libera/#devuan-dev/ Sunday, 2023-12-03

golinuxQuestion about the "banned packages list". Are they banned because there are insurmountable entanglements and they CAN'T be forked or because they aren't worth the effort.16:39
golinuxIOW is the metric technical or judgmental . . .16:40
LeePengolinux: which banned list are you asking about?16:51
golinuxLeePen: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt17:05
golinuxI didn't know that there was more than one list . . .17:06
LeePenThe actual banned list is just 'systemd, systemd-sysv, file-rc, reportbug-ng'17:08
LeePenThe list that you refer to is produced by amprolla as it recursively excludes anything else that has those as a dependency.17:10
LeePenOr as a result of the source being forked already.17:10
LeePenThe item in [] after the package explains why it is banned.17:11
LeePene.g apticron-systemd.[systemd]17:12
LeePenor bsdextrautils.[d1src:util-linux]17:12
LeePenActually reportbug-ng and file-rc have disappeared from Debian, so the basic banned list is just systemd and systemd-sysv.17:14
LeePenEverything else follows as a consequence.17:14
LeePenSo, technical.17:15
golinuxSo a hard dependency on 'systemd, systemd-sysv' is the reason.17:15
golinux? actually17:16
LeePenYes, either directly or indirectly.17:16
golinuxThank you. That answers a question asked on D1G.17:17
golinuxWell maybe more brought up in a roundabout way17:18
golinuxI will copy this conversation directly in response.17:18
masonIndirect dependencies are something I'm still wrapping my head around.20:42
masonLeePen: Is there an explanation suitable for mere mortals that describes https://sources.debian.org/src/apt/2.7.7/debian/control/#L45 in usable detail? I ran into it the last time I wanted to build stuff without the libsystemd0 dependency.20:44
LeePenSee dh_shlibdeps and dpkg-shlibdeps.20:49
LeePenBasically a hook to allow the shared libs required by executables to be declared as package dependencies.20:50
LeePenIf it is empty it is removed.20:50
LeePenSo it Just Works.20:51
LeePenDevuan's apt has no libsystemd0 dep.20:52
masonLeePen: Ah, is that newish then? I didn't realize.20:53
masonBut anyway, thank you for the pointers.20:53
LeePenNo, longstanding20:53
masonLeePen: Is it feasible to run Devuan with no libsystemd0 or libelogind0 then?20:54
masonLast time I spun up a new one I remember that still being an issue.20:54
LeePenIf you want a basic system, probably.20:55
masonAh, my memory is a bit hazy then: https://bpa.st/JFCA20:55
masonEither that or I haven't tried since moving that system to Daedalus.20:55
LeePenMy daily driver is now seatd, consolekit and sway.20:55
masonI'm not yet ready to embrace Wayland, but the other two are encouraging. :)20:56
masonI should look at why openssh-server still depends on libelogind0, especially given OpenSSH's origins.20:57
LeePenYes.20:57
LeePenDevuan's xorg no longer requires elogind either.20:58
masonThat particular server is my local package repository, so it's not as diverse as a workstation of course. There's probably more.20:58
masonOh, interesting.20:58
LeePenIt can use seatd as an alternative via libseat0.21:00

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