| altoid | Re: @LeePen - I fully agree that zeitgeist can be easy to avoid, I don't think that banning it would be a drastic measure as I consider it to be a very dangerous application to have in any system. The real problem is that, given the present situation, it would be a *time/effort expensive* measure for Devuan to implement. ie: several someones needed | 13:56 |
|---|---|---|
| altoid | as golinux says. | 13:56 |
| altoid | But make no mistake about it, zeitgeist is a menace which should not be taken lightly. | 13:57 |
| altoid | A thought: maybe implementing the ~% cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/zeitgeist fix out-of-the-box with a comment as to the motives for the block (with links to some Devuan page about it) could work. Doing that would then require the user, as root, to explicitly / purposely enable the installation of the zeigeist package. | 14:08 |
| onefang | Think it was me that said "several someones" and golinux repeated that for emphasis. | 15:32 |
| onefang | Though entirely possible we have both said it for different things, but that was the most recent. | 15:33 |
| fsmithred | I think we also would need to make a consious decision to ban something for reasons other than depending on systemd. | 15:42 |
| onefang | Agreed. | 15:52 |
| xrogaan | Daedalus: the network manager package got updated recently, and since then there's an issue at shutdown about a link not existing. | 17:11 |
| xrogaan | well, actually, it's because there is no existing connection. | 17:13 |
| xrogaan | (manually configured here) | 17:13 |
| xrogaan | purged it, I'll see if I still get the message on shutdown | 17:16 |
| altoid | Re: onefang - quite so. My bad. | 17:51 |
| altoid | Re: fsmithred - yes, you are quite right. But bear in mind (at least as I understand it) zeitgeist is a daemon that, up to now, keeps a log of all of the user's most important activity. I foresee that it is gearing up to monitor 100% of the user's activity. Running on *any* Linux system, there is no longer need for covertly installed malware to | 18:05 |
| altoid | know what the user is up to, all you need is some voluntarily / legitimately installed package to tap into it. zeitgeist is to log file creation and management what systemd is to the init system* in Linux -> * please excuse the lack of a proper definition but I'm sure you all get the idea. | 18:05 |
| onefang | Interesting, I just looked up zeitgeist in synaptic. No description, no dependencies, in section Unknown, no component, claims it's a 1 byte download. Same for -core, -datahub and -explorer. | 18:10 |
| altoid | Further on, the logical choice for the people behind* the developement of both zeitgeist and systemd would be to merge their respective codes. * I have read that Canonical sponsors zeigeist (?), as for systemd, I no longer have any doubts about MS being behind it. | 18:11 |
| onefang | Oh wait, might be coz I pinned it to -1. lol | 18:12 |
| altoid | Re: onefang - https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=zeitgeist-core=1.0.3-4 | 18:17 |
| altoid | Zeitgeist is a service which logs the user's activities and events (files | 18:18 |
| altoid | opened, websites visited, conversations held with other people, etc.) and | 18:18 |
| altoid | makes the relevant information available to other applications. | 18:18 |
| altoid | It serves as a comprehensive activity log and also makes it possible to | 18:18 |
| altoid | determine relationships between items based on usage patterns. | 18:18 |
| altoid | This package contains the main daemon (in its new Vala implementation, | 18:18 |
| altoid | codenamed "Bluebird"). It also includes the FTS (Full Text Search) | 18:18 |
| altoid | extension. | 18:18 |
| onefang | I know what it does, I was just poking at it in synaptic to see if synaptic had a way of banning it from my system, only to find out I already had. | 18:20 |
| altoid | OK. | 18:20 |
| * onefang bans some related packages. | 18:21 | |
| Xenguy | I'd say keep an eye on zeitgeist, it very much strikes me as bad news | 19:08 |
| Xenguy | No one running Linux *really* wants their OS spying on them (like Windows telemetry), do they? | 19:10 |
| Xenguy | On the contrary, I'm sure | 19:10 |
| xrogaan | last time I took a glance at zeitgeist, it was marked as feature complete and no longer maintained. | 19:13 |
| Xenguy | If it's dead in the water, that suits me fine | 19:14 |
| xrogaan | but that was when it was hosted on launchpad. | 19:14 |
| Xenguy | Someone mentioned a connection with Canonical,hrm | 19:15 |
| xrogaan | https://launchpad.net/zeitgeist-project | 19:16 |
| xrogaan | what I meant: https://answers.launchpad.net/gnome-activity-journal/+question/352522 | 19:17 |
| xrogaan | but apparently, freedesktop forked it https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/zeitgeist/zeitgeist/activity | 19:17 |
| Xenguy | Of course, it's the GNOME idiots again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_(free_software) | 19:19 |
| Xenguy | xrogaan: So is it actively developed at this point, or not? | 19:19 |
| xrogaan | seems to be | 19:19 |
| Xenguy | All the more reason to keep an eye on it then | 19:20 |
| xrogaan | or at least maintained | 19:20 |
| xrogaan | drop of python2 in favor of python3, fixing vala related issues, etc | 19:21 |
| xrogaan | Xenguy: to be honest, firefox is more detrimental to your privacy than zeigtgeist can be. | 19:24 |
| Xenguy | Why is that xrogaan , in 20 words or less? | 19:25 |
| xrogaan | The issue I have with it is my lack of understanding of its purpose. | 19:25 |
| xrogaan | Xenguy: firefox captures local telemetry then upload it to a remote server. | 19:25 |
| Xenguy | I don't really care about its originalpurpose, it is ripe for abuse | 19:25 |
| Xenguy | Thanks for the pro-tip | 19:26 |
| xrogaan | zeitgeist does capture telemetry, but it seems that its purpose is for your own usage. | 19:28 |
| Xenguy | Furthermore, GNOME has a track record of getting design absolutely wrong, why should this case be any different? | 19:28 |
| xrogaan | heh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 19:28 |
| Xenguy | Zeitgeist is purged on my systems, so I'm content, for now | 19:29 |
| altoid | RE: Xenguy - I did albeit with a (?). Here's the link to a post at Dev1: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8296#p8296 | 19:30 |
| xrogaan | ah | 19:31 |
| xrogaan | canonical was on the path of ads in the desktop space, weren't they? | 19:31 |
| xrogaan | maybe still is: https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/13/canonical_ubuntu_ad/ | 19:32 |
| xrogaan | so that explains it | 19:34 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!