libera/#devuan-dev/ Tuesday, 2023-02-21

JackFrostLeePen: https://git.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/glab.git/  I don't run gitea, but I think it's actually not bad.  codeberg.org is worth looking into as an alternative to github/etc.00:45
rrqor git.devuan.org of course00:50
JackFrostThe topic was gitlab as a terrible UI, gitea being better.  Codeberg is the only public generic FOSS host running gitea I know of.00:54
rrqor git.devuan.org of course00:54
rrqwell, that might not cover the "I know of" bit, I suppose00:57
JackFrostWell, it's distro specific...so no.00:58
rrqis it?00:59
brocashelmlet's just go back to sourceforge /s00:59
rrqI know Microsoft runs github; who runs codeberg?00:59
brocashelmhttps://docs.codeberg.org/getting-started/what-is-codeberg/#what-is-codeberg-e.v.%3F01:00
rrqwho are the people? .. "a registered non-profit association based in Berlin, Germany" doesn;t say much01:02
brocashelmyeah, it's not very clear01:02
brocashelmbut looks like they were originally known as teahub: https://blog.codeberg.org/codebergorg-launched.html01:03
brocashelmfound this for legal stuff: https://web.archive.org/web/20190418085357/https://codeberg.org/codeberg/org/src/branch/master/Imprint.md01:05
brocashelmstill a very "anonymous" org01:05
rrqI prefer knowing who (=people) but I'm a bit old and cynical01:07
rrqesp since github sold out01:07
brocashelmeven a username is better than nothing01:10
rrqclearly "hw" is the oldest registered user at codeberg01:18
rrqand I suppose https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/graph is a bit of a story about codeberg itself01:23
bgstack15i think codeberg is an independent org. But then, who knows if 90% of that indepent org are all employees of one particular place....01:41
rrqyeah, I prefer knowing which people are involved. But I agree with JackFrost that codeberg does seem interestig, if you don't want to keep your s/w at git.devuan.org for whatever reason,01:51
rrqgithub.com is of course not an option anymore01:53
brocashelmself-hosted gitea is what i'd vote for01:54
rrqthe more places, the better01:54
brocashelmi wouldn't object to sourceforge. it works well with my browsers01:54
brocashelmwith this skepticism in mind, i'd not trust codeberg01:55
rrqmmm that might be a bit "unfair"; maybe it just takes a little more effort to get to know them01:56
rrqheistant, yes, but distrusting sonds strong :)01:57
rrqu01:57
brocashelmfor me, companies/organizations are guilty until proven innocent :)01:59
brocashelmwouldn't be surprised if microsoft or another big corpo snatched them up down the road01:59
rrqI'm a bit simple-minded so I always want to think about the people; things like companies and organizations are just abstractions that poeple use, sometimes (too often) as a vehicle for be devious. "Think about the people, and follow the money".02:04
rrqre codeberg, there have not turned up any red flag of deviousness for me yet, although quite possibly it my be in the founder's long-term objective to have something to sell off in some future02:10
rrqmay02:10
rrqright now it looks like a reasonable aggregation place for FOSS02:10
rrqthat's just a personal opinion, btw.02:13
bb|hcbhttps://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/issues/2802:22
brocashelmhttps://codeberg.org/Codeberg-e.V./e.V.-Documents/src/branch/main/2021/Annual%20Report%202021.md <- page not found02:29
rrqhttps://blog.codeberg.org/category/letters-from-codeberg.html03:02
rrqthey seem to have fallen behind a little with the monthly reporting (not unusual fro non-profit ventures)03:03
bb|hcbi don't get what is the point behind looking into codeberg?03:16
rrqmy interest is to learn about who they are; that site came up at 2019 as an alternative git FOSS store, given that M$ took over github03:19
rrqwell not necessarily dependent events, but concurrent03:20
rrqbut you're wright, it should go to off-topic03:22
bgstack15I moved to gitlab when github got bought in circa 2019, yeah03:30
bgstack15I still use gitlab, but now I also self host my own web cgit03:46
plasma41I assume the spam reporting feature of debbugs isn't set up for bugs.devuan.org?03:59
plasma41I tried clicking the "this bug log contains spam" link on https://bugs.devuan.org/203 because it contains a blatantly obvious phishing email, but I simply got an HTTP 403 response.04:02
LeePenplasma41: probably not. I'll look into what is missing today.07:35
plasma41Sounds good. The fewer Libyan fortunes transferred through the bug tracker, the better.08:47
onefangI vote for self hosted cgit as well, and also put Devuan stuff on git.devuan.org.09:15
LeePenplasma41: I have worked out how to deal with spam in the BTS backend. #203 appears clean now.10:55
LeePenI will sort out the spam reporting now.10:56
tokafondohi all23:10
tokafondoI'm Claudio Sánchez, amateur devuan user23:10
tokafondoI'd like to create a complete devuan system, compiled from scratch for cpus with advanced instruction sets23:11
tokafondoit seems standard builds are compiled using the basic, generic options, to fit all kind of cpus23:11
tokafondobut I've read in several places that by using instructions found in more recent intel cpus, some gains in speed and performance can be obtained23:12
tokafondois there any place where I could read how to create a debian system from scratch, compiling the very basic structures of the system like the kernel, glibc and others?23:13
tokafondoa sort of "linux from scratch" but for debian.23:13
tokafondothanks23:14
hagbardThat is the case. As it is with all binary distros. You can build packages yourself, out of devuans source packages, but that is certainly not the main use case, and would require a lot work an tinkering, to compile the entire distro by yourself.23:14
clemens3for fully automated Linux From Scratch: http://techinvest.li/tinux/23:14
hagbardAn easy compromise would be to just compile the kernel, and use te usual binary packages for the remainder.23:15
hagbardIf you want a the entire system entirely from sratch compiled by yourself, LFS would be indeed the thing for you.23:15
tokafondoI had the idea of debootstrap --download-only a chimaera system, and then rebuilding the basic .deb files found in the apt archive folders, and then debootstrap --second-stage with them23:16
tokafondothe problem AFAIK with LFS is that it's too generic, not "debian compliant", or is it?23:17
clemens3maybe it is possible to install the base package management from debian/devuan on an lfs base23:18
clemens3and then voila23:18
clemens3i don't know how devuan gets packaged.. so someone is building it from scratch all23:18
tokafondothat's the thing... main developers must be using a recipe to create a devuan system for us to download23:20
tokafondoI don't think it's sorcery or magic. There should be several steps involved that once done, the proper  .deb files are obtained, to be used to install devuan23:21
fsmithredmost of the packages come from debian unchanged. We only fork the packages that require systemd.23:22
fsmithredso most of the sources would be at salsa.debian.org and ours would be at git.devuan.org23:23
fsmithredbut as mentioned, that would be a lot of work.23:24
fsmithredFor the kind of customization you want, gentoo or one of its derivatives might be a better choice.23:24
tokafondothanks. that, I understand. So I should be first asking to debian developers for things such as libc, binutils, init, bash and others, shouldn't I?23:24
fsmithredassuming you'd really get a significant improvement in performance23:24
fsmithredask them for what? You can clone their git repos and modify/build yourself23:25
brocashelmamprolla is convenient. it's different compared to artix, because arch sneaks in more systemd in their packages than debian does23:25
brocashelmso, the artix devs have to recompile everything on their repo, hence less packages23:25
plasma41tokafondo: You may want to checkout the apt-build package.23:26
tokafondoYes, cloning repos is the way to get sources. And there are several stages of building that must be taken, too.23:26
tokafondoThere is an intimate link between the compiler, the libraries used for building and the kernel itself, AFAIK23:27
tokafondothe libc version in chimaera is 2.31, isn't it?23:27
tokafondoand everything gets compiled against that version23:28
fsmithredyes 2.3123:28
tokafondoso the thing would be compiling libc using AVX, SSE, FMA... instructions available in more recent cpus, and then the rest of the system against that optimized libraries23:30
tokafondoI think that the way to test real performance gains would be creating a deXXan distro compiled from the same sources but with the instructions for the recent CPUS.23:31
tokafondoAnd that's why I ask.23:31
tokafondohttps://notes.ponderworthy.com/rebuild-glibc-optimized-for-your-cpu-in-debian-testing-as-a-local-package-version23:32
LeePenIt would be faster to build from the dsc files in the archive than cloning all the git repos23:32
LeePenSome don't even exist.23:32
LeePenSet a deb-src url in apt sources, update and then you can get any source you want23:34
tokafondoyes. I've started rebuilding glibc-2.31 with -march=westmere, following the instructions mentioned in the link above23:35
tokafondoI'm using GCC 9.3.023:35
tokafondowith G++ 9.3.023:36
tokafondoeverywhere I read "you upgrade libc6 and you will destroy your system" but what about "recompiling" it?23:36
brocashelmstill not recommended. i tried that with beowulf and it didn't work (needed glibc 2.29 for some programs at least)23:46
brocashelmif not for that, i most likely wouldn't have upgraded to chimaera or beyond23:46

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