| Xenguy | There's a text file that I tripped across recently that lists the equivalencies between Debian and Devuan releases, and now I've lost track of it. Anyone know the name of that file? | 00:56 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | you mean just the release names? i thought it was up on wikipedia... | 01:00 |
| rwp | I can send you a mapping file that I keep for myself. | 01:00 |
| Xenguy | Of course, it is up on the Devuan web site too (devuan.org/os/releases) but this was a short text file in the system somewhere. Damn why didn't I make a note of it? | 01:01 |
| rwp | Xenguy, https://paste.debian.net/plain/1329768 | 01:01 |
| Xenguy | It listed release dates also | 01:01 |
| gnarface | oh, actually in the install? i didn't know about that | 01:01 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, shocked the hell out of me when I tripped on it | 01:01 |
| djph | Xenguy: ehwot? | 01:02 |
| Xenguy | rwp, Thanks but I'm looking for a particular text file on my system | 01:02 |
| rwp | I didn't know there was a file in the install listing it. | 01:02 |
| Xenguy | Nor did I, but if found me and then I lost it ; -) | 01:03 |
| Xenguy | s/if/it | 01:03 |
| gnarface | seems like it would be something in /usr/share/doc/ maybe? | 01:03 |
| djph | /etc/os-release ? | 01:03 |
| Xenguy | djph, That just shows the current release I believe | 01:03 |
| Xenguy | This file showed all the releases, Debian/Devuan equivalencies, and also the dates the Devuan releases were issued | 01:04 |
| Xenguy | I guess it's a bit of a mystery file, but I'm looking for it now; if I find it I'll post here, just thought someone might have run across it. I don't think I just dreamed the whole thing up ; -) | 01:04 |
| rwp | I know this isn't what you are looking for but this is my tracking of releases with dates: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1329769 | 01:10 |
| rwp | Good luck with the file hunt. I would be interested in knowing when you find it! | 01:10 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: maybe try this: zgrep -ni 'beowulf' /usr/share/doc/*/* | 01:11 |
| gnarface | (guessing that if it's in there, it won't show up many times aside from the file you mention) | 01:12 |
| gnarface | or if you can remember a more specific and unique string from the file contents, use that instead of 'beowulf' | 01:12 |
| gnarface | shame zgrep doesn't support recursion, i wonder why? | 01:12 |
| rwp | zgrep is "just a lame script wrapper" around grep. It could be better. It is just a quick hack someone wrote. | 01:13 |
| rwp | find /usr/share/doc -type f -exec zgrep -i beowulf {} + | 01:13 |
| gnarface | huh, interesting.... | 01:14 |
| gnarface | i knew the thing about zgrep, but i mean that's an interesting use of find i wasn't aware of | 01:14 |
| gnarface | i guess i should read that man page... | 01:15 |
| rwp | Hold-up! I got to show gnarface something new today? I am marking the calendar right now! :-) | 01:15 |
| gnarface | hehe, i don't know everything, that's for sure | 01:15 |
| Xenguy | gnarface, Thanks, returns a couple screens, but I still can't spot it, dang why didn't I make a note | 01:16 |
| rwp | I also wanted to soften my complaint about zgrep. zgrep a fine quick script to have been written. But since it isn't a complete solution it's always going to feel a little rough. | 01:16 |
| rwp | Also there has been a push (by I can't remember zutils?) to include a better generic z* set of commands that would handle all of the compressed and archived file formats. But the gzip project doesn't want to give it up. So it will EITHER be the gzip version of zgrep (not so good) or the zutils version of zgrep (better) depending upon what is installed. | 01:19 |
| rwp | Meanwhile... "find" is totally awesome and will do almost anything related to finding files. | 01:21 |
| gnarface | the man page is... humbling | 01:22 |
| rwp | That's the problem with man pages. They are good reference documents if you already pretty much know how to run something but just need to look up spelling or something. They make terrible tutorials. | 01:23 |
| rwp | Also find has a totally non-unix non-standard option format. Because it is one of the few unix programs that was written under contract to a spec that was furnished. So it is different from the rest. | 01:24 |
| rwp | The first set of args are paths to search down. | 01:25 |
| rwp | Followed by logical AND expression predicates testing things like -type f if it is a file not a directory or symlink or socket or other. | 01:25 |
| rwp | Actions such as -exec are then followed by a command followed by either "{} +" or "{} \;" (\; must be quoted due to ; and shell metacharacter but + is okay unquoted). That runs the command with as many files as will fit on the command line when using {} + the most efficient form. With {} \; it runs the command once per file argument, not so fast nor efficient. | 01:27 |
| rwp | It's a logical AND expression left to right. If at any point the predicate is false then processing on that file stops and moves to the next file. | 01:27 |
| rwp | To make it a logical OR use -o such as "find . \( -name '*.txt' -o -name '*.html' \) -exec grep foo {} + | 01:28 |
| rwp | And that's enough to get you going with find! I use it all of the time so AMA about it. | 01:28 |
| gnarface | thanks! that's helpful, that will help a lot if i can remember to use it next time i need it for something like this | 01:30 |
| gnarface | that will probably even help me make better use of the man page | 01:31 |
| DFP | You can also `cc $(find src -name "*.c")`. Ahem. | 01:31 |
| Xenguy | Well I've search high and low for that file and I can't find it; it's a mystery. Serves me right for letting it slip through my fingers | 01:53 |
| Xenguy | When the holy grail shows up, capture it somehow! | 01:53 |
| unclouded | find is cool. I have a wrapper script called find-latest that just shows the 10 most recently modified files. Very handy for seeing if backups are up to date, or finding which project I was working on last. | 02:00 |
| rrq | Xenguy: do you mean like the "compare packages" table of distrowatch? | 02:32 |
| rrq | no, that doesn't have dates... | 02:34 |
| Xenguy | rrq, I'm really kicking myself for not noting this file | 02:37 |
| Xenguy | I don't even know how I ran across it, but it had the release dates and everything... | 02:37 |
| Xenguy | It was kind of like the /etc/os-release file that someone else mentioned, but it had the complete history and equivalencies | 02:37 |
| Xenguy | And a very succinct file also | 02:38 |
| rrq | and it's not /var/log/dpkg.log ? | 02:38 |
| Xenguy | Apparently not, that file is way longer than the short little thing I saw | 02:39 |
| rrq | I suppose if you know some text in it you could try a grep -r | 02:42 |
| rrq | ideally distinctive text :) | 02:42 |
| rwp | It's only some machine time. grep and grep and grep again until it turns up. | 02:42 |
| Xenguy | The way the file turned up suddenly and then disappeared somehow off my system is a bit disconcerting, but hopefully it'll find itself found again one day | 02:45 |
| Xenguy | Or maybe I dreamed the whole episode ; -) | 02:48 |
| gnarface | nah, i'm pretty sure i remember seeing it too, probably because you pointed it out | 02:50 |
| gnarface | i don't remember where it was either, just that it was not recently | 02:50 |
| fsmithred | grep -E "Beowulf.*Buster" | 02:54 |
| fsmithred | Or see if this one has what you want: https://termbin.com/fgua | 02:55 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, That's a nice summary (rwp had one too). Yeah, I know where to find the info (e.g. on the web site) but I just can't seem to find this particular mystery file, it's strange | 03:33 |
| fsmithred | Xenguy, that's a copy/paste of the page you posted from d.org | 03:34 |
| Xenguy | Yes, I think I understand, but ...? | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | is that the information you wanted and in the format you want? | 03:39 |
| fsmithred | also, I keep forgetting which debian B corresponds to devuan releases. | 03:39 |
| fsmithred | does it look like the one you remember? | 03:40 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, No, that's the thing, that's not the file I'm talking about; the one I'm talking about I can't find, and it did not originate on the Devuan web site. Don't worry about it, it's my fault I didn't capture it while I had the chance, and it's not a big ticket item anyway. Thanks for trying to help of course. | 03:42 |
| systemdlete | On chimaera, mailutils does not seem to require mariadb, but daedalus does. All I want is to use "mail" for sending messages locally from scripts, command line, etc. Why does this heretofore SIMPLE utility set suddenly require a database? | 07:57 |
| systemdlete | (I am asking rhetorically; obviously, there is now a dependency, which need NOT be stated) | 07:58 |
| systemdlete | What used to be simple is now complex. | 07:58 |
| al1r4d | hi all, who dng administrator? I sent my message and wont appear in lists.dyne.org ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯ | 08:07 |
| rkta | systemdlete: if you only need mail there is bsd-mailx which comes with minimal dependencies. | 08:08 |
| onefang | OK, finally done all the stuff that was keeping me busy yesterday, some of it spilled over into today. It's looking like only two package mirror problems happened, and my guess is they where local DNS issues. | 08:46 |
| onefang | On the other hand, now that I'm back, some do seem to be having issues now. | 08:48 |
| * onefang puts three DNS-RR mirrors on probation. | 08:49 | |
| onefang | Damn, just missed the update window. lol | 08:49 |
| onefang | Ah the first one was a mirror admin warned me before that their particular mirror would be down for maintenance several times this month. So I guess Guest6809 just got unlucky and hit a maintenance window. | 08:57 |
| onefang | The second one my guess is that there's not THAT many Devuan package mirrors, it's entirely possible that two people trying from different sides of the planet might get the same IP at the same time. | 09:02 |
| onefang | One of these days I'll actually dive deeply into the apt source code to see how it deals with DNS-RR, or if it just leaves it up to whatever resolv.conf points to to deal with that. Then I'll have more clue. Right now my clue is "Think the various DNS resolvers might handle DNS-RR in their own special way". | 09:04 |
| onefang | I need to deep dive the apt source code anyway, so I can tweak apt-panopticon to better suit any strangeness I might stumble across. apt-panopticon basically carefully measures every step of the process apt goes through to install a package. Hence the name. B-) | 09:07 |
| onefang | That's where the URL sanity test came from, I had already had a quick look at apt source code. | 09:09 |
| rwp | systemdlete, mailutils depends upon libmailutils9, which depends upon libmariadb3. libmariadb3 depends upon mariadb-common mysql-common, which totals up to 648 kB of additional disk space. | 09:17 |
| rwp | systemdlete, The best "mail" program though IMNHO is the one with bsd-mailx package. | 09:18 |
| CueXXIII | systemdlete: also, the ariadb-common mysql-common packages only contain some config files, not the database itself | 09:35 |
| CueXXIII | +m | 09:36 |
| freem | ok, I have something weird since I switched (few hours ago) to devuan in my sources.list: aptitude is ignoring it's own configuration options, by selecting for install "recommended" packages. | 16:38 |
| freem | (I always inspect those myself in the preview, so that I can avoid the bloat) | 16:39 |
| freem | oh | 16:40 |
| freem | it is apparently not devuan specific, that's new | 16:40 |
| freem | which means I'll have to take a serious look at my system to purge it now :/ | 16:42 |
| freem | it's even ignoring the apt configuration... damn it | 16:43 |
| amarsh04 | have you looked at the aptitude man page? | 16:46 |
| freem | https://p.mort.coffee/0U5.png | 16:47 |
| freem | man-pages are good when you search for something non-obvious, but this ^ hardly qualifies :) | 16:47 |
| freem | this *used* to work correctly, I have not read aptitude's documentation since years | 16:47 |
| freem | I see no other word to qualify this than: regression. | 16:48 |
| freem | I'll probably track that one later... | 16:48 |
| amarsh04 | brb, restarting to git-bisect a kernel issue | 16:50 |
| freem | have fun | 16:50 |
| freem | (and good luck) | 16:50 |
| freem | oh lol | 16:51 |
| freem | there's a broken dependency in kcachegrind, it might be the reason behind this weird aptitude behavior | 16:51 |
| freem | basically, it is possible to install it without installing dbus, but dbus would be pulled from the recommends of other dependences, but trying to run it in those conditions: | 16:52 |
| freem | kf.dbusaddons: DBus session bus not found. To circumvent this problem try the following command (with bash): | 16:52 |
| freem | export $(dbus-launch) | 16:52 |
| freem | ok... installed dbus, even rebooted for the fun, still can't run the tool | 16:57 |
| freem | huh... wtf | 16:57 |
| freem | why do I now have `run` processes (from runit) directly under PID1, they should be under runsvdir... | 16:58 |
| freem | never seen that before | 16:58 |
| amarsh04 | sorry, haven't used runit | 16:59 |
| freem | I have been using it since debian moved to systemd, and tinkered a lot with it | 16:59 |
| freem | I moved to devuan a few hours ago... | 16:59 |
| freem | (because I need kcachegrind, which on debian requires me to change my init, ofc, and which appear to not being working properly on devuan... sigh) | 17:00 |
| amarsh04 | ah, as I'm on unstable/Ceres, my dbus packages are at version 1.14.10-4devuan1 | 17:01 |
| amarsh04 | they are Devuan specific forks | 17:01 |
| freem | I'm more concerned with my init being broken on devuan than for a KDE tool being broken outside of kde | 17:01 |
| freem | guess I'll just install virtualbox and install a stock debian on that if I want to just use the damn tool | 17:02 |
| amarsh04 | have you registered and posted a question on dev1galaxy.org ? | 17:02 |
| freem | but my init being broken is a serious problem | 17:02 |
| freem | nope | 17:02 |
| freem | oh, actually, the processes are named 'run' and not 'runsv', they're something else | 17:03 |
| amarsh04 | certainly leave this channel open for anyone who is idling and re-appears later, but it's worth asking in the forum | 17:03 |
| freem | oh, ok, I know | 17:05 |
| freem | those run files are the ones from the udev run file, which contains a workaround to delay a command so that udev finally does it's job | 17:06 |
| freem | I guess there is a difference with eudev which creates this mess | 17:06 |
| freem | no eudev man-page? | 17:07 |
| freem | sigh... if only I managed to completely get rid of that stuff... | 17:07 |
| freem | I'd better move back to debian and try to debug this in a vm, seems safer | 17:11 |
| freem | oh... silly me | 17:42 |
| freem | obviously the run script would break without update, it is referring to *systemd-*udev binary after all :D | 17:42 |
| freem | guess I have not done anything system related in a way too long time :S | 17:43 |
| freem | (well, systemd-udevd to be exact) | 17:45 |
| freem | oh, nice, udevd is not in a stupid place, too | 18:02 |
| freem | there. With the correct path and filenames, things suddently work better :) | 18:04 |
| freem | I only need to get rid of the default udevd daemon, and to find out what this seatd daemon is for, and if I really need it | 18:05 |
| freem | as for kcachegrind, it is indeed missing a direct dependency, not on dbus, but on dbus-x11 | 18:07 |
| freem | installing it made kcachegrind finally launch | 18:08 |
| dostoyevsky2 | A HP Elitebook laptop without a gpu could be a good candidate for devuan, no? I think driver support doesn't need to be that current just so that the basics would work (keyboard/screen/wifi) | 18:27 |
| dostoyevsky2 | (without nvidia gpu) | 18:28 |
| dostoyevsky2 | Odd, I can't login with user: user, password: live on the devuan live iso... | 19:34 |
| rwp | dostoyevsky2, https://refracta.org/docs/Release_Notes_10.0.txt "The root password is root. The user password is user. You can use the 'su' command to become root." | 19:38 |
| rwp | "When running from live media, you can use 'sudo <command>' for root permissions or use 'sudo -i' to get a root terminal." | 19:39 |
| dostoyevsky2 | rwp: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4919 <- what works for me: devuan/devuan and root/toor as password... | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | devuan:devuan and root:toor | 20:13 |
| rwp | fsmithred, Do https://refracta.org/docs/Release_Notes_10.0.txt need to be updated? | 20:16 |
| fsmithred | rwp, I posted the logins for devuan-live. Refracta logins are still user:user and root:root | 20:29 |
| rwp | Somehow I was under the impression that devuan-live was also refracta. My mistake. | 21:06 |
| fsmithred | refracta uses devuan repos but it's a different mix of packages. | 21:08 |
| fsmithred | and current devuan-live uses refractainstaller. | 21:08 |
| rwp | I have been confused. I will try to get back in sync with what's happening. Thanks for clarifying! | 21:15 |
| dostoyevsky2 | now I am in the chroot for the installation but `apt install firmware-linux' and `apt install amd64-microcode' just tell me the package doesn't exist... I have setup `deb{-src} http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus{-updates,-security} main contrib non-free' in sources.list but those packages can't be found... but I think I need them for a proper installation, no? | 22:23 |
| gnarface | dostoyevsky2: as of daedalus you now also need "non-free-firmware" in addition to non-free, contrib, and main | 22:25 |
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