| devuanconsumer_ | is there a command that i can put on start up applications that automatically starts me on workspace 2? | 00:21 |
|---|---|---|
| devuanconsumer_ | #focus,consistency,andconstantgrowth100%! | 00:26 |
| devuanconsumer_ | always for the win | 00:26 |
| fsmithred | log out on workspace 2 and make sure the box is checked for "save settings" in the logout popup window. | 00:53 |
| fluffywolf | I was going to say "chvt", but your answer is probably more relevant. lol | 01:26 |
| russtopia | Hello all | 05:51 |
| russtopia | I apologize for asking what is probably an FAQ (though I searched and have not found a good answer yet) | 05:52 |
| russtopia | .. issues using the latest daedelus desktop ISO to install via USB on a newish laptop and I hate UEFI :/ | 05:52 |
| rustyaxe | turned off secureboot for now? | 05:53 |
| russtopia | I had tried both with and without secure boot yes | 05:54 |
| russtopia | This is an ASUS Zenbook Duo 2024 UX8406 | 05:55 |
| russtopia | Furthest I got so far was using 'Pendrive Linux' installer and choosing grub2 mode when choosing the ISO | 05:55 |
| russtopia | .. but after boot preamble, things go wrong with | 05:56 |
| russtopia | mount: mounting LABEL=DEVUAN501 on /cdrom failed: No such file or directory | 05:56 |
| russtopia | Only convo I found online relating to this is at https://forums.ventoy.net/showthread.php?tid=2722 | 05:56 |
| russtopia | I have not done this in a long time -- is there a way to just 'dd' the ISO file to a raw USB key so that the volume label is as the Devuan installer expects? | 05:57 |
| Xenguy | When in doubt, simplify your use case? | 05:57 |
| rrq | russtopia: yes, do that. | 05:58 |
| russtopia | @rrq Hmm. Problem is, my *other* main Linux system seems to be refusing to mount a USB flash drive as just /dev/sda -- it'll mount partitions on the drive, but not the main /dev/sda | 05:59 |
| russtopia | (This system is already running Devuan) | 05:59 |
| rrq | you don't mount it. just copy (or dd) to /dev/sda | 05:59 |
| rustyaxe | the iso isnt laid out as one file system, thats why that happens | 06:00 |
| russtopia | .. I was considering digging out my old USB DVD burner and going old-sk00l to burn the .ISO but I wonder if such a new laptop will even run that :) | 06:00 |
| rrq | yes the ISO is a hybrid ISO so just copy/dd it to /dev/sda (or whatever the USB key is) | 06:00 |
| russtopia | ? Literally `cp devuan_image.iso /dev/sda` ? Wouldn't I need a filesystem, partition at least? | 06:01 |
| rrq | yes, literally. not filesystem; directly to the drive | 06:02 |
| rrq | the ISO includes a DOS partiion table, "hidden" without the iso9660 preamble | 06:02 |
| rrq | within | 06:02 |
| russtopia | OK. So I have then first the issue of: why is my current system, which handles USB keys just fine in Thunar etc., seems to refuse to keep the /dev/sda device attached when I insert a USB key, yet it will keep /dev/sda{1,2} etc. mounted ? | 06:02 |
| russtopia | If I cannot operate on the raw device (eg., fdisk -l doesn't even show /dev/sda when this key is inserted yet I can access /media/<user>/... of each partition) | 06:03 |
| russtopia | Re: ISO -- oh yeah, duh -- ISO will have that, OK. So I just need to figure out why my *current* system isn't making /dev/sda visible for the USB device as a whole? | 06:04 |
| rrq | use terminal | 06:04 |
| rrq | plug in USB | 06:04 |
| rrq | tail /var/log/syslog .. to see which /dev/xxx it has | 06:05 |
| russtopia | I did that, /var/log/messages was showing /sr0, scsi device /dev/sda, but then /dev/sda seemed not to stay mounted (while /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 did, and I can browse those). | 06:05 |
| rrq | forget about mounting. not mounting. it doesn't need to and shouldn't be mounted. you need to write to "/dev/sda" | 06:07 |
| rrq | best is to not mount it before writing, but it's not the end of the world... might upset thunar of course (if you care about that) | 06:08 |
| gnarface | i see a ventoy link up there... wasn't there a problem with daedalus in ventoy? | 06:08 |
| gnarface | like a known issue? | 06:08 |
| Xenguy | From my notes: | 06:08 |
| Xenguy | ## IMPORTANT! Always *unmount* thumb drive before dd'ing an ISO to it! | 06:08 |
| Xenguy | ## dd if=name-of-iso.iso of=/dev/sdb status="progress" | 06:08 |
| Xenguy | (Obviously I don't use ventoy) | 06:09 |
| rrq | ventoy keeps image files and doesn't present the as mountable partitions; there is amn attempted patch on the ISO but it's buggy | 06:10 |
| rrq | so best is to master the drive with the ISO | 06:10 |
| rrq | then that drive will have two "faces": ont eh one hand it's an is09660 filesystem, on the other it's a disk drive with 2 partitions | 06:11 |
| rrq | (the fist partition an iso9660 that spans the whole content; and the second a EFI/FAT volume with some boot equipments, contained within the iso9660) | 06:12 |
| rrq | a hybtid ISO | 06:12 |
| russtopia | OK well I will try just the plain ol' `dd` to /dev/sda then with the .ISO file. Thanks all for the help! | 06:13 |
| HackphiL | Le Salut à toutes et tous \o/ | 14:52 |
| drizzt | HackphiL: bonjour à toi (but this chan is not "devuan-fr", but worldwide #devuan, -> use english please) | 17:32 |
| HackphiL | comment faire quand on ne parle pas l'anglais | 17:33 |
| drizzt | HackphiL: join #devuan-fr | 17:34 |
| drizzt | (je viens d'aller dessus) | 17:34 |
| HackphiL | ya dégun | 17:34 |
| HackphiL | drizzt ~~> ya rien qui mount | 18:05 |
| HackphiL | failed to mmount the cdrom | 18:06 |
| HackphiL | drizzt ~~> impossible boot clef usb | 18:15 |
| HackphiL | laisse tomber drizzt je décarre d'ici | 18:16 |
| nemo | hm. openjdk 8 is only in unstable? | 18:24 |
| drizzt | nemo: isn't openjdk 8 pretty old ? | 18:25 |
| drizzt | (apt-cache search lists them up to openjdk-24) | 18:26 |
| drizzt | (looks like 2014'old) | 18:28 |
| drizzt | anyway, I see it in my ceres list indeed, going to check on a daedalus install | 18:29 |
| drizzt | daedalus main seems to have only -17 | 18:31 |
| drizzt | same with contrib (and non-free) added | 18:32 |
| drizzt | don't know why it shipped with only one version available | 18:32 |
| drizzt | but it's comming from debian, not specific to devuan. Debian bookworm only has -17 | 18:35 |
| drizzt | https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#view | 18:36 |
| drizzt | nemo: by the way, "unstable" doesn't mean you will experience crashes every now and then, only the package versions may change up to every day (debian name for "unstable" is "Still In Development (sid)") | 18:39 |
| fsmithred | also the character who breaks toys | 18:42 |
| drizzt | If you get a version running one day, it will keep on running fine, till you play with auto-upgrades (or upgrade by yourself) which will install new versions for some parts of the system, which you may need to test before using in production, but ceres/sid are really stable even for every-day use on a dev host) | 18:42 |
| drizzt | fsmithred: indeed, from time to time there's a problem here and there, but you'll need every-day auto-upgrades to spot them all :) | 18:44 |
| * fsmithred fears auto-upgrades | 18:44 | |
| drizzt | in maybe 15 or 20 years of using ceres (or sid when debian was still usable) I may have encoutered two or three major breakdowns (one recently, which concerns only arm64), and a few minor disapointments | 18:46 |
| drizzt | and these disapointments are always due to changes in individual projects, not crashes or "instabilities" | 18:47 |
| drizzt | changes wich you'll also face when changing from (old)stable to the new one anyway | 18:48 |
| drizzt | like gimp interface changes, or kicad changes to the storage format, and so on | 18:49 |
| drizzt | but using ceres allows you to spot these changes early, and possibly report them as potential problems to the dev team of each individual project | 18:49 |
| drizzt | nemo: still around here ? | 18:50 |
| nemo | drizzt: yes | 20:28 |
| nemo | drizzt: problem is that "unstable" packages may not play well with "stable" and, I definitely don't want to include them on production servers running devuan if I don't have to | 20:29 |
| nemo | drizzt: we have an Oracle java license specifically for all this oracle java crap and legacy, so we'll just use that I guess, since openjdk does not appear to be maintaining 8 anymore, but oracle is committing to do so for theirs until 2030-12-31 | 20:29 |
| nemo | drizzt: and, official statements like that are pretty important. | 20:30 |
| nemo | if Debian/Devuan were committed to security patches for JDK8 that'd be fine, but the lack of stable makes that a bit unlikely | 20:30 |
| freem | I think it is also in old-stable, but oldstable is not maintained anymore I think | 20:51 |
| freem | https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=bullseye&searchon=names&keywords=openjdk-8-jre | 20:51 |
| * freem keeps it around because of a java rpg game named hale | 20:52 | |
| fsmithred | the version of openjdk-8-jre in chimaera is the same version that's in ceres, and the last three changelog entries were April, April and July of this year. | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | security fixes | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | but mixing stable and oldstable may or may not work. You could also possibly backport it to daedalus. | 20:59 |
| drizzt | nemo: all of debian or devuan is not about providing "planned longterm support" on anything. | 23:26 |
| drizzt | If you need this kind of support, you have two alternatives : either refer to professionnal distributions and get a contract from them that states that what you need will stay supported for as long as you want, or hire an independant and pay him for backport and maintanance of openjdk 8 as long as you need it. | 23:28 |
| drizzt | But for Debian or devuan, you have 0 waranty that openjdk 8 will stay even till tomorow morning (that's exactly what the "unstable" means in the name of the "unstable flavor" of debian or devuan | 23:30 |
| buZz | if you want to longterm run some random foss project, i'd just call you crazy ;) | 23:30 |
| buZz | *specific version | 23:30 |
| nemo | drizzt: I think you're possibly misunderstanding me | 23:31 |
| nemo | drizzt: but no worries, I have no such expectation | 23:31 |
| drizzt | but if you need a distribution with openjdk 8, then you can just fork today's devuan/debian, run your tests, mark it as stable, and use in production for the next 6 years | 23:31 |
| nemo | drizzt: unless I am seriously misreading, openjdk is *NOT* being maintained for security patches | 23:32 |
| nemo | oracle jdk is | 23:32 |
| buZz | openjdk v23 is current | 23:32 |
| nemo | (not by you, but by the openjdk team) | 23:32 |
| nemo | buZz: openjdk 8 - in context of this discussion | 23:32 |
| nemo | regrettably a lot of stuff was written for java 1.8 | 23:32 |
| buZz | i dont think 'java' and 'security' ever went hand in hand :P | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | nemo, as I mentioned before, openjdk-8 has gotten security patches this year. Last in July, | 23:33 |
| nemo | buZz: eh. java itself has a lot going for it security-wise. it gets a bad rap due to sheer amount of use meaning a lot of bad code, and some poor decisions in applets and struts | 23:33 |
| fsmithred | same version is in ceres and chimaera | 23:33 |
| drizzt | nemo: I do not know about openjdk specifically, but if it's still in ceres/sid, then at least someone is maintaining the packages | 23:33 |
| drizzt | as for the content of the packages, refer to the maintainer :) | 23:34 |
| nemo | drizzt: it could be, doesn't give me a lot of confidence, and I'd just as soon not mix that stuff up | 23:34 |
| fsmithred | https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/o/openjdk-8/openjdk-8_8u422-b05-1_changelog | 23:34 |
| nemo | if it was in devuan stable it'd be another matter entirely | 23:34 |
| nemo | oracle *is* explicitly maintaining theres, and since we are forced to pay for it for unrelated reasons, might as well use it.. | 23:35 |
| nemo | *theirs | 23:35 |
| fsmithred | that makes sense | 23:35 |
| fsmithred | if it breaks, they get to fix it | 23:35 |
| nemo | yes | 23:35 |
| nemo | I do love the concept of linux distros though, and I feel there is a *lot* of non-free software out there that is not giving the army of maintainers nearly enough credit or compensation | 23:36 |
| nemo | and it makes my life sooooo much easier in terms of patching | 23:36 |
| nemo | ... a lot of non-free software that is raking in billions | 23:37 |
| nemo | up until some key volunteer is compromised like happened earlier this year | 23:37 |
| drizzt | nemo: what do you mean by "mix" ? | 23:38 |
| nemo | drizzt: I prefer to have, if possible everything on the servers be officially in stable. | 23:38 |
| nemo | it's one less thing to worry about | 23:38 |
| nemo | I've only made an exception to that once when samba was hopelessly broken | 23:39 |
| drizzt | nemo: I think that the term "stable" is greatly misunderstood | 23:39 |
| drizzt | unstable does not mean that packages are full of bug and about to crash every few minutes | 23:40 |
| nemo | aware. | 23:40 |
| nemo | you can run unstable on your servers. I barely even want to be a sysadmin and here I'm riding herd on a couple of dozen servers. I want things to change as slowly as possible and with minimal surprises | 23:40 |
| buZz | nor does stable mean its bugfree ;) | 23:40 |
| nemo | buZz: aware. | 23:40 |
| buZz | just chiming in | 23:40 |
| nemo | what I'm looking for is "as little change as possible" | 23:40 |
| buZz | stop installing updates? :D | 23:41 |
| nemo | reason I'm running devuan and not gentoo or arch | 23:41 |
| nemo | buZz: heh. yeah. and get flagged within a week for compliance with latest patches. no thanks | 23:41 |
| buZz | debian/devuan stable installs wont change a lot over its lifespan | 23:41 |
| nemo | buZz: aware. | 23:41 |
| nemo | ok. I reaaaally need to get back to work, sorry | 23:41 |
| buZz | isnt that what you want then? | 23:41 |
| nemo | buZz: yes. which is why I run that. | 23:41 |
| drizzt | as a matter of fact, if a bug is found in "stable" after it's release, it will take very long before it's fixed | 23:41 |
| drizzt | while in unstable it's fixed very quickly | 23:42 |
| buZz | drizzt: yeah, took almost a week for cups :( | 23:42 |
| nemo | yeah. unless ofc it's a vulnerability. which is all I care about | 23:42 |
| nemo | so long as those get patched we're good. otherwise, move as slowly as possible thanks. | 23:42 |
| nemo | at home I use gentoo, devuan and arch. at work, just devuan. | 23:42 |
| nemo | and stable only | 23:42 |
| drizzt | but if you're looking for "stability" as "no changes", then install latest unstable, run your tests, and never upgrade | 23:42 |
| nemo | ... | 23:42 |
| nemo | dude | 23:42 |
| nemo | right. back to work byeeee | 23:43 |
| buZz | drizzt: haha yeah ,thats what i heard too :D | 23:43 |
| drizzt | this is pretty much as stable as the "Stable" release | 23:43 |
| nemo | 17:41 < nemo> buZz: heh. yeah. and get flagged within a week for compliance with latest patches. no thanks | 23:43 |
| nemo | bye | 23:43 |
| buZz | so you want -some- changes but not all ;) | 23:43 |
| drizzt | nemo: bye :) | 23:43 |
| drizzt | hope you'll find a solution :) | 23:44 |
| drizzt | but as a matter of facts, the systems on which I've had most problems were those running "stable" flavors, when I finally had to install something new, either after the stable had moved to "old stable" (or worse), or axactly as in this case, when it was not yet in "stable" | 23:47 |
| drizzt | but I've never had "instability" problems on my servers or any other systems running sid/ceres | 23:48 |
| drizzt | only upgrade problems on machines I've left behind for too long (same problem as with old forgotten stable ones in fact) | 23:49 |
| rrq | please, could we keep this channel for "support issues" and do musings at #devuan-offtopic | 23:50 |
| drizzt | as for the real "stability", using the "stable" flavor does not mean you can install and run in production without running any test | 23:50 |
| drizzt | rrq: sorry :( | 23:50 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!