant do that now15:47
dvbstso i chrooted from a livecd and tried to do stuff there15:47
dvbstand the nvidia installer complains about everything and i think its just impossible to do it from a chroot15:48
dvbstwhat do i do?:15:48
fsmithredboot the old kernel15:53
fsmithredor go into chroot and remove nvidia driver, boot with nouveau, and then reinstall nvidia driver15:54
fsmithredare you installing nvidia from repo packages or from nvidia's binary?15:54
Alverstonegnarface, uupdate failed because there is no debian/changelog in the linux-source package16:53
Alverstoneidk why tbh16:53
dvbsti cant do anything on the old kernel because it teleports me to tty716:53
Alverstoneig i just compile pristine and not give a single damn about it16:53
dvbsti switch to any other tty and right after that it switches back to tty716:54
dvbstand i cant change to nouveau and install the normal one because it doesnt support my gpu so i get no output with nouveau16:56
dvbsti would just need to stop the display manager (lightdm in my case i think) from spamming me to tty717:07
gnarfaceyou can just run /etc/init.d/lightdm stop17:10
gnarfaceneed to make sure you have the xinit package though so you can run startx17:11
dvbsti cant run /etc/init.d/lightdm stop because i cant run anything at all17:22
dvbstunless i can do that in chroot and itll take effect on reboot17:22
gnarfaceno, but in a chroot you could just run ls -l /etc/rc*.d/*lightdm*17:29
gnarfacethen change all the symlinks names that start with a S to start with a K instead17:29
gnarfaceit could be done with the tools sysv-rc-conf or update-rc.d too, if you have either installed17:30
gnarfacesysv-rc-conf is easy to figure out, update-rc.d isn't as easy to figure out17:30
gnarfacei personally think changing the symlinks by hand is easiest but ymmv17:30
gnarfaceAlverstone: i think dch is the tool for updating the changelog, it's picky about the format but you only need to add 1 entry17:40
gnarfacebut if the vanilla kernel works for you that's fine17:40
Alverstonegnarface, no, the point is that linux-source binary package does not have a debian/ directory17:44
Alverstoneyou need to do apt source linux17:44
Alverstoneand that's...17:44
Alverstonea lot of extra work for nothing as I see it17:44
Alverstonebecause packaging for apt/dpkg is overcomplicated17:44
Alverstonebut I suppose it might work17:45
AlverstoneHow long for kernel to compile?17:47
buZznot very long on any modernish system17:50
Alverstonehow modernish17:53
buZzeven a core2duo should be able to do it in 30 minutes17:54
Alverstonedoes make binpkg-deb include headers in the deb file?18:05
AlverstoneI mean stock kernel source ofc18:08
cousin_luigiYesterday, during an update, I saw a kernel release being obsoleted. Is it a regular thing or perhaps there's something wrong with that particular release?18:25
fsmithredcousin_luigi, I think apt just keeps the kernel it replaces and gets rid of any older ones. They take up a lot of space if they accumulate.18:28
cousin_luigifsmithred: Well, it wasn't automatically removed, it just told me about it. There's an even older release installed, but it wasn't mentioned.18:29
cousin_luigiShould I remove both by hand?18:29
fsmithredapt autoremove should do it18:30
rwpThe normal configuration is that linux-image-amd64 is installed and currently it Depends: linux-image-6.1.0-26-amd64 (= 6.1.112-1) and when linux-image-amd64 is upgraded it always pulls in the newer kernel.18:30
rwpThe older kernel being an automatically installed package is now a candidate for "apt-get autoremove --purge" to remove from the system.18:30
fsmithredaptitude will remove stuff automatically, apt and apt-get will tell you to autoremove.18:30
fsmithredwow thats a bad sentence. ^^^18:31
cousin_luigifsmithred: That did the trick, tyvm.18:31
fsmithredit's a good idea to keep the kernel that got replaced in case the new one has problems. Keeping older ones is generally not necessary.18:32
fsmithredmaybe if you have one that's special for some reason.18:32
rwpIIRC there is some trick implemented so that the one previous kernel is not a candidate for autoremove.  But I don't remember exactly how that is implemented off the top of my head.18:33
rwp"dpkg -l |grep linux-image-" and I always have the current kernel and the immediately previous kernel installed without doing anything special.18:34
fsmithredyeah, there are some apt configs somewhere else, maybe /usr/share.18:34
rwpAnd also the linux-image-amd64 metapackage, which will of course be a different metapackage for those using one of the other metapackages.  Concepts the same on those too.18:35
Alverstonehow the heck can your core2duo compile the damn thing in 30 minutes19:04
rwpIt's been since 2011(?) I think but I was working on a superfast 160-core CPU system with 512GB of RAM and it would compile the entire Linux kernel and link it in less than 1 minute.  It was fabulous.  But everything was in memory and there were many CPU cores to do it.19:18
AlverstoneWell I'm nearing 2 hous19:19
Alverstonehours19:19
rwpThere are a lot of available modules.  Compiling the entire suite of them will take a lot of time.  And you won't be running modules for hardware you don't have.  But a default compile will compile all of them in order to create a kernel with all of the modules which can then run anywhere.19:26
joergneeds sufficient RAM19:26
rwpI forget the configuration now off the top of my head but it is possible to compile just the modules for the hardware you are using and then the amount of compile work needed is reduced dramatically.19:26
AlverstoneDoesn't take RAM so far, just a whole lot of CPU time19:26
joergthe RAM is used for buffering19:27
rwpInvestigate how to compile just the modules you are using and needing for your system and that will speed things up for the next compile hugely.  For now I would just let it run and go make a sandwich.19:27
rwp+1.  RAM for file system buffer cache is critically important.19:27
joerg^^^ :-)19:27
joergalso iirc there's a surprisingly _low_ +j(?) value sweet spot19:29
rwpI look at the bar graph presented by "htop" for memory.  If it doesn't have half of the bar in yellow for buffer cache then I know the system just does not have enough RAM for the tasks I am asking it to do.19:29
AlverstoneI'm afraid I won't stuff another sandwich in me with a hammer19:30
rwpRight!  For a Core 2 Duo I might start with -j2 right at the start.  (Many will think -j3 for a 2-core.)  But each -j job process multiplies the memory needed.19:30
Alverstone3/4 of my bar is yellow19:31
rwpExcellent!19:31
Alverstone4/4 of my face is soon gonna be red19:31
Alverstone:)19:31
rwpHow much total RAM on that system?19:32
AlverstoneIf it doesn't make the header files in a deb file I'm gonna explode19:32
rwpI'll guess that with a Core 2 Duo you have 4GB of RAM and I think that should complete the task okay.  Just be patient.  A watched pot never boils.19:33
Alverstonerwp, the compiler has around 10GB completely dedicated to its use19:33
Alverstonedpkg-deb is running19:34
AlverstoneI just pray it doesn't build the whole thing again ;)19:34
Alverstoneawww yeah it makes all the deb packages I need19:35
Alverstonenow lets just pray it works19:35
rwpTo save me from needing to scan the scrollback, remind me why you are compiling it locally?  It's fine of course.  I'm just curious.19:35
AlverstoneI'm insane19:37
Alverstonejk19:37
Alverstone6.10 breaks my wifi chip19:37
Alverstone8188eu19:37
Alverstonerealtek19:37
Alverstonewanna stay with 6.519:37
Alverstonenot as sweet in terms of security updates but linux doesn't have security anyway19:37
Alverstonewhy care19:38
rwpAnd installing linux-image-6.1.0-26-amd64 from Devuan 5 Daedalus and installing security upgrades from there is too boring?19:38
Alverstone6.1 has a bug when my laptop doesn't shutdown sometimes. They did some stupid thing to ACPI or whatever which got reverted later. Have to hold the button till it truly poweroffs. Stupid19:41
AlverstoneBTW do you remember which package makes the /vmlinuz symlink?19:41
Alverstonethere is one, I know it, I've read the manpage once19:41
Alverstoneupdate-linux-symlinks19:43
Alverstonelinux-update-symlinks*19:46
rwpI have "do_symlinks = no" in my /etc/kernel-img.conf file.  I don't have those symlinks in root.  They are too messy for my eyes to look at. :-/19:46
rwpGRUB does not need them.19:47
Alverstoneos prober is my enemy19:49
rwpI also set GRUB_DISABLE_SUBMENU=y in /etc/default/grub because for my sensibilities hiding those away makes the GRUB boot menu UI more confusing not less.19:49
Alverstonebecause it only has blacklist19:49
Alverstoneno whitelist19:49
Alverstonestupid19:49
rwp"apt-get purge os-prober" solves the os-prober problem here.  (Debian has a fix in place that Ubuntu is missing by the way.)19:50
AlverstoneI just disable it19:50
rwp(In Ubuntu even with the os-prober purged it still complains about GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER due to a code ordering bug in /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober .  That is fixed in Devuan/Debian.  Yay!)19:51
Alverstonewish me luck, I'm hitting the reboot button19:53
Alverstonewell no luck, right?19:58
Alverstonewhat the heck19:59
Alverstone /bin/init missing19:59
Hurgotrono.o19:59
rwpThat seems like an unrelated failure.  You can boot manually with init=/bin/bash and then repair things.20:02
Alverstoneare you kidding me, runit supervision tree inherits the whole tty120:08
Alverstonesame bug as in Void20:08
Alverstonedo you guys enjoy shutting down your system by hitting <sysrq>+K on tty1?20:09
AlverstoneI don't20:09
AlverstoneBecause my main user always sits on tty120:09
* Xenguy has extra cheese to donate...20:19
Alverstonei bullied it into booting20:39
Alverstonenow i need real help20:39
Alverstonewhat's the purpose of /etc/sv?20:39
Alverstonehow do i install runit services? /var/service?20:39
Alverstonehow do i add a script to be run at boot time in a safely manner?20:40
Alverstoneand why no manpages?20:40
fsmithredAlverstone, how many ttys do you have? I seem to recall that runit only makes one by default. I have six, but I don't know if I made 2-6 or if they came in with runit services or if they were always there.20:42
Alverstoneidk i don't care how many since i can always make more if somebody answers the above questions ;)20:42
Alverstonei added `exec </dev/null >/dev/null 2>/dev/null` before runsvdir in /etc/runit/2 to fix the issue20:43
Alverstoneseems to wokr20:43
Alverstoneseems to work*20:43
XenguyYou mean 'workaround' ?20:43
Alverstoneit's a fix!20:43
Alverstonethere are 0 reasons for runit to inherit a tty20:44
XenguyNot unless the bug is reported20:44
Alverstonewell who do I report it to?20:44
fsmithreddebian20:44
Alverstoneand why would they care, since they use systemd?20:45
Alverstoneanyway i didn't think it's an issue with more than one distro20:45
fsmithredIf you want to verify that it's a bug and not a misconfiguration, you can post to the devuan forum and the debian maintainer for runit will likely answer.20:45
Alverstonethat could probably be documented somewhere20:45
Alverstoneyou mean debian forum?20:46
fsmithredit would surprise me if void and debian/devuan had the same problem with runit, because they are set up differently20:46
Alverstonedidn't see devuan has one20:46
fsmithredno20:46
fsmithredI mean dev1galaxy.org.20:46
fsmithredI don't know if Lorenzo hangs out at the debian forum.20:46
XenguyI don't know the specifics of your use case, but when there are bugs to report, see bugs.devuan.org (I think)20:46
fsmithredbut he does sometimes post to our forum.20:47
Alverstonewhich topic20:47
AlverstoneXenguy, my use case is not having my system shutdown when <sysrq>+K on tty120:47
fsmithredmaybe Hardware and System Config20:47
XenguyWhy would that even matter?20:47
fsmithredthat key combo should only kill the xserver20:48
Alverstoneexactly20:48
Alverstonenot the system20:48
fsmithredif I can find a runit live-iso on a usb stick, I'll boot hardware and see if I can reproduce it.20:49
fsmithredfound one. couple minutes...20:51
fsmithredoh, it's chimaera not daedalus.20:52
AlverstoneI use excalibur20:53
Alverstonebtw20:53
XenguyHow do you spell so well?20:53
fsmithredwho, me?20:54
Alverstonespell what, fireballs? well linux does teach you a bit of wizardry20:54
fsmithredlol20:54
fsmithredI do not have a runit iso for excalibur20:55
AlverstoneOK I registered on the forum20:55
Xenguywizards FTW20:55
fsmithredbut I do have an excalibur install on hardware.20:55
fsmithredI will fuck with it and see what happens.20:55
Alverstonebtw I remember on void there was nanoklogd, a logging daemon that AFAIK logs kernel messages20:56
Alverstoneanything like that on Devuan?20:56
XenguyIsn't that standard logging20:57
Xenguy?20:57
AlverstoneI don't know really.20:57
AlverstoneWhat do you mean 'standard'?20:57
fsmithred /var/log/syslog and /var/log/kern.log20:58
Xenguyyeah20:59
fsmithredI'm not sure I want to proceed with installing runit...21:00
fsmithredserious bugs of runit (→ 2.1.2-59) <Pending Upload>21:00
fsmithred b1 - #1073780 - src:runit: move aliased files from / to /usr (DEP17)21:00
fsmithredserious bugs of runit-init (→ 2.1.2-59) <Pending Upload>21:00
fsmithred b2 - #1073780 - src:runit: move aliased files from / to /usr (DEP17)21:00
fsmithredAlverstone, do you see stuff in / that should not be there?21:00
Alverstonenope21:01
Alverstonefsmithred21:01
Alverstonemy / is all right21:02
Alverstoneat least when not booted21:02
Alverstone:)21:02
fsmithredok, I installed runit-init and I see six ttys in /etc/sv21:03
AlverstoneI accidentally closed browser and deleted my post21:03
fsmithredthat answers one of my questions21:03
fsmithredouch.21:03
fsmithredworse is when you spend half an hour composing it and you get logged out. I've learned to copy/paste before hitting the post button if it takes me a long time.21:04
fsmithredor hit the preview button every few minutes21:04
fsmithredboots to initramfs prompt21:05
Alverstonefsmithred, offtop but I often just write the thing in a text editor, religiously hitting crtl+S every time I stop typing to recompose my thoughts.21:07
Alverstoneyeah initramfs prompt. maybe some modules are missing? happened once to me, don't remember why though21:07
fsmithredoh, this might have happened because I upgraded and got a new kernel but didn't reboot yet.21:11
fsmithredbooted to console login. That's not right.21:16
Alverstonedoesn't matter just hit sysrq+K21:16
fsmithredand it looks like after I log in the console gets spammed with syslog21:16
Alverstonebtw thanks for the forum, I see that rsyslog is buggy with runit, so I'll just go with socklog :)21:17
fsmithredok, I logged into tty2 and it hung on giving me a prompt, just like it did on tty1, but then the desktop finally came up on tty721:18
fsmithredok, here goes21:18
fsmithredalt-sysrq-k gives me a graphical login (lightdm)21:18
fsmithredsecond time it gives me black screen with cursor. I'll give it a few minutes to see what happens.21:20
Alverstonesysrq+k where exactly?21:23
AlverstoneI use console login with startx21:23
Alverstoneanyway21:23
Alverstonehttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=5254621:23
fsmithredI don't understand the question. I'm testing on a hardware install of excalibur with lxqt and lightdm21:25
Alverstone<sysrq>+K on tty121:25
fsmithredon the desktop21:26
fsmithredto kill X21:26
Alverstonewhich tty1 is the desktop on?21:26
Alverstonewhich tty*21:26
fsmithrednow I can't get to any tty21:26
fsmithredtty721:26
Alverstoneyou need tt121:26
AlverstoneI don't use graphical login managers21:26
fsmithredlemme see if I can ssh in21:26
Alverstonethey don't support rootless xorg and are bloat generally speaking21:27
rwpIt's normal for the /dev/console device to be attached to /dev/tty1 and so when I hear "console gets spammed with syslog" that sounds like normal activity to me.21:27
Alverstonewhat's the point?21:27
Alverstonelog should go to syslog21:27
Alverstonethen to grep21:27
Alverstonewhat's the usecase of having tty1 half unusable21:28
fsmithredrwp, didn't that used to be on tty4?21:29
rwpThere is the system log and there is the system console.  Those are different things.  Also Devuan/Debian does not set a dmesg level which is probably your problem.  Other systems like RH set it so probably you should set it too.21:29
rwp"dmesg -n5" is usually sufficient.21:29
rwpfsmithred, At install time in the debian-installer they redirect system messages to vt tty4 or to the screen tab 4 depending upon which is active at the time.21:30
fsmithredok, I disabled lightdm and rebooted21:31
rwpWhen operating on the system console it is not unusual to get a console message and then after reading it need to Control-L to redraw the screen.21:31
fsmithredlogged in and now I'm waiting for a command prompt to appear21:31
fsmithredconfirmed your bug21:32
rwpWhen using runit I did run into a runit startup bug that I don't recall exactly the detail but the effect is that bash can't do job control and complains about it loudly.  I hacked a fix in on my test machine for it and I am sure I could recreate it.  My runit test machine is broken right now.  I would need to create another to reproduce it.21:32
fsmithredalt-sysrq-k on tty1 leads to...21:33
fsmithredI thinkit's off21:33
fsmithredyup. poweroff.21:33
fsmithredNot good. My power button is flaky.21:33
fsmithredok, it started21:34
fsmithredI'm gonna get rid of runit. Anything else you want me to test with it first?21:34
Alverstonenope21:36
AlverstoneAnyway I hope Lorenzo will explain, and if I am wrong I'll just stick to my workaround 'cause that's what I expect it to do :D21:37
AlverstoneStill uncool that it's not documented anywhere, there might be others21:37
fsmithredcheck for bug reports at bugs.debian.org21:37
fsmithredmight be known21:37
rwpI worry that your workaround breaks the logging to the system console.  Which I would then file as a bug.21:39
Alverstoneyes no logs on system console apparently21:43
Alverstonebut IIRC it should be logged elsewhere21:43
Alverstonedmesg maybe21:43
Alverstone?21:43
AlverstoneOr maybe somehow redirect the thing to tty1021:44
AlverstoneSo it doesn't mess with my workflow21:45
AlverstoneBut how?21:45
XenguyHow now brown cow21:48
rwpI have not fully grok'd the operation of runit and the others of that design.  It's on my too long to-do list to happen one day though.21:49
Alverstonehttps://superuser.com/questions/30123/terminal-with-real-time-dmesg-output21:50
AlverstoneI feel stupid now, isn't syslogd like vlogger? I mean it's socklogd that actually writes logs no? Why syslog.conf?21:51
rwpI fear that superuser discussion is not fully thought out.21:52
rwpI'll share my reference notes on it.  https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/linux/kern_levels.h21:52
rwphttp://tuxthink.blogspot.com/2012/07/printk-and-console-log-level.html21:53
rwphttps://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/core-api/printk-basics.html21:53
rwpI set dmesg -n5 in my firewall startup but it could go in any local startup.  Red Hat sets it by default.  As I said Devuan/Debian does not set it and uses the Linux kernel default.  Which is open.21:55
fsmithredfinally back to normal. I had to install sysvinit-core a couple of times and also run fsck twice. Might be the hard drive it dying.21:57
fsmithredAlverstone, to answer a question you asked and probably figure out already, debian doesn't care about runit, but the debian maintainer for runit does care.21:58
Alverstonefsmithred, be S.M.A.R.T21:58
fsmithredyeah, I did smart already and it's the other drive that's dying21:58
rwp"smartctl -t short /dev/sda" sleep 120 then "smartctl -l selftest /dev/sda" ??21:58
fsmithred2400+ reallocated sectors21:58
rwpThat does not sound good.21:58
Alverstonefsmithred, yes I think with Lorenzo the issue will be resolved, he's a nice guy21:59
fsmithredyeah, that's why I switched to using this drive, but maybe smartd doesn't see the problem (or I don't know how to read it.)21:59
AlverstoneI think I figured it out. svlogd does log writing and sorting between different directories using syslog.conf. socklog writes to svlogd22:00
AlverstoneI hope I figured it out at least :D22:00
fsmithredyou do know that excalibur is still in testing, right? Probably won't be ready until next year.22:03
fsmithrednot even in freeze yet22:03
fsmithredholy shit, he answered already!22:07
fsmithrednope. My mistake. He answered something else.22:07
AlverstoneI don't want stable22:10
AlverstoneOr rather, I don't want stable now22:10
AlverstoneI've been stable for two years now22:10
AlverstoneI want to be testing22:11
Alverstoneat least for a while22:11
fsmithredThat's fine, as long as you know. Lots of updates and possibly some breakage occasionally.22:13
Alverstoneplz no breakage :'(22:16
XenguyAlverstone, Incorrect... you want stable22:16
XenguyWhy?22:17
AlverstoneXenguy, convince me :D22:17
XenguyCos it's stable22:17
XenguyFull stop22:17
Alverstoneyep been a breeze with Debian so far, but I want to roll for a while X_X22:17
XenguyI'm on oldstable in fact22:17
Alverstonewhy>22:17
Alverstonewhy?22:17
XenguyWhy not?22:18
Xenguy== stable22:18
AlverstoneWanna a fan fact?22:18
XenguyThe trailing edge22:18
AlverstoneVirtualbox 7.1 onwards uses qt6 which blasted my ass off, because qt6ct doesn't work in Debian yet22:18
XenguyAll the vulnerabilities arrive on the front end, don't they?22:18
Alverstoneand qt6ct isn't compatible with qt5ct22:18
Alverstoneqt upgrading every 2 years is just stupid22:19
AlverstoneXenguy, yep you're right22:19
XenguySorry you have to deal with virtualbox22:19
AlverstoneNo need to care about security too much22:19
XenguyBS22:19
XenguyNext22:19
Xenguy?22:19
Alverstone?22:19
Xenguy?22:19
Alverstonewtf did I install that my output for most utilities is not beautifully colored?22:20
AlverstoneI've never had this on Debian22:20
Alverstoneis now*22:20
XenguyNevertheless22:20
Alverstoneip r highlights ip addresses and such that's so cool22:20
fsmithredI don't know what does that22:21
fsmithredand I don't think I'm getting that (boot colors) on my excal.22:21
fsmithredif we have it, it's in trixie, too22:22
Alverstoneeven apt does a pretty printing22:24
fsmithredI do get the colors in ip's output22:24
Alverstonehuh maybe it's just what an update does to people like me22:24
fsmithredprobably borrowed from ubuntu22:24
AlverstoneTime to test my wifi driver gonna reboot. Probably won't reconnect because I want to sleep anyway :D22:25
Alverstonegood night22:25

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