| joerg | but really I THINK I seen something like "+packageA -pkgB" | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nemo | joerg: gentoo perhaps? :) | 00:01 |
| gnarface | or aptitude | 00:02 |
| nemo | gnarface: oh. yeah. aptitude does do clever stuff like that | 00:02 |
| nemo | https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.apt-get.html | 00:03 |
| nemo | "TIP Removing and installing at the same time" | 00:03 |
| nemo | so apparently not just aptitude. all debian commands | 00:04 |
| nemo | TIL | 00:04 |
| gnarface | ah, apt not apt-get | 00:04 |
| nemo | "It is possible to ask apt (or apt-get, or aptitude) to install certain packages and remove others on the same command line by adding a suffix." | 00:04 |
| gnarface | oh, interesting... | 00:06 |
| gnarface | alright, being super explicit seems to work... | 00:09 |
| gnarface | apt-get -s --no-install-recommends install libelogind-compat:amd64+ libelogind-compat:i386+ libelogind0:amd64+ libelogind0:i386+ libsystemd0:amd64- libsystemd0:i386- | 00:09 |
| gnarface | trick is you have to specify for multi-arch too | 00:09 |
| gnarface | if i specify that, it drops the removes list down to just liblz4-1:i386 | 00:10 |
| gnarface | which... i guess nothing but libsystemd0:i386 must have been using? | 00:10 |
| gnarface | no mention of this notation on the apt-get man page | 00:12 |
| gnarface | nemo, joerg thanks guys! | 00:13 |
| gnarface | brb | 00:13 |
| gnarface | qiot | 00:13 |
| mason | joerg: apt install foo bar- | 00:25 |
| mason | or apt --purge autoremove baz+ | 00:25 |
| mason | or variations thereof | 00:25 |
| mason | Oh, gnarface gave a better example but I missed it. | 00:26 |
| gnarface | alright, so far everything seems fine | 00:28 |
| gnarface | i know it's psychosomatic but the system even feels faster now :) | 00:31 |
| gnarface | please share this with the world: apt-get --no-install-recommends install libelogind-compat:amd64+ libelogind-compat:i386+ libelogind0:amd64+ libelogind0:i386+ libsystemd0:amd64- libsystemd0:i386- | 00:34 |
| mason | gnarface: I believe you can even wildcard the arch. | 00:42 |
| gnarface | mason: really? neat | 00:43 |
| gnarface | i'll probably forget that detail by the next time it comes up | 00:43 |
| * joerg occasionally creates aliases for just remembering stuff like that. sort of post-it note | 00:44 | |
| rwp | joerg, To be clear my monday morning quarterbacking was not directed at you but at the other comments such as Lennart's that the distros should not have used libsystemd0 for what could have been patched in as a simpler socket write. You and I were talking about other people's comments in those threads. Lennart creates libsystemd0 and tells everyone to use it. Then chastises people for using it after a security event exposes the | 00:52 |
| rwp | problematic nature of it. | 00:52 |
| joerg | rwp: aah sorry then | 00:53 |
| joerg | yes, O 100% agree | 00:53 |
| joerg | I even | 00:53 |
| rwp | joerg, I was not implying that you were in the source side of the problem! But only that you and I were on opposite sides of the debate as we were discussing it. | 00:55 |
| joerg | I don't think so, I'm just concerned about our message we publish regarding systemd should not put too much emphasis on this particular aspect of linking in lobsystemd for sd_notify() as that's a slippery slope to an argument if that's really systemd's fault. I agree that it is, at least 95%, but the last 5% might get us into a weird discussion with the systemd-cabal that won't gain us credibility | 01:02 |
| debdog | nice typo! hallelujah | 01:06 |
| rwp | I see several problems this event will create moving forward. For one it will be harder to trust people. Definitely harder to trust people who you don't know in person. That's a physical problem of geography for many contributors. | 01:08 |
| joerg | no doubt, yes | 01:08 |
| djph | "this event" being ... xz? or systemd? | 01:08 |
| rwp | djph, The combined exploit of sshd-systemd-xz which in combination is used to create a backdoor. | 01:09 |
| djph | wait, it's more than just xzutils? | 01:09 |
| rwp | It's a brilliant exploit because it chains together things that are so far apart no one would consider the connection of them. | 01:09 |
| djph | I mean, like I was reading up on it and got the impression thre were a few parts but ... wow | 01:10 |
| rwp | I don't think anyone knows the full extent yet. There are parts of the xz changes that are not known why they are done yet and may be part of another exploit either active or planned. | 01:10 |
| djph | :( | 01:10 |
| rwp | djph, I see we are in #devuan so I will see you in #devuan-offtopic for more discussion. | 01:10 |
| djph | ... yeah I just noticed that myself :( oops | 01:11 |
| joerg | thanks :-) | 01:11 |
| justbosco | Hello guys, a question, why does Duvuan not have an LXDE desktop? | 02:36 |
| justbosco | I mean, it is not meant to be installed in an accessible way like Tasksel.It is not LXDE | 02:38 |
| debdog | justbosco: package task-lxde-desktop I am not certain about the installer, but IIRC there is an option there | 02:55 |
| Xenguy | gnarface, Thanks, re: VNC: it is strange that SSL is not turned on by default, but great to know that that is an option, so I'll investigate further. As someone pointed out, however, VNC may not exactly fulfill the requirement for desktop *sharing*, so I'll need to engage in some more research I imagine. Will report back here if I find any pearls along the way. | 02:55 |
| gnarface | justbosco: not everything can be a default install option, you can still easily add lxde afterwards, it's in the repos. | 02:55 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: VNC will definitely allow multiple logins with both interactive and non-interactive views | 02:59 |
| gnarface | ... though implementation details may vary | 02:59 |
| gnarface | (there's multiple VNC servers out there, they don't all have the same features) | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | gnarface, Okay, good to know, an important detail is that the desktop sharing is occurring between a windows system and a linux system | 03:01 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: the reference server+clients are definitely cross-platform, where i recall getting into issues is finding client/server pairs where the hardware graphical acceleration also works | 03:03 |
| Xenguy | The other party is proposing to use some proprietary desktop sharing application that is cross-platform, so if I am to propose an alternative FOSS approach, it needs to be cross-platform as well, and I would stay more simple than complex... more or less a turnkey type of solution, so that is what I am researching ATM. | 03:05 |
| Xenguy | s/stay/say | 03:06 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: well, it depends on how cross-platform it really has to be. if you are just using Windows->Linux, Linux has a native rdesktop client | 03:07 |
| gnarface | and, i've said it before, but performance-wise, nothing so far has beat Steam Remote Play for me here on this hardware, when it's working anyway (which just makes this whole statement even sadder) | 03:08 |
| gnarface | rdesktop - RDP client for Windows NT/2000 Terminal Server and Windows Servers | 03:08 |
| gnarface | ^ this could work | 03:08 |
| Xenguy | Yes, and that is another point I need to understand better as the other party did not seem keen on RDP (it may have been some security issue, but I would need to confirm that) | 03:08 |
| gnarface | oh, i'm sure RDP isn't secure, but it's also probably the thing that would be easiest and require the least extra software installed | 03:09 |
| gnarface | though, i also seem to recall something about color depth in the linux client only going up to 8bit | 03:09 |
| gnarface | that might have been a server-side thing or a bug that's since been fixed | 03:10 |
| Xenguy | I had just assumed RDP was secure, but apparently that may not be the case. This particular use case definitely requires a secure channel. | 03:10 |
| gnarface | another thing you might look into which i've heard of but not tried but has been spoken of favorably as a Steam Remote Play alternative is something called "Sushine" which i think is open source but not in the repos | 03:11 |
| gnarface | yea, here: https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine | 03:12 |
| gnarface | never tried it but supposedly it's even more performant than Steam, which means they definitely have to have hardware graphical acceleration | 03:12 |
| gnarface | https://app.lizardbyte.dev/Sunshine | 03:13 |
| Xenguy | Thanks for the tips, much appreciated | 03:13 |
| gnarface | i don't know if requiring Moonlight is a problem though, i think that's why i never tried it | 03:13 |
| onefang | Sunshine requires moonlight. Someone has a sense of humour. | 03:14 |
| Xenguy | That is quite drole, hahah | 03:19 |
| nietz | data41201: are you from Kentucky? | 04:50 |
| nietz | welcome! | 05:46 |
| golinux | Maybe cosmic rays explains the weirdness , , , | 17:21 |
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