| _ds_ | Ugh. Rotate option seems to have gone from some Xfce4 panel plugins in daedalus – specifically, sensors & system load | 15:32 |
|---|---|---|
| * _ds_ was expecting something to break, and this was it | 15:33 | |
| _ds_ | (those plugins are in a side panel – they'd be correctly oriented in a horizontal panel) | 15:35 |
| _ds_ | … ah, panel mode “deskbar” is what I wanted. | 16:19 |
| n4dir | I removed connman and installed network-manager, but it doesn't seem to have a gui. Searching i find nm-tray, network-manager-gnome and plasma-nm | 18:58 |
| n4dir | nm-try is for the panel, but if i click on it, will open a gui? Or do i want network-manager-gnome? | 18:58 |
| RhineDevil | I still have this problem | 19:04 |
| RhineDevil | Sometimes my router fucks up | 19:04 |
| RhineDevil | When that happens wifi is still available | 19:04 |
| RhineDevil | But no DHCP | 19:04 |
| RhineDevil | The router doesn't even answer to IP requests | 19:05 |
| RhineDevil | No idea of the problem neither where it is | 19:05 |
| RhineDevil | Point is NetworkManager doesn't detect it | 19:05 |
| RhineDevil | It should disconnect and retry | 19:06 |
| RhineDevil | But it doesn't | 19:06 |
| RhineDevil | And I have no idea on how to fix that | 19:06 |
| buZz | does NetworkManager work without systemd? TIL | 19:06 |
| n4dir | it does | 19:07 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: apparently it does? | 19:07 |
| buZz | never knew :) | 19:08 |
| RhineDevil | Also in the log I see daemons like ntpd or similar stuff TRYING to connect but obviously they cant | 19:08 |
| RhineDevil | And it's weird | 19:08 |
| buZz | but i've hated NetworkManager with a passion ever since they started breaking almost all uarts with that ModemManager | 19:08 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: sadly its the only stuff properly supported with plasma | 19:09 |
| buZz | oh yeah, i dont run window managers that require >100MB ram | 19:09 |
| RhineDevil | What are you running, on a commodore64? | 19:10 |
| RhineDevil | Don't get me started on how much the entire X11/Wayland etc video stack is just F****D | 19:10 |
| buZz | ? i just dont see a need | 19:10 |
| buZz | window manager is 'draw squares around my xterms' , not a Steam game :D | 19:10 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: putting it as a requirement just sounds strange | 19:10 |
| buZz | thats ok, i'm fine with sounding strange | 19:11 |
| buZz | or getting almost 100% of my ram to use | 19:11 |
| RhineDevil | >window manager is 'draw squares around my xterms' , not a Steam game :D | 19:11 |
| RhineDevil | And that's why noone uses *NIX if its not Apple | 19:11 |
| buZz | where no-one, is a lot of people? | 19:12 |
| buZz | i'm not running devuan to win a popularity contest :D | 19:12 |
| RhineDevil | I'm talking about general people who dont wanna pass their life fiddling with conffiles | 19:12 |
| RhineDevil | Yeah but that's not the point | 19:13 |
| buZz | why do i care about what anyone -else- wants? | 19:13 |
| RhineDevil | I'm just sayin that saying "works on my machine" doesn't mean it's good | 19:13 |
| buZz | ?? | 19:13 |
| RhineDevil | Did I say you should care? | 19:13 |
| buZz | eh :) | 19:14 |
| RhineDevil | >window manager is 'draw squares around my xterms' , not a Steam game :D | 19:14 |
| buZz | my deskxeon with 32GB ram -could- run fancy cpu hogging WMs just fine, i just dont like any of that | 19:14 |
| buZz | RhineDevil: yes, thats called a opinion, you dont have to agree | 19:14 |
| RhineDevil | Saying "it is like it is" isn't an argument | 19:14 |
| RhineDevil | True but opinions aren't all equal | 19:15 |
| n4dir | truth to be told: most WM's, if not all, are very low on ressources. It's the DE's which are not, and there not even all | 19:15 |
| RhineDevil | Nor they have all the same value | 19:15 |
| RhineDevil | n4dir: that's good they are the problem is in the protocol | 19:15 |
| RhineDevil | Wayland was supposed to be the X killer but it just introduced more problems, problems they dont wanna address | 19:16 |
| buZz | RhineDevil: opinions dont -HAVE- to be equal, thats the whole point of them | 19:17 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: exactly because they aren't equal in most cases they shouldn't be given the same value | 19:18 |
| buZz | this isnt making any sense | 19:18 |
| ___used | In a one party system, only approved opinions can be voiced... | 19:18 |
| buZz | 'i like blue' 'NO GREEN IS BETTER, this is why ppl run apple!' | 19:18 |
| RhineDevil | I don't think the opinions of a wehraboo or an historian are on the same level for example | 19:19 |
| RhineDevil | >'i like blue' 'NO GREEN IS BETTER, this is why ppl run apple!' | 19:19 |
| buZz | how about you try wpa-cli ? | 19:19 |
| RhineDevil | That's not what I said | 19:20 |
| buZz | instead of nm-cli ? | 19:20 |
| ___used | wehraboo is a strange word -- what are you trying to do really? | 19:20 |
| RhineDevil | How did you get the wpa-cli command if it isn't present in repo packages | 19:21 |
| RhineDevil | ___used: My point is that the fact that some of us are confortable with the linux desktop as is doesn't mean it is the right way or even the most preferrable | 19:22 |
| buZz | oh sorry, its wpa_cli , included in wpasupplicant | 19:22 |
| RhineDevil | I'm not saying it's wrong | 19:22 |
| buZz | RhineDevil: there is no 'right way' | 19:22 |
| RhineDevil | I'm just saying WHY do we have to take it as absolute? | 19:22 |
| buZz | linux is all about giving the user freedom | 19:22 |
| buZz | if YOU like plasma, go ahead | 19:23 |
| buZz | -i- dont | 19:23 |
| buZz | this isnt apple, there isnt 'one way and no others work'; | 19:23 |
| ___used | the freedom to run systemd or bsd currently | 19:23 |
| RhineDevil | Actually linux is about developing a kernel for big cloud companies outta here :) | 19:23 |
| * ___used nods | 19:23 | |
| * buZz nods off | 19:24 | |
| RhineDevil | > <buZz> RhineDevil: there is no 'right way' | 19:24 |
| RhineDevil | By saying "window manager is 'draw squares around my xterms' , not a Steam game :D" you did | 19:25 |
| buZz | RhineDevil: could you stop copypasting whole lines | 19:25 |
| RhineDevil | Sorry I don't know the polite method of citing previous text in these parts | 19:25 |
| buZz | you dont cite anything | 19:25 |
| buZz | its already on my screen | 19:26 |
| RhineDevil | :/ | 19:26 |
| buZz | so how is wpa_cli? | 19:28 |
| RhineDevil | Started wpa_cli and it's showing messages of what | 19:28 |
| RhineDevil | I think it's doing? | 19:28 |
| RhineDevil | It says it's scanning | 19:28 |
| buZz | did you see https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/network-configuration | 19:29 |
| RhineDevil | Will it prolly print out weird messages at the next malfunction? | 19:29 |
| RhineDevil | Will do ASAP | 19:29 |
| buZz | ooo i keep forgetting about 'connman' existing | 19:29 |
| buZz | maybe you could try that, its likely easier than wpa_cli | 19:29 |
| hiddener | any love for iwd? | 19:30 |
| hiddener | :D | 19:30 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: connman is another network manager, I'm ok with substituting nm only if it's properly supported by plasma | 19:31 |
| buZz | as i said, i dont have plasma | 19:32 |
| buZz | but, any -terminal- based wireless config tool should work fine in wayland or x11 or any wm or de | 19:32 |
| buZz | keep in mind that you dont want to run multiple managers for the same network interface :) they might get in a fight | 19:33 |
| RhineDevil | Mhh | 19:33 |
| RhineDevil | Seen it | 19:34 |
| RhineDevil | Connman is abt the same as networkmanager | 19:34 |
| RhineDevil | Does it start up scripts too? | 19:34 |
| RhineDevil | connman-ui says stuff like uhhh | 19:34 |
| RhineDevil | It is supported by anything except GNOME? | 19:34 |
| n4dir | RhineDevil: as fsmithred has added it to refracta, i assume at least xfce does support it | 19:35 |
| buZz | sounds good | 19:35 |
| RhineDevil | Meh I'll try connman | 19:41 |
| n4dir | he, fsmithred, said yesterday or the day before, he thinks about replacing connman with nm. He didn't say the reasons, or i didn't hear them | 19:41 |
| n4dir | "thinks about", so connman can't be that bad. | 19:41 |
| RhineDevil | Uninstalled connman and reinstalled nm at lightspeed | 19:51 |
| RhineDevil | connman ui looks straight-up made from Tito's Yugoslavia you can't even modify network preferences | 19:52 |
| n4dir | at least not Albania, whoever the leader was | 19:52 |
| RhineDevil | Or even, dunno, change connected network | 19:53 |
| RhineDevil | Why having an ui in first place at this point | 19:53 |
| RhineDevil | Just manage everything from cli! | 19:53 |
| buZz | i dont know, i suggested using the terminal | 19:53 |
| RhineDevil | Well I use nm-applet for setting interfaces | 19:54 |
| buZz | which part of that gui isnt working then? | 19:55 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: the ui just sets wifi on and off | 20:04 |
| RhineDevil | Doesn't let you modify interfaces or networks | 20:04 |
| RhineDevil | Doesn't let you access to networks | 20:04 |
| RhineDevil | On and off, that's all | 20:04 |
| buZz | have you tried rightclicking it? | 20:05 |
| buZz | i havent used nm in ages, but quite sure it can configure wifi normally | 20:05 |
| buZz | assuming you have the wifi drivers and firmware loaded :) | 20:05 |
| RhineDevil | Yeah I did | 20:06 |
| buZz | you could check the output of 'dmesg' to see if your wifi driver is loaded and if its loaded its firmware correctly | 20:11 |
| gnarface | dmesg |grep -i firmware | 20:13 |
| gnarface | definitely check that first. some wifi devices still have partial functionality without the firmware, which only serves to confuse testing more | 20:14 |
| ___used | is wicd dead dead? | 20:22 |
| ___used | ui not allowing settings sounds like back end daemon is not running, no? | 20:22 |
| buZz | ___used: wicd is python2 | 20:29 |
| buZz | so, pretty much | 20:29 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: it is loaded | 20:35 |
| buZz | both driver -and- firmware? | 20:36 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: I have firmware-nonfree-all installed, judge yourself | 20:36 |
| buZz | no, i ment , do you see it getting loaded in dmesg | 20:37 |
| RhineDevil | Session is too old for seeing it loaded in dmesg | 20:37 |
| buZz | you didnt reboot since installing that? | 20:37 |
| buZz | if you cant see its loaded, how do you know it happened then? | 20:38 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: more like I installed all firmware there was to install a long time ago | 20:38 |
| buZz | so you dont know if it loaded, ok | 20:38 |
| RhineDevil | Well that's true | 20:39 |
| RhineDevil | How do I check except dmesg | 20:39 |
| buZz | reboot and check dmesg again? :) | 20:40 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: without rebooting | 20:40 |
| buZz | read /var/log/dmesg* perhaps? | 20:40 |
| RhineDevil | It direct-loaded atheros firmware I guess that's the answer you asked | 20:41 |
| buZz | whats direct-loaded mean? | 20:42 |
| RhineDevil | Exactly what it says | 20:42 |
| RhineDevil | firmware: direct-loading firmware ar3k/AthrBT_0x01020200.dfu | 20:42 |
| buZz | you could use http://paste.debian.net/ to share the file | 20:42 |
| buZz | alright, that does sound good, but thats for bluetooth, not wifi | 20:42 |
| RhineDevil | No w8 that's for bluetooth | 20:42 |
| RhineDevil | firmware: direct-loading firmware ar3k/ramps_0x01020200_40.dfu | 20:43 |
| RhineDevil | Is that for wifi? | 20:43 |
| buZz | maybe? its just 1kb ? kinda small i think | 20:43 |
| RhineDevil | There are no messages about missing firmware anyway | 20:43 |
| n4dir | RhineDevil: apt-cache search for it results in atheros-firmware, so it looks like it | 20:43 |
| buZz | RhineDevil: and any messages from the wifi driver itself? | 20:44 |
| RhineDevil | Just the usual | 20:45 |
| RhineDevil | Setting firmware, registered new interface driver... that stuff | 20:46 |
| buZz | ok, and the interface name it gives itself matches what networkmanager sees in its logs? | 20:47 |
| RhineDevil | Maybe I found some lines | 20:47 |
| RhineDevil | Will paste them | 20:47 |
| buZz | i now kinda wonder, maybe they forgot to install wpa supplicant? | 20:58 |
| RhineDevil | Just found out something even more interesting | 21:18 |
| RhineDevil | After I startup zerotier-one my default route gets removed | 21:18 |
| RhineDevil | Why? For now only god knows | 21:19 |
| RhineDevil | So well no particular news that it says network not available, lol | 21:20 |
| buZz | i'd recommend getting your physical network to function before adding weird vpns | 21:42 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: it's an old stuff, probably that's the reason it didn't work in first place | 21:44 |
| buZz | so, it all works now, if you dont load the old stuff? | 21:45 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: I stopped zerotier-one and for now it seems it works properly | 21:56 |
| RhineDevil | It's been a documented issue with zerotier https://github.com/zerotier/ZeroTierOne/issues/1482 | 21:57 |
| RhineDevil | They apparently solved but it comes back sometimes, you can still see opened issues regarding routes override | 21:57 |
| buZz | that issue you linked is the literal reverse | 21:58 |
| buZz | its about -NOT- removing default rout | 21:58 |
| buZz | while your issue is that it removes default route | 21:58 |
| RhineDevil | Guess I didn't understand anything then | 21:59 |
| buZz | i dont know, why are you using zerotier to begin with? | 21:59 |
| RhineDevil | Because I don't know any other decent method of setting up a VLAN with UDP holepunching | 22:00 |
| buZz | oh you're using it -over- tor? O_o | 22:01 |
| RhineDevil | No? | 22:01 |
| buZz | then why do you need udp holepunching? | 22:01 |
| buZz | isnt your router administrated by yourself? | 22:01 |
| RhineDevil | VLAN as in Virtual LAN | 22:01 |
| buZz | yes i am aware | 22:02 |
| RhineDevil | My router having a VLAN would still rely on zerotier anyway | 22:02 |
| RhineDevil | If you manage to shovel it up in the OpenWRT image I bless you | 22:02 |
| RhineDevil | :) | 22:02 |
| buZz | your -ROUTER- ? O_o | 22:02 |
| buZz | why would your router -require- a vlan? | 22:03 |
| buZz | why isnt it just a router? | 22:03 |
| RhineDevil | It doesn't | 22:03 |
| RhineDevil | I just want to set a virtual network for playing online with friends? | 22:03 |
| buZz | so nothing at all to do with the router | 22:04 |
| RhineDevil | You brought in the router to begin with -_- | 22:04 |
| buZz | either way, your original problem has been solved | 22:04 |
| RhineDevil | Yeah true | 22:05 |
| buZz | maybe just apt install steam , and play games with your friends with that | 22:05 |
| buZz | ;) | 22:05 |
| RhineDevil | If they're not self-hosted you mean | 22:05 |
| RhineDevil | But what if the game is selfhosted? | 22:05 |
| buZz | steam supports that, its got selfhosting servers internally | 22:06 |
| RhineDevil | What if I have the game from gog? | 22:06 |
| buZz | no clue, ask gog? | 22:06 |
| RhineDevil | Gog means no steam, no achievements no DRM just the game and its network stack as its creators designed it | 22:07 |
| buZz | there's #steamlug irc channel on libera btw | 22:07 |
| buZz | i am aware what CD project is, yes | 22:07 |
| RhineDevil | What does this channel do? | 22:07 |
| buZz | old crazybytes resellers that legalized their operations when internet came | 22:07 |
| buZz | steam linux user group | 22:08 |
| buZz | its maybe the only irc channel i know about where people discuss gaming on linux | 22:08 |
| buZz | oh , well , #vronlinux too, but thats specific games | 22:08 |
| RhineDevil | Well more than gaming it's about a VLAN with holepunching | 22:08 |
| buZz | you dont need a vlan though | 22:09 |
| buZz | i assume you're playing tcp/ip games | 22:09 |
| buZz | not IPX :) | 22:09 |
| buZz | so you can just use a normal vpn | 22:09 |
| RhineDevil | Yeah sure but how do you even set up it | 22:09 |
| RhineDevil | I mean | 22:09 |
| RhineDevil | Either way you have to be reachable from the outer net | 22:10 |
| buZz | sure, but vps are cheap | 22:10 |
| RhineDevil | And the only way if natted & not IPv6 is through UDP holepunching | 22:10 |
| RhineDevil | Yeah but that is even cheaper cause it's free | 22:10 |
| RhineDevil | Also no credit card in the hands of someone | 22:10 |
| buZz | free and nonfunctional? | 22:11 |
| RhineDevil | Yes | 22:11 |
| buZz | nice | 22:11 |
| buZz | enjoy then :D | 22:11 |
| RhineDevil | Dunno was just askin if you knew alternatives besides hamachi and zerotier | 22:11 |
| buZz | openvpn, wireguard | 22:12 |
| RhineDevil | hamachi is a no no because I don't want weird proprietary blobs | 22:12 |
| buZz | you dont need a ethernet bridge, just tcpip | 22:12 |
| RhineDevil | They both need you to be reachable afaik | 22:12 |
| RhineDevil | And through a public ip | 22:12 |
| buZz | you have a public ip on your openwrt machine ;) | 22:13 |
| RhineDevil | Still don't get why internet operators don't just allow uPNP and NAT-PMP | 22:13 |
| RhineDevil | buZz: HAHAHA I WISH | 22:13 |
| buZz | uPNP isnt a ISP service, its for your own router | 22:13 |
| buZz | internal network | 22:13 |
| buZz | sony calls uPNP 'DLNA' to give you an idea of where its ment to exist | 22:14 |
| RhineDevil | ISPs have internal networks too | 22:14 |
| buZz | oh i guess, i never paid a non-cellphone ISP money for a connection without a IP | 22:14 |
| buZz | we're getting a new ISP at the hackerspace, 1 extra ipv4 is just 4 euro a month, insane | 22:15 |
| RhineDevil | I'm not this lucky, so for me, the only way out, is udp holepunching | 22:15 |
| buZz | or figure out which of your buddies -does- have a external ip and the aptitude to host a endpoint for openvpn or wireguard | 22:16 |
| * RhineDevil sighs | 22:16 | |
| buZz | either way, your wifi works | 22:20 |
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