| nemo | greetings #devuan - my mom is trying to resurrect an old tablet she neglected to leave powered on for 4 years | 00:50 |
|---|---|---|
| nemo | it is running an ancient (probably 32 bit) intel atom 1.33 ghz | 00:50 |
| nemo | I'm thinking a really minimalistic devuan might work, does anyone know offhand how much a minimal desktop requires, space-wise? say, mate.. | 00:51 |
| mason | nemo: you could probably be happy with half a gig. I think there are numbers out there somewhere. | 00:54 |
| nemo | mason: that sounds promising | 00:54 |
| nemo | is the live installer reliable these days? she'd probably be most comfortable in that | 00:54 |
| nemo | hm. also do 32 bit images still exist | 00:55 |
| mason | Dunno. I just do debootstrap installs. It's probably quite reliable. | 00:55 |
| nemo | otherwise I need to find one elsewhere | 00:55 |
| mason | That I don't know. | 00:55 |
| nemo | oooh i386 live image | 00:55 |
| fsmithred | nemo, I made an image for a 2010 asus EEE that uses lxqt. | 01:04 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta_12-EEE_lxqt-20230905_1348.iso | 01:05 |
| fsmithred | the devuan-live just provides xfce. If you want mate, do a netinstall. | 01:06 |
| nemo | fsmithred: ok. I was just trying to find something with a gui for her | 01:11 |
| nemo | fsmithred: that might be close to what she has | 01:12 |
| fsmithred | do you know what desktop she's using? | 01:12 |
| nemo | she is trying to revive an asus "tablet" that uses an Intel Atom Z3740 | 01:12 |
| nemo | 2 gigs of ram | 01:12 |
| nemo | 833 MB of storage free (supposedly - might be more. I'm sure they reserved some space for the now-dead recovery file system) | 01:13 |
| fsmithred | mine has 2G. Hang on and I'll check the cpu. | 01:13 |
| fsmithred | no hard drive? | 01:13 |
| fsmithred | atom z520, 1.33GHz | 01:14 |
| nemo | fsmithred: if it's a "tablet" it probably has an internal ssd | 01:14 |
| nemo | and most likely, because she left it unplugged for years, it has hopelessly drained the nand cells | 01:14 |
| fsmithred | 239mb ram by ps_mem.py | 01:14 |
| nemo | which is why it went to bios and said, literally "locate simple file system protocol failly!!" | 01:14 |
| nemo | yes it did say "failly" | 01:14 |
| onefang | It failed at failing. | 01:16 |
| fsmithred | I think asus does not hire good translators. | 01:16 |
| gnarface | it should have a microSD slot you can use for extra storage, i would assume | 01:16 |
| onefang | Or USB OTG maybe. | 01:17 |
| gnarface | it might not be obvious that it's there; the ASUS tablets i've seen practically hide it | 01:17 |
| nemo | well. she just wants to use it for web browsing I imagine. maybe document editing at most | 01:17 |
| nemo | so if she can get some basics into half a gig or so.. | 01:17 |
| gnarface | there will be a completely innocuous unlabeled slot the width of a microSD card that could be easily confused as a ventilation slot or a hidden mic | 01:17 |
| fsmithred | EEE has a regular sd slot | 01:18 |
| onefang | Sounds plausible, but sounds like you'll have hardware problems. | 01:18 |
| onefang | I don't suppose you can convince the thing to boot from USB? | 01:19 |
| nemo | onefang: going to see if we can get to that point. | 01:19 |
| nemo | I'm finding a good candidate for a USB stick | 01:19 |
| nemo | (she's hunting through her drawer) | 01:19 |
| nemo | "I don't know if I can use this one. it has wedding photos on it" | 01:19 |
| onefang | Try the live one, if that boots, then an installed version will work just as well. | 01:19 |
| nemo | I just lectured her about not using a flash drive sitting in a drawer for long term storage | 01:19 |
| onefang | Or stick with the live one, leave the internal storage alone. | 01:20 |
| nemo | onefang: that's a thought | 01:20 |
| nemo | might be easier | 01:20 |
| fsmithred | you can mount the internal storage if she needs to save any files | 01:22 |
| fsmithred | my EEE lxqt system uses about 3.5G disk space | 01:22 |
| nemo | fsmithred: is it a live image or an installer? | 01:23 |
| nemo | live image w/ unionfs or similar.. | 01:23 |
| fsmithred | that's the installed size. There is a live image that I linked above. | 01:23 |
| fsmithred | it has refractainstaller | 01:23 |
| onefang | So both. B-) | 01:23 |
| fsmithred | note: that particular image does not have a display manager. I left stuff out to keep it light. | 01:24 |
| fsmithred | log in console and run startx. | 01:24 |
| nemo | she found a thumb drive they'd used for installers before, but it was 64 bit, and was a 2.6Gig install partition for ubuntu 20.04 plus 52 gigs of totally unused space. it seemed like overkill for this and I suggested she hang on to it for live boots of other things if she could find a wimpier usb lying around :) | 01:24 |
| fsmithred | oh, desktop comes up automatically in live | 01:24 |
| nemo | fsmithred: ah. wow. that *is* minimalist | 01:24 |
| nemo | fsmithred: you know, I did have a laptop long ago that only had 96MiB of ram, and I was able to still run a very very minimalist X on it, including a launcher. but things may have changed since then | 01:25 |
| fsmithred | how do you fit ubuntu into 2.6G??? | 01:25 |
| nemo | anyway she has 2 gigs of ram so no concerns | 01:25 |
| nemo | fsmithred: 20.04 live image? it's probably basically just the dvd | 01:25 |
| nemo | fsmithred: and then it writes to the larger image for persistence | 01:25 |
| fsmithred | oh yeah, the live is compressed. | 01:25 |
| nemo | I don't know where she got it from. she may have followed a guide | 01:25 |
| nemo | my mom is rather adventurous. I had no involvement in any of her recent installs | 01:26 |
| fsmithred | I'm impressed. | 01:26 |
| fsmithred | we have a visual install guide for the live installer at devuan.org | 01:26 |
| nemo | fsmithred: oh. that could be useful thanks | 01:27 |
| golinux | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/live-gui | 01:28 |
| fsmithred | live installer requires manual partitioning | 01:28 |
| nemo | fsmithred: well. the disc is basically trash anyway so if it has decent default selections for the manual, nbd... | 01:28 |
| nemo | hmmm that guide seems very manual | 01:29 |
| nemo | maybe she's better off with the netinstall | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | live installer does not partition. It will format partitions you select. | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | has she used debian-installer before? | 01:30 |
| golinux | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/install-devuan | 01:30 |
| nemo | fsmithred: I think she's only ever used the ubuntu one | 01:30 |
| golinux | Pick your poison | 01:30 |
| nemo | which is much friendlier :) | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | neither | 01:30 |
| nemo | but ofc ubuntu is 64 bit only nowdays sooo | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | and it's a resource hog. | 01:30 |
| nemo | I think I'm going to recommend she try a live boot (esp if she can find a microsd) or the netinstall | 01:31 |
| fsmithred | I didn't install any wireless firmware in the EEE image, and it looks like I didn't even include the deb packages. | 01:32 |
| fsmithred | the devuan-live all have wireless firmware installed. Good for testing. | 01:32 |
| fsmithred | oh, nm. My wireless is working without nonfree firmware. | 01:33 |
| nemo | fsmithred: mm. that's a bit inconvenient with the netinstall | 01:35 |
| nemo | since it's probably not bundled on it | 01:35 |
| nemo | so would need setting up ahead of time | 01:35 |
| gnarface | earlier devices often only need firmware for WPA support | 01:36 |
| fsmithred | wireless firmware is included in all the installer isos | 01:36 |
| fsmithred | mine has atheros. works with free. | 01:36 |
| gnarface | ah | 01:36 |
| nemo | oh good | 01:37 |
| nemo | hm. well. odds are her wifi is WPA | 01:37 |
| nemo | and I don't feel like explaining WEP to her | 01:37 |
| fsmithred | I wish it had more ram. 2G is barely enough for a web browser | 01:37 |
| nemo | fsmithred: heh. you know, years ago I had a laptop with 96MiB of ram | 01:37 |
| fsmithred | that used to be enough | 01:38 |
| nemo | I ran a minimalist gentoo desktop... seamonkey kinda functioned okish on it | 01:38 |
| gnarface | firefox needs too much ram, but you can do better | 01:38 |
| nemo | I feel like browsers can run in less than 2 gigs if there's nothing else around. esp w/ like noscript or umatrix but she might not want those | 01:38 |
| nemo | she'd probably want firefox | 01:38 |
| nemo | browser.tabs.unloadOnLowMemory might help | 01:39 |
| nemo | also setting number of processes to 1 instead of default of 4 | 01:39 |
| nemo | anyway. I had to leave her for now. kids need baths :) | 01:39 |
| onefang | My super desktop has 256 GB, in a box near it is a x486 with 512 MB I put Linux on for a client. | 01:39 |
| rustyaxe | did i fall in time machine? | 02:11 |
| gnarface | no it's just nostalgic computing day today | 02:12 |
| rustyaxe | id power up my kaypro ii and join in, but its raining and my db25 to db9 adaptors are in truck :P | 02:13 |
| rustyaxe | http://istabpeople.com/junk/kaypro/IMG_20230706_151121.jpg | 02:14 |
| * rustyaxe installs devuan on his TeeVee | 02:44 | |
| rwp | I had a friend with the Kaypro portable (luggable) and my biggest complaint was that the fans on that thing were as loud as could be. | 02:55 |
| onefang | Does anyone know anything about kernel post install and post remove scripts? I'm trying to get kernel and initrd copied to another disk whenever they get updated. | 07:49 |
| onefang | There is scripts in /etc/kernel and I put one there, it runs. But when a kernel is removed, it runs BEFORE the initrd removal, so I get the last initrd instead of the current one. | 07:50 |
| onefang | Hmmmm, or are they run at the same time? I put a sleep in my script, and now it gets the current initrd. | 07:52 |
| CueXXIII | they should run in lex. order, see man 8 run-parts | 08:23 |
| onefang | They are in lex order already. | 08:24 |
| CueXXIII | are they? ls -u :) | 08:25 |
| CueXXIII | but run-parts sorts them before running them | 08:25 |
| onefang | Funny thing is I see a message that the symlink fram /initrd.img has been updated BEFORE my script runs, and still it gets the old one. | 08:25 |
| CueXXIII | you could put some deugging output in your scripts to see when it actually is run | 08:26 |
| onefang | I am. | 08:26 |
| CueXXIII | hm, run-parts has no way of specifying to run in parallel… let me check what the official kernel images use | 08:28 |
| CueXXIII | yeah, they use run-parts, too | 08:31 |
| onefang | Maybe the initrd building tool does the actual building in parellel? I noticed it has protection against running multiple times. | 08:35 |
| onefang | And there IS multiple initrds made, coz the system likes to do that. | 08:36 |
| onefang | I might have to bite the bullet and hook kernel and initrd separately. | 09:00 |
| CueXXIII | what initrd tool do you use? | 09:03 |
| onefang | Was hoping to find a single "both symlinks have been updated, now you can copy what they point to" place I could drop a couple of cp commands. | 09:03 |
| onefang | initramfs-tools | 09:03 |
| onefang | If there is a better tool, I'm happy to switch. | 09:04 |
| CueXXIII | it shouldn't run in parallel as far as i can see, i wonder why it does for you | 09:08 |
| onefang | Maybe something is getting lost in a cache? | 09:09 |
| CueXXIII | i'm using dracut, no idea if it is better or worse, but it is developed seperately from debian | 09:09 |
| CueXXIII | you could put a pstree (or ps -faux) in your script to see what is actually running when it is called | 09:09 |
| onefang | What do you like / hate about dracut? | 09:10 |
| CueXXIII | i don't particularily like initrds… but dracut works for me | 09:11 |
| CueXXIII | and i was a bit concerned update-initramfs might drop sysvinit support sometime | 09:12 |
| onefang | Looks interesting. I'll try it. | 09:14 |
| onefang | Ah, I'm using initramfs-tools coz that's the default, I never specified. | 09:15 |
| onefang | AHA CAUGHT IT! When I later install the desktop-base package, something in there generates a new initrd, which is a different size, but doesn't call my hook to copy the result. | 09:30 |
| onefang | Dracut seems to work fine, and I got rid of the initrd rebuild during the install of desktop-base. Seems to be fixed now. Thanks CueXXIII | 11:06 |
| avir327 | I am using dracut with Daedalus on two computers, without issues. Only a warning is issued on updates, that 'dracut-systemd' (or such) is missing a dependency.. | 11:17 |
| onefang | I got three of those errors - dracut: dracut module 'systemd-initrd' depends on 'systemd', which can't be installed | 11:19 |
| onefang | Which I think means if you are not using that systemd module in dracut, then it doesn't matter. | 11:19 |
| onefang | Worked fine with no config on my part. I'll read the manual after dinner. | 11:20 |
| CueXXIII | yeah, i get those diagnostics about no systemd, too :) | 11:49 |
| tolsen718 | Hello. Just following up from yesterday re: PGP key server. I was able to access the keyserver by being more specific about protocol and port: | 22:09 |
| tolsen718 | # gpg --keyserver http://keyring.devuan.org:11371 --search-keys 94532124541922FB | 22:09 |
| tolsen718 | That works for me | 22:09 |
| mason | tolsen718: good | 22:12 |
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