| fsmithred | bookworm (security)1:9.2p1-2+deb12u3fixed | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| rwp | scip left before waiting for an answer. | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | Yeah, I saw that but I felt like emptying my clipboard anyway. Maybe they look at the logs. | 03:44 |
| rwp | Since they asked the question we know they don't understand how stable releases are organized. They will always be disappointed that they are not seeing the latest upstream release of X or Y on their machine. They should try a rolling release distro like Parabola or Void. | 03:46 |
| paculino | Why not just go for testing or unstable? | 03:58 |
| gengareru | Where is the OpenRC download for Devuan> | 04:40 |
| gengareru | ? | 04:40 |
| gnarface | what's with people leaving so quickly after asking questions? | 04:46 |
| rwp | paculino, A lot of people do use Testing and Unstable but Debian/Devuan is not a rolling release model. Testing/Unstable is often broken, for significant periods of time during transitions. | 04:59 |
| paculino | I thought that it wasn't quite as broken as rolling releases | 04:59 |
| paculino | I guess it depends on the system setup | 05:00 |
| rwp | OMG! You must have missed some of the recent rather long running breakages then. I think things are mostly in a working state this week. But it has been a rough ride. | 05:01 |
| rwp | A Rolling Release such as what Void offers tries not to break things for the end user. But in Debian Unstable is the work area sandbox for developing the next release. | 05:01 |
| onefang | Every rolling distro I ever tried eventually broke itself just doing updates. | 05:02 |
| rwp | Pretty much. And another problem is that you MUST upgrade routinely. If you let a system sit too long it might fall off the horizon window of being able to upgrade. | 05:03 |
| onefang | I got my basic nginx setup running now, with PHP and FCGI stuff. It's looking good so far. Though this is just for testing on my desktop for now, I'll roll it out after much testing. | 05:05 |
| rwp | Good deal! | 05:05 |
| gnarface | well, the thing is that with rolling release distros like Arch for example, they do break them inevitably but they also try hard to fix it quickly or at least publish a workaround. Debian Sid on the other hand... Nvidia will happily cram known-broken drivers into it and just leave them there for months at a time | 05:13 |
| * onefang removes apache2 from my desktop. | 05:13 | |
| gnarface | they straight up break it on purpose | 05:15 |
| paculino | The people I know who use Arch say it is almost always the user's fault if it breaks | 05:17 |
| * onefang wonders if awstats works for nginx, or if there's something similar? | 05:17 | |
| gnarface | paculino: i have also used Arch now for long enough to know they're liars | 05:17 |
| paculino | Yeah, I don't believe them | 05:17 |
| gnarface | onefang: if you can match the common log format it should | 05:18 |
| gnarface | afaik anyway | 05:18 |
| rustyaxe | hmm /testing is about as close to a proper rolling release you'll get | 05:19 |
| gnarface | awstats is problematic though, desperately long overdue for a fork by someone competent, ethical, and rational | 05:19 |
| rustyaxe | tracking /unstable will give you herpes, ebola, and other great inconviences | 05:19 |
| onefang | Are there alteratives? | 05:19 |
| gnarface | onefang: not really | 05:20 |
| * onefang installs awstats to see if it groks nginx. | 05:21 | |
| gnarface | onefang: well, not open source ones anyway. there's plenty of badly-supported commercial solutions | 05:21 |
| gnarface | onefang: bolt it down as well as you can; it's not secure. i would run it in a jail all alone | 05:21 |
| onefang | It groks nginx. B-) | 05:34 |
| freem | <paculino> The people I know who use Arch say it is almost always the user's fault if it breaks | 06:46 |
| freem | The one time I tried archlinux, it had a broken dependency loop on Xorg. The arch crap thus went directly to /dev/null. OTOH, I had a dual boot with VoidLinux for more than 2 years, rarely used, and it never broke at all. | 06:46 |
| freem | I think the reason why arch have such a nice wiki is obvious: when things break often, you need good manual to fix 'em :D | 06:46 |
| paculino | Gentoo wiki is slightly better? | 06:47 |
| freem | should I deduce Gentoo breaks slightly more often? :p | 06:47 |
| freem | more seriously though, it's been a long time since I found a link toward gentoo's wiki, but maybe it's related to arch users being so noisy that even search engines are impacted | 06:48 |
| freem | (when I think about this, this is definitely a likely reason) | 06:48 |
| freem | just glanced at gentoo wiki's page for syslinux (my favorite bootloader) and I guess the presentation is cleaner, yes. Information inside are on roughly the same level, except ofc for gentoo's useflags. I remember using archlinux's wiki to make this work with EFI, I think I remember correctly arch's wiki for this one. | 06:53 |
| blizzow | I just installed daedalus to a VM and am going to upgrade to excalibur to play around. Do I have to do anything more than this?: | 16:26 |
| blizzow | sudo sed -i 's/daedalus/excalibur/g' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt update && apt dist-upgrade | 16:26 |
| buZz | pray? it wont be stable ;) | 16:27 |
| buZz | i'd do apt upgrade prior to apt dist-upgrade, but thats just me | 16:27 |
| gnarface | as long as the sources.list you're starting with is ok, should be fine but uh, yea i'd stick with stable | 16:27 |
| gnarface | also i'd add --no-install-recommends to the upgrade command | 16:28 |
| gnarface | but that's just me, i hate bloat | 16:28 |
| buZz | if you're just doing this to get some single package updated to newer, maybe you just need backports | 16:28 |
| blizzow | buZz, and gnarface it's just a VM to play with. | 16:28 |
| blizzow | I thought excalibur was getting close? | 16:29 |
| freem | I usually rely on aptitude's ncurses interface for upgrades, as it allows me to control what is done | 16:32 |
| gnarface | blizzow: i thought someone was saying just yesterday it was broken | 16:34 |
| freem | but then, I do disable auto-install of recommends, and aptitude's options to "auto repair" my broken actions. With the preview, this allows me to understand why a package is installed, removed, or broken, and if broken, to pick a solution that suits me, and not maintainers | 16:34 |
| gnarface | blizzow: since it's a VM don't let me discourage you from trying it though | 16:34 |
| blizzow | I did try and boot the excalibur desktop iso and was unsuccessful. I didn't put much time or effort into seeing what might be wrong. That's why I'm futzing around with a dist-upgrade | 16:38 |
| fsmithred | before you upgrade to excalibur it's probably still a good idea to install usrmerge before the upgrade. In the past that was broken, but last time I did it about a month or two ago, it worked without installing usrmerge first. | 16:56 |
| golinux | Do the usrmerge BEFORE you upgrade https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/excalibur-usrmerge-announce-2024-02-20.html | 16:56 |
| djph | good to know, golinux | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | blizzow, you might try booting the desktop iso with 'vga=785' in the boot command. TAB to edit. | 17:18 |
| blizzow | fsmithred, I did encounter an error when trying dist-upgrade to excalibur about usrmerge. I stopped, installed usrmerge, and re-attempted. That seemed to work fine. | 17:23 |
| rwp | +1 Do the usermerge before the upgrade as golinux says. | 19:29 |
| rwp | And Excalibur/Trixie isn't due to be released until next year 2025. Debian 12 Bookworm released June 2023. It's usually two years between releases. Trixie/Excalibur isn't due to even be thinking about a release until 2025. | 19:29 |
| djph | gives me time to delay buying that new harddrive some more tehn :D | 19:34 |
| Afdal | Anyone here use a stevenpusser repo? | 21:52 |
| Afdal | Been having some trouble lately and not sure what to do about it... | 21:52 |
| golinux | Yeah. But I haven't updated in a while . . . | 23:22 |
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