| AlexLikeRock | APT working .... | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| AlexLikeRock | Remove the following packages: | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 1) apache2-bin [2.4.61-1~deb11u1 (now, oldstable-security)] | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 2) kde-plasma-desktop [5:111 (now, oldstable)] | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 3) libapache2-mod-dnssd [0.6-3.2 (now, oldstable)] | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 4) libtaskmanager6abi1 [4:5.20.5-6+deb11u1 (now, oldstable-security)] | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 5) mate-user-share [1.24.0-2 (now, oldstable)] | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 6) plasma-workspace [4:5.20.5-6+deb11u1 (now, oldstable-security)] | 00:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | looks , its working a little bit | 00:24 |
| AlexLikeRock | goood morning people ! | 18:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | i sexy back ! | 18:10 |
| beagleburt | G'day from New Zealand everyone! I hope these electrons find you all well & truly happy! I am fine but I had to do a fresh install - Daedalus - & I have lost my $PATH... | 18:35 |
| beagleburt | I tried to set /etc/profile but I cannot seem to get a wide range of '*/bin/'s? | 18:36 |
| beagleburt | I have been searching the net for advice & finally came here for help. | 18:37 |
| rwp | What does "set /etc/profile" mean? What did you do? | 18:38 |
| rwp | Normally PATH is set to a reasonable default in /etc/profile but one does not make local modifications there. | 18:39 |
| rwp | Usually if one wants to make local PATH modifications it will be done in one of three places depending upon the user's setup. | 18:39 |
| rwp | I'll guess ~/.xsessionrc is the place for 99.44% of the people because most people use a Desktop Environment these days. Set PATH there. Log out. Log back in again. Profit! | 18:40 |
| beagleburt | I tried to add /usr/bin & /usr/sbin etc., etc., to my exisisting PATH, but I still get the same limited PATH??? | 18:40 |
| rwp | But /usr/bin is a standard part of PATH already. It should already be there. | 18:40 |
| gnarface | beagleburt: you mean as your own user or root? | 18:40 |
| rwp | How did you try to add /usr/sbin to your path? | 18:40 |
| beagleburt | gnarface, both | 18:41 |
| rwp | For root the best place is /root/.profile to set additional PATH entries. | 18:42 |
| beagleburt | rwp, I just followed instructions on websites....? | 18:42 |
| rwp | That's great. What *exactly* were those instructions? | 18:42 |
| beagleburt | https://www.baeldung.com/linux/bashrc-vs-bash-profile-vs-profile | 18:43 |
| beagleburt | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26136710/ddg#26136790 | 18:44 |
| beagleburt | https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-adding-path/ | 18:44 |
| rwp | I gave it a quick skim. Seemed reasonable at first glance. Now what exactly are you trying to do? And what actions did you take to try to do it? | 18:44 |
| beagleburt | Forgive me, but I am quite tired...I have been up all night battling with this ... :-(( | 18:45 |
| rwp | Please look at it from our point of view. We don't know what you did. And it works perfectly for us. How can we help you if we don't know what you want to do and what you did to try to do it? | 18:46 |
| beagleburt | I thought that I would add */bin: to my $PATH but they stubbornly remained the same? | 18:47 |
| rwp | I am sorry but if you don't help us to help you then we can't help you. | 18:48 |
| beagleburt | OK - Just a moment I will open the file I had the problem with & copy relevant code snippet.... | 18:48 |
| rwp | If it is more than a line please don't paste it into the channel as there is a system global bot that will kick people who paste too much at one time. | 18:49 |
| rwp | That's what pastebin sites are used for. For pasting in larger example snippets. | 18:49 |
| rwp | But can't you just say in some words what it is that you want to do and what you tried already? | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | # /etc/profile: system-wide .profile file for the Bourne shell (sh(1)) | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | # and Bourne compatible shells (bash(1), ksh(1), ash(1), ...). | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | if [ "$(id -u)" -eq 0 ]; then | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin" | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | else | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games" | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | fi | 18:50 |
| beagleburt | export PATH | 18:50 |
| rwp | Please don't paste in multiple lines like that into the channel. The global bot might "kick" you from the channel for abuse due to it. Instead use a pastebin site like https://paste.debian.net/ for it. | 18:51 |
| rwp | If the bot does kick you from the channel please simply join again as it is not a ban but just a kick. | 18:51 |
| beagleburt | but I ONLY get the echo $PATH : ending in /usr/games ???? | 18:51 |
| gnarface | wait wait wait | 18:52 |
| beagleburt | ok sorry tku for the advice | 18:52 |
| gnarface | beagleburt: before you do all this you should be setting ENV_PATH and ENV_SUPATH (for normal users and root, respectively) in /etc/login.defs | 18:52 |
| gnarface | they removed /sbin/ and /usr/sbin/ from ENV_SUPATH there at some point a release or two ago, which i also object to | 18:52 |
| gnarface | the other stuff will probably all also work, but this is where you're supposed to set the default | 18:53 |
| beagleburt | Hmmmm? I'm a bit of a S-L-O-W Nubie.... this is a steep curve for me! | 18:55 |
| rwp | There is so much to unpack and say here. I disagree that it is the place it is supposed to be set. But setting it will do it. It's a personal environment customization so the place it is supposed to be done is ~/.xsessionrc (or ~/.profile [or ~/.bash_profile]). but I agree that setting ENV_PATH in /etc/login.defs will also accomplish the task. | 18:55 |
| gnarface | i'm just about reverting unwanted changes back to sane defaults | 18:56 |
| gnarface | i didn't add /sbin and /usr/sbin to login.defs, i merely put them back | 18:56 |
| rwp | But usually putting /usr/sbin into PATH for a non-root user is useless because root privilege is still needed to run most /usr/sbin programs. | 18:56 |
| gnarface | no, that's not what i'm advocating | 18:56 |
| gnarface | well, not specifically, but you could do that too | 18:56 |
| rwp | If not then why did you mention it? | 18:56 |
| gnarface | because /sbin and /usr/sbin were in ENV_SUPATH before | 18:57 |
| gnarface | ENV_SUPATH is root's path | 18:57 |
| gnarface | sorry i wasn't clear about that, if beagleburt wants to add them to both ENV_SUPATH and ENV_PATH in there both, that's up to him | 18:57 |
| rwp | Let's see what beagleburt has there now. | 18:57 |
| rwp | Because I read "a fresh install of daedalus" and that will have ENV_SUPATH PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin | 18:58 |
| gnarface | uh... i don't think so.... | 18:58 |
| gnarface | i was pretty sure they pulled all the sbins out of there about 1 or 2 releases ago and we all had to add them back manually | 18:58 |
| gnarface | (more vandalism from upstream) | 18:58 |
| beagleburt | gnarface, & rwp When I reinstalled Daedalus, at some point I was given the choice of LINKING (?) /sbin & (?) /usr/sbin.... i think? | 18:59 |
| gnarface | frankly i think it even happened to some of my upgraded systems... | 18:59 |
| rwp | Let's see what beagleburt has there now. | 18:59 |
| rwp | beagleburt, How did you answer that usermerge question? Yes or no? | 18:59 |
| gnarface | beagleburt: that's a separate thing, "usrmerge" (i said no to that) | 18:59 |
| rwp | But that's a separate thing. Useful to know though. | 18:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | gnarface, o/ | 18:59 |
| gnarface | AlexLikeRock: yo | 19:00 |
| beagleburt | rwp, Yes | 19:00 |
| rwp | Good. | 19:00 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Can you tell us what you have in /etc/login.defs for ENV_SUPATH? Are you working in a text terminal? Can you "grep ENV_SUPATH /etc/login.defs" and tell us what value is listed there? | 19:02 |
| beagleburt | rwp, Text Terminal = Yes | 19:04 |
| beagleburt | Hang on a moment - ( I am disabled & V. slow.... | 19:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | free -h | 19:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | total used free shared buff/cache available | 19:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | Mem: 15Gi 2.3Gi 11Gi 50Mi 1.8Gi 13Gi | 19:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | Swap: 3.0Gi 55Mi 2.9Gi | 19:05 |
| fsmithred | The sbins are still in ENV_SUPATH but when su got moved to (or from?) util linux, the behavior changed. You need to use 'su -' to get root's path. | 19:08 |
| rwp | I am thinking it is the lack of "-" problem too. | 19:09 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 19:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | "-" | 19:10 |
| rwp | Now that UsrMerge is a done deal they are also moving to merge /usr/sbin/* into /usr/bin/ now too. That's coming down the pipeline of time now too. | 19:11 |
| beagleburt | https://paste.debian.net/1323262 | 19:12 |
| gnarface | huh | 19:12 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Perfect! As shown there the PATH has both /usr/sbin and /sbin so we know that /etc/login.defs is okay and that is not the problem. | 19:13 |
| gnarface | i swear to you all this really happened; i was having the same problem with root missing /sbin and /usr/sbin, and i was notified in here about the change from upstream to login.defs and i put it back manually | 19:13 |
| rwp | That definitely happens in Testing which is post Daedalus. | 19:13 |
| gnarface | i had already been using "su -" all along, for other environment variables, so i know for a fact it wasn't that im' remembering | 19:13 |
| gnarface | i wasn't ever using testing, i was however using unstable before the daedalus release | 19:14 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Since that is now shown as okay we can move on. How were you using su? The typical error is "su" instead of "su -". | 19:14 |
| gnarface | then that system i merged into daedalus after the freeze | 19:14 |
| rwp | Unstable/Testing are almost the same. Only a few days of separation. | 19:14 |
| gnarface | so maybe that's why it happened to me, if they made the change to unstable but somehow that change didn't make it into actual daedalus... | 19:15 |
| beagleburt | rwp, 'su' what's the diff between that & 'su -'? | 19:15 |
| gnarface | ... but was still made to unstable before daedalus | 19:15 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Please type in "su -" in a terminal to switch user to root and to load the root environment. Then type in "echo $PATH" to show the resulting PATH after doing those two steps. | 19:15 |
| rwp | It will ask for the root password at the "su -" step. | 19:15 |
| beagleburt | ok | 19:15 |
| gnarface | beagleburt: "-" just includes root's entire environment too | 19:15 |
| gnarface | if you don't use it, you'll be root but with your user's environment | 19:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | su = acces to root user | 19:16 |
| rwp | su = switch-user | 19:16 |
| gnarface | at one point, PATH was an exception that was always included, but they changed it | 19:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | su - = entry to root enviroment ( path's , home , basic autorithys, etc ) | 19:16 |
| rwp | It used to be like it is now, then it was changed to a different su which added it by default, and now we have changed back to the original behavior from before. An example of thrash. They need to stop changing these things for no good reason. | 19:17 |
| AlexLikeRock | rwp, yes | 19:17 |
| AlexLikeRock | su = entry as root | 19:17 |
| beagleburt | rwp, ~# echo $PATH | 19:17 |
| AlexLikeRock | su rwp = entry as user | 19:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | su AlexLikeRock = entry as normal user | 19:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | su gnarface = entry as normal user | 19:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | su root = entry as root | 19:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | su =entry as root (too) | 19:18 |
| beagleburt | ~# echo $PATH/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin | 19:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | free -h | 19:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | total used free shared buff/cache available | 19:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | Mem: 15Gi 15Gi 152Mi 55Mi 385Mi 192Mi | 19:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | Swap: 3.0Gi 1.1Gi 1.9Gi | 19:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | . | 19:19 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Great! So it is there. And the problem was the missing "-" on the su line. Always call it "su -". | 19:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | apt eat my RAM , help , please | 19:19 |
| beagleburt | rwp ok TKU! | 19:20 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Now that we have that sorted out, what command were you trying to run as root? Can we help you get through that step? | 19:20 |
| beagleburt | rwp, I was not worrying about the su - I was trying to get the $PATH for user sorted first....? | 19:22 |
| rwp | Okay. Things should be sorted out now. Good luck! :-) | 19:24 |
| beagleburt | rwp, $ echo $PATH /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games | 19:26 |
| beagleburt | rwp still not right! | 19:27 |
| rwp | beagleburt, That's the right path for a NON-root user and the '$' says that is your non-root user login. You should not have /usr/sbin:/sbin in a NON-root login PATH. | 19:28 |
| rwp | The programs in /usr/sbin:/sbin (other than ping and a very few others) all require root privilege in order to run. So they are not in a user path. If you want to use programs from there you will need to use either "su -" to become root to use them, or use sudo or doas other jump-to-root utility. | 19:29 |
| rwp | Oh, and I see ping has been moved to /bin/ping so is no longer in /usr/sbin and not a problem now. | 19:30 |
| joerg | even ping _may_ need root permisions | 19:31 |
| beagleburt | rwp, OH? I have been trying to achieve the wrong thing! I just get sick and tired of having to do a ' # locate commmand ' and paste it into the cli - but i guess it was mainly with the # su not su -? | 19:32 |
| gnarface | probably | 19:32 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes : ping need root permissions | 19:32 |
| AlexLikeRock | beagleburt, | 19:33 |
| rwp | Never use "su" and always use "su -". | 19:33 |
| AlexLikeRock | its not for a normal user | 19:33 |
| AlexLikeRock | at some time ago ,ping no need root permissions , but no they need | 19:33 |
| AlexLikeRock | beagleburt, try with stand alone command as root like this : | 19:34 |
| AlexLikeRock | su -c ping yahoo.com | 19:34 |
| joerg | ping -f 8.8.8.8 ;#-> ping: cannot flood; minimal interval allowed for user is 200ms | 19:35 |
| AlexLikeRock | -c = command | 19:35 |
| AlexLikeRock | the command its ping | 19:35 |
| AlexLikeRock | joerg, whta devuan do you have ? | 19:35 |
| rwp | These days ping has the cap_net_raw=ep set upon it so that it does not need root access but uses the kernel "capabilities" to allow the privilege access. OR without that it needs suid-root. (fsmithred that's one thing that a refracta install does not set last time I checked.) | 19:35 |
| beagleburt | rwp I will try & remember that good advice ....m y memory is not the best since surviving a coma.... If I stop using commands for a while, I forget them ... "There are a few holes in the seive" - LOL! | 19:35 |
| joerg | this is not (necessarily) devuan | 19:35 |
| rwp | beagleburt, I am so sorry to here that! Here is to hoping for continued recovery. | 19:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes rwp , yes , refracta not set | 19:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | other problems are install whit apt | 19:37 |
| AlexLikeRock | with refracta : need "su -" | 19:37 |
| AlexLikeRock | not work with only "su " | 19:37 |
| rwp | The rsync command refracta uses does not include the --xattrs,-X option and does not copy the extended attributes. | 19:37 |
| rwp | And so those attributes are lost in installation. They can be set again. sudo setcap cap_net_raw=ep /bin/ping | 19:38 |
| rwp | AlexLikeRock, Try that, setcap cap_net_raw=ep /bin/ping, as root, and then ping will be available to normal users again. | 19:39 |
| rwp | Actually probably the better advice is "dpkg-reconfigure iputils-ping" and let the package postinst script do the work. Because in the future there might be more for it to do. | 19:43 |
| AlexLikeRock | rwp, , no you guys , devuan developers, must be fix refracta , please | 19:44 |
| rwp | I am not a refracta developer. All I can do is report the issue. | 19:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | oh! | 19:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | fine | 19:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | please , do it m for us | 19:45 |
| beagleburt | rwp, Thank you! I have had several miracles in my 'continued recovery' already. God bless you & yours ! & TKU gnarface also for your help - it really is appreciated! | 19:46 |
| gnarface | no problem | 19:46 |
| beagleburt | 'b'ye ! | 19:46 |
| AlexLikeRock | any time beagleburt | 19:46 |
| AlexLikeRock | o/ | 19:46 |
| beagleburt | TKU AlexLikeRock ! | 19:47 |
| rwp | Good night beagleburt! | 19:47 |
| beagleburt | 05:47am! | 19:48 |
| rwp | You did say you had been up all night! | 19:50 |
| joerg | rwp: how about >>setfattr [-h] --restore=file :: Restores extended attributes from file. The file must be in the format generated by the getfattr command with the --dump option. <<? | 19:53 |
| beagleburt | rwp YUP! For many years now I stay awake for up to 2-3 Days & Nights & then zzzZ for up to 3 days & nights to catch up. As long as I do not get 'sleep deprived' - no one worries.... I spend most of my time on my computer(s)... | 19:55 |
| joerg | or... actually use rsync | 19:55 |
| joerg | I mean, rsync is meant, by definition, to avoid duplicate copying, so should _only_ update xattr where and only where needed | 19:56 |
| rwp | joerg, rsync discards extended attributes when copying unless the -X,--xattrs is explicitly specified. | 19:58 |
| beagleburt | LEAVE | 20:00 |
| beagleburt | ? | 20:00 |
| rwp | The refracta install pours files on with rsync but lacks the -X option and the ping capabilities are lost. I have mentioned it to fsmithred before. | 20:00 |
| rwp | beagleburt, Probably you want "/PART" as the IRC command. | 20:00 |
| beagleburt | rwp, ok t.a. cu l8r! | 20:01 |
| rwp | Otherwise it is like the song Hotel California, you can checkout but you can never leave. :-) | 20:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | hahahahahah | 20:01 |
| joerg | rwp: >>rsync discards extended attributes when copying ***unless the -X,--xattrs***<< exactly my idea: use it a second time, fixing the missing -X, shouldn't do any further harm | 20:06 |
| rwp | Use it the first time and be done in one pass! | 20:06 |
| joerg | hehe of course | 20:07 |
| joerg | but maybe using it a second time yields a more comprehensive effect than setcap cap_net_raw=ep | 20:08 |
| rwp | One can repair by doing a grep setcap /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst and seeing what packages install capabilities and then running dpkg-reconfigure on those packages. They will run the postinst configure section again and set them again. | 20:08 |
| joerg | ooooh, I see, refracta is *built* using rsync, not using it at *installation* time. Sorry, I wasn't aware | 20:09 |
| joerg | nebbermind | 20:10 |
| rwp | I think it is both built and installed that way both. | 20:10 |
| rwp | I have slept since the last time I thought about the repair and so it took me a while this morning to get back around to getting the list of packages to dpkg-reconfigure by grep'ing the postinst files. But there might be several and the list depends upon what is installed so best to get it dynamically. | 20:11 |
| rwp | ping is just the program I run into most often because I use it a lot. | 20:12 |
| fsmithred | rwp, refracctainstaller uses -X starting in version 9.7.0 | 20:15 |
| rwp | Yay! \o/ :-) | 20:18 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it's built with rsync mksquashfs and xorriso and it's installed with rsync | 20:18 |
| fsmithred | that version is in daedalus | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | but if you run refractainstaller -v it tells you the wrong version. (sorry) | 20:19 |
| rwp | I have not looked at the current up to date refracta yet, sorry, but that was definitely an issue in chimaera. | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | Thanks for pointing it out. | 20:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | wau wau! | 21:20 |
| debdog | /^^\ | 21:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | im back | 22:51 |
| AlexLikeRock | problem #1 | 22:51 |
| AlexLikeRock | apt averflow my RAM then my SWAP | 22:52 |
| AlexLikeRock | at my OLD DEVUAN | 22:52 |
| AlexLikeRock | init 6 | 23:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | dam! | 23:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | startx | 23:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc: 3 exec: /usr/bin/X: not Found | 23:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | xinit: giving up | 23:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | xinit : unable to conect to X server : network is unreachable | 23:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | xinit : server error | 23:21 |
| rustyaxe | sounds like 1gb of ram just might not cut it these days :O | 23:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | i mix differents devuans | 23:24 |
| AlexLikeRock | I have a disaster | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | 1001 | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | Pin-Priority: 1001 | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | on chimaera | 23:24 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 23:25 |
| fsmithred | and try n=chimaera instead of what you were using | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | # cat /etc/apt/preferences | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Package: * | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Pin: release a=oldstable | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Pin-Priority: 900 | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Package: * | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Pin: release a=stable | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | Pin-Priority: 600 | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok | 23:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | let me change 900 to 1001 | 23:26 |
| fsmithred | and change 600 to something less than 500 or remove that stanza completely | 23:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | apt update 18% | 23:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | CTRL + C | 23:27 |
| AlexLikeRock | look fsmithred | 23:31 |
| AlexLikeRock | --allow-downgrades | 23:32 |
| AlexLikeRock | E: Earlier versions of some packages were installed and -y was used without --allow-downgrades. | 23:32 |
| AlexLikeRock | searching at WWW ...... | 23:33 |
| fsmithred | what are you searching for? | 23:34 |
| AlexLikeRock | apt-get --allow-downgrades --allow-change-held-packages install xorg | 23:35 |
| AlexLikeRock | to make DOWNGRADE | 23:35 |
| AlexLikeRock | http://paste.debian.net/1323285/ | 23:36 |
| rwp | When I need to downgrade something I deduce the version of the packages that are needed and then "apt-get install foo=123.4.5" and it downgrades to 123.4.5. | 23:36 |
| AlexLikeRock | YES, BUT I NEED TO DOWNGRADE the entire operating system. | 23:37 |
| AlexLikeRock | it would be a headache to specify the version of each package | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | Yes, whole system. I told you how to do it. If it did not work, you should say what error you got. | 23:38 |
| rwp | Now you know why that operation has always been listed as unsupported. It's a PITA. And there is bound to be a package or three that has changed config file syntax and will not downgrade cleanly, but can be manually hacked up to work okay. | 23:38 |
| rwp | Follow fsmithred's instructions. | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | meanwhile, I'll go do some cooking. bbl. | 23:39 |
| rwp | I just completed a large-ish database migration here. Time to let it burn-in and see if anything breaks. Looks good though. So time for snacks for me too. | 23:40 |
| * AlexLikeRock are lisstening : LF SYSTEM - Afraid To Feel | 23:40 | |
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